Handwriting vs. typing: is the pen still mightier than the keyboard?

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/dec/16/cognitive-benefits-handwriting-decline-typing

by benbreen • 12 years ago

94 99 12 years ago

I think it is. Scientists all carry around laboratory notebooks that they write in by hand.

While I can type faster than I can write, if I observe something that I want to record for later consideration, it's a lot quicker for me to whip out my notebook and a pen, than to whip out my computer, log in, launch a text editor then save my document.

cwe• 12 years ago

Agreed. There's just something about the pen and paper right there, ready to go, always. Even on a phone, with the app open, you'll probably have to unlock the screen first, and tap or something to bring up the keyboard and start typing.

w1ntermute• 12 years ago

This assumes that you actually have a pen and paper with you at all times. I don't know about you, but there are a lot of times when I don't. Also, the amount of time it takes to unlock my phone's screen, open Evernote, and create a new note is actually less than that required to open my bag (if I have it with me), take out a notebook, open another compartment, take out a pen, close both compartments, open the notebook, uncap the pen, and start writing.

ytturbed• 12 years ago

Plus you'll likely still have access to it years later. And it will remain private.

CamperBob2• 12 years ago

Scientists all carry around laboratory notebooks that they write in by hand.

Sure, but certainly not in cursive.

refurb• 12 years ago

Scientists all carry around laboratory notebooks that they write in by hand.

Not to be overall pedantic, but hand written lab notebooks are being replaced by electronic versions. That changed (in private labs) started back in the early 2000's.

In fact, if electronic notebooks are available, scientists are usually encouraged to not write anything down by hand as it might interfere with IP claims.

Xcelerate4• 12 years ago

I can't stand writing. It's slow and it's messy, and I can't read a lot of other people's handwriting. I write about 30 words per minute and I type 167 wpm. Perhaps there are some cognitive benefits but I'm willing to give them up in exchange for the ease of getting my thoughts down quickly.

The only case that I still prefer handwriting is doing math. It's much easier for me to write out equations and "explore" things with pencil and paper over using a program. That said, I normally find that having something like Mathematica or a Julia notebook open in addition to pencil/paper is the best combination. One tool for drafting and thinking, and another tool for testing my ideas out.

ohquu• 12 years ago

What are you typing at 167 wpm? I played on typeracer.com and topped out around 130 wpm.

Xcelerate4• 12 years ago

10fastfingers.com. I was pretty proud of that run because I was 4/120,000 (I normally average about 142 wpm though). I think my Typeracer record is like 150-155 wpm but I don't play that as often.

Al-Khwarizmi• 12 years ago

I just tried, exactly 100 wpm. Wow, I thought I was a fast typer, but it seems I still have a way to go...

decasteve• 12 years ago

Although I still handwrite/sketch math I'm actively working on, I always LaTeX it afterwards.

As a math student I take typed notes into LaTeX (in emacs) during lectures. Even with the extra typing for symbols it's still faster for me to type and I'm only a ~120 wpm typist. The only thing I take down on paper are diagrams/figures.

fsiefken• 12 years ago

Yes, partly for this reason I switch to a mixture of voice, drawings and cursive for my personal diary. I also intend to use a variant of quickscript crossed with the phonetic alfabet and shorthand techniques for speed and semi-encryption (currently using the greek alphabet)

Jonovono• 12 years ago

Some things I wish:

- I could write on paper and have that sent to a document on the computer as if it was typed out. Something like those digital pens do, but actually ocr the text.

- To learn Stenography (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpv-Qb-dB6g)

sklogic• 12 years ago

LiveScribe, as far as I remember, actually do OCR the text.

gumby• 12 years ago

I have a livescribe 3 which does what you ask -- OCRs the handwriting. It's OK. The pen firmware is fantastic but the live scribe client software is painful. I hear the pen firmware was done by someone else. I carry it with me always. Despite the OCR capability, its main value is that my paper notebook is backed up.

And yes, I find typing effortless (I rarely touch the mouse/touchpad) but still, using a pen to take down notes or for musing is a crucial skill I use every day, and could not substitute the keyboard for.

adwf• 12 years ago

I've got two points to consider with this:

1) On a proper keyboard, I'm faster typing than writing. But on a "soft" keyboard like a tablet/phone (which I'm more likely to have with me), I'm much slower. This is probably due to a combination of inherent response times in the screen, and some increased degree of lag between keystrokes to aid touch detection.

2) When writing, I can easily jot down things like rough graphs to accompany data. Or rough layouts of a webpage to accompany the copy. I can quickly circle a block of text and draw an arrow to another block with a note about why they are linked. Whilst typing is faster for block text, I have yet to find an app that can even come remotely close to the ease of pen and paper for these quick sketches.

EXTRA: Not to mention the ease with which you can pass a sheet of paper to a colleague for them to read, markup edits, etc...

EXTRA 2: Plus it all works during a power cut ;)

sumo3• 12 years ago

I actually research this kind of thing a lot, Pen and paper is surely great, and passing it physically, and being offline are certainly its benefits.

https://collusionapp.com/ tries to solve the quick sketches and the sharing, which is the winnable battle, the fact that pen and paper is tangible can be won with tablets, but my company tried that, we made a pen and I thought it was good, but it didn't really stick. That might have been for a variety of confusing reasons though.

One thing though is that we are definitely getting closer, and I can at least attest that both hand writing and typing have their place, and the digital and real life hand writing also have their own special places.

ssivark• 12 years ago

The most crucial distinction where paper wins is that writing is a "nonlinear" process whereas typing with the tools we have today is "linear". You could use something like a mindmapping tool, but you're again constrained to a fairly rigid format rather than giving you the ease of switching. Eg: you can write down a bunch of things and draw arrows between them. Or draw a graph/sketch. Or draw a link between the thing you had on the first line and something related that came up towards the end of the page, etc. To me, that means that thinking on paper is much more free than typing, and one has available a space of a larger dimensionality, to represent one's ideas.

However fast one can type, the rigidity of typing is the biggest obstacle, imho. I do not think speed of typing-vs-writing ought to be a significant factor; I can think while I write, but not while I type (but that may be because I've written a lot, over decades, as a student growing up in India -- and nowhere near as much typing).

I've tried typing(laptop, phone, tablet), writing on a convertible tablet (Lenovo X230T and Xournal/linux) and paper is still the most usable, by far. Once I have something worked out on paper, I transfer the notes to the computer for storage -- either typed-up using markdown/Pandoc (since I use a lot of LaTeX math) or handwritten. Of late, I also occasionally use Google Keep for jotting down small things.

pbhjpbhj2• 12 years ago

I can think while I write, but not while I type //

To me handwriting is more rigid in that one can't rearrange thoughts without drawing big arrows and having lots of crossings out. But then I only type and don't hand-write so perhaps I've lost track of what I'm missing out on.

Do you touch type? I don't by the strictest definition but I don't look at the keyboard and can have a conversation whilst typing - I'm not even sure any more if I can hand-write and think on an alternate topic, but I can type as I internally oralise thoughts without having to consider the physical movement. I'm sure this is true for most people who can type without looking.

Whenever I'm thinking about something with visual creative elements or anything with maths/equations then I'll use pencil and paper but as my working life has moved away from that, except in doing pure sketches without text, then it's quite rare for me to sit down with a pad.

I've just finished doing a python course and it's the first time I've listened to lectures and not used pad & pencil for note taking, instead just using PyCharm and a python console for "notes" and "doodles".

niels_olson2• 12 years ago

I did a survey of my classmates' study habits in medical school. Two of the habits most strongly associated with good performance were taking hand-written notes and reviewing them. The worst habit was typing in class. I heard Clay Shirky has even banned screens in his lectures because he found a "second hand smoking" effect: the person next to the person with the laptop had poorer performance.

I think a major part of handwritten notes is that it does force you to select what you're actually going to write down, and that is an inherently synthetic activity. Synthetic activities lead to more effective memory formation.

sumo3• 12 years ago

Absolutely. Non-linear processes I think, is a crucial difference, your mind jumps around thoughts, perhaps even in parallel and so having a medium that lets you do that is important. It feels more natural, more free-form.

Interestingly, presenting and sharing your ideas should be done in a non linear way too. People like to drive their own learning and understanding; so when you share your idea with others you want to be able to: jump around, accept feedback and engage with their thought patterns, that are in fact non-linear.

andreastt• 12 years ago

I'm constantly bewildered by this notion that writing by hand is slow and thus bad, and that typing is fast and consequently good.

In my daily routine work as a programmer I find most of my work consists of thinking rather than writing. Or to twist the words a little: I don't think my typing impairs my creative ability, because the hard part of my job is thinking out the right solution. If you can't hold that thought in your head without typing the solution into your program quick enough to run and test it, perhaps you're not seeing patterns clearly.

As I work I constantly scribble notes on paper as I find it helps me think. When debugging a concrete problem, I find myself jotting down elements of the stack trace on paper so I can more easily retrace my steps. Concurrently I write down interesting things I come across that needs checking which I can return to when I'm done with my current line of thought.

Yet I'm fully aware I'm moving against the tide. I occasionally write longer pieces by hand several times a week, such as theories and findings. This helps me internalise patterns, solutions, and conclusions to interesting problems. Occasionally there are patterns and I can correlate good solutions to a problem to one I've solved in the past. But foremost it helps me _think_ better about the types of problems I'm trying to solve.

Programming is a creative discipline and not always about reapplying the same old patterns others have used before you. It's about craftsmanship and about learning the trade; about recognising those patterns and seeing new opportunity.

More to the point, my limitation isn't the speed at which I type things into my computer. The limitation is my brain not thinking fast enough.

Xcelerate4• 12 years ago

For me, it's not that handwriting is a bottleneck in getting my work done; it's that it's psychologically annoying.

For instance, I also get severely annoyed sitting at red lights or driving behind someone going 10 mph under the speed limit (I joke with people that the only thing that ever makes me angry is having a green light turn red right before I get to it). Is it really going to make that much of a difference in getting where I'm going? No, maybe 1-2 minutes top. But the mental anguish it causes is quite bothersome to me, and it's the same way with writing by hand.

taeric2• 12 years ago

I can hope you are merely invoking hyperbole. Otherwise... wow.

MichaelCrawford8• 12 years ago

I find that my own mental anguish is most severe when I expect something good, but am forced to do without.

That is, I have no problem going without food, even for days on end, if I choose to do so. It's unpleasant at first but I get used to it.

However if I am looking forward to a good meal, but cannot obtain it, say because I don't have the money, or I am late to an event where the food was all eaten up before I arrived, then I am really, really upset about it - even though I only go without food for a few hours.

nvader• 12 years ago

From your post I get the sense that you realise that your emotional response to impatience is out of proportion to the cause. If you would like to control that feeling of mental anguish, might I suggest you take up meditation?

I've found that regular practice of the Focussed Attention style of meditation does wonders for being able to rapidly dismantle my feelings of frustration and take control of my mental state when I'm "in the field", as it were.

pcmonk• 12 years ago

I see this argument come up all the time to argue against typing faster, learning a decent editor, and now typing vs writing. Like with you, the hardest part of my job, and also the most time-consuming, is thinking out the right solution. I draw different lessons from that than you do, though.

First, since thinking is the hardest part, it's important to eliminate as many distractions as possible. Having to break concentration because I'm writing/typing is very unhelpful. Writing or typing with poor typing skills breaks concentration for longer periods of time.

Second, a nontrivial part of "thinking" is actually reading code spread across multiple files. Since I use vim, typing speed helps me to quickly get to the sections of code that I need to review. This greatly speeds up the thinking process.

Of course, I definitely do write stuff out at times, and I find I can think very well with a whiteboard. These are mostly for things that need to be diagrammed out in two dimensions (which a lot of things do need to be).

MichaelCrawford8• 12 years ago

I have been puzzling over one specific GUI problem in my iOS App for several months. From time to time I try to write actual source code, only to find myself stymied. However I have continued to contemplate the problem this whole time.

I expect I have a solution readily at hand, that won't even be very difficult to implement. Quite likely it won't be more than 30 to 50 lines of code. However I would not have come up with those 30 to 50 lines if I had not spent three months just thinking about this particular problem.

niels_olson2• 12 years ago

When debugging ... I find myself jotting down elements of the stack trace on paper

Being self-taught, I cannot adequately convey my gratitude for this nugget of reality. Thank you a thousand times.

organsnyder• 12 years ago

I have a CS degree and interned at IBM, and it's a novel idea for me as well. I'll have to give it a try.

sumo3• 12 years ago

Agreed, as a programmer, you are constantly able to think faster than you can express yourself, and it certainly feels as though nothing you can do (not even typing) allows you to lay out your thoughts and play around with them does it justice. Some of my best memories and learnings were discovered on paper and pen while at my keyboard. And often we stick them up on the walls afterward to serve a as a reminder and reference.

One good example of this is state machines, sometimes there is just so much state to track in a system, your brain no longer than handle enough combinations, or dimensions.

I like to draw them out (which is why I started https://collusionapp.com), and then outsource some of the brain work to others by sharing it as well so they can help me with the confusing aspects of the states once I've mentally unloaded them onto the page.

I think drawing the thoughts out lets you then "forget" the entire context of the problem and allows your "mind space" to kind of focus on the sub-parts or details of the problem.

I just don't feel like ONLY text can solve that while we still have people like us who were brought up with pen and paper.

I really think the benefit of technology here over conventional handwriting is the ability to outsource thinking through sharing, which helps with not thinking fast enough as well as being able to deliver your message in a freeform and quick manner, especially with creative disciplines.

I think having super quick access is also important before you lose thoughts too, I guess having tabs open already kind of like blank paper is super useful.

spain• 12 years ago

I think both are valuable and I often scribble things if I'm working on something challenging. That said being able to write or type faster has its place because at the end of the day your program will require typing out in its entirety on a computer and nobody wants to do that by using an on-screen keyboard on their smartphone, even if the hardest part is coming up with the actual solution.

klibertp2• 12 years ago

Your style of work is of course OK, but I'd like to point out that it's not the only one possible.

For example I tend to experiment with code as soon as I think I know what a given task is about. I fire up the REPL, create a new file and start writing. This code is of course never meant to go into production: it's just a way of structuring my thoughts. Often I do this "prototyping" in a different language than the one used for the project: languages provide certain frameworks for solving problems and by using the correct one I can cut down on the amount of code I need to write to express my thoughts (it also makes it impossible to just git add a messy prototype to the project).

I also use pen and paper sometimes, only when the problem I'm facing is larger then a few pages of code. Rather than writing I'm drawing simplified diagrams and only write down the most important bullet points for the design. But even then I tend to write at least some code as soon as possible. I treat code as one of the best tools available to help my brain think.

So for me and people working in a similar way typing speed and a good editor are important. Especially because I write so much of a disposable, throwaway code. I'm not saying it's a better way of working, I just wanted to explain to you that it's not necessarily worse than your style.

SixSigma• 12 years ago

Do you keep a log of your experiments?

I found doing so improved both my ability to recall and I also planned ahead about what I was going to test / learn.

Drawing diagrams of process flow before coding, mapping code after bashing away, though of course there are tools that automate this, help me. Drawing and writing reflectively is different to doing.

hessenwolf• 12 years ago

Entirely as a result of my years of coding, I am an embarrassing typist. Super-quick touch-typing and rattly noises, but I live on the backspace key. I live so much on the backspace key, that I think it kills any efficiency.

I should probably play that zombie learn-to-type game or something for a while.

osteele• 12 years ago

Typing is faster than thinking, but not once you've figured out what you want to type.

My cadence is think;type;think;type. Replacing this by think;t-y-p-e;think;t-y-p-e (when I type with one hand, or on a tablet's virtual keyboard, or leaning over someone's keyboard instead of sitting or standing in front of one) is frustrating and breaks my flow.

Similarly, compiling may be faster than thinking, but a slow compiler breaks my concentration.

japhyr• 12 years ago

I definitely think more freely with pen and paper than when I'm sitting at a keyboard. I have no idea if this is innate, or because I grew up in the 70's and 80's and learned to write by hand. I do feel fortunate to have learned to write by hand at an early age, but also to feel totally at home in front of a keyboard.

I'm just about to finish writing my first book, and it's been really interesting to see which mode I use the most. I'd love to be able to write my initial draft at the keyboard, because it would make my work a lot easier. But often times I need to put my computer aside, take a stack of blank paper, and write out my initial draft by hand. I kept a journal for many years, including the year I spent living on a bicycle. I slept in a tent every night, and wrote in a journal by headlamp or candlelight every night for a year. I don't know if that's what cemented my dependence on writing by hand to express my thoughts clearly, or if it's human nature to think more clearly when writing by hand.

The same holds true for revising and editing. I do my best revision work by printing out a copy of what I'm working on, and marking it up with a pen and then entering those revisions. I can't edit well working on a screen.

This article was really interesting to me because I have a son who'll be four soon. I'd been assuming that I need to write by hand because that's how I learned to put my thoughts into writing. This article makes me want to teach him handwriting so he'll be able to choose between the two modes as well.

dnquark• 12 years ago

Phasing out cursive in favor of typing reflects an unfortunate reality in which the ability to bang out TPS reports is more important than writing a nice card to Grandma. But while I spend most waking hours at the keyboard, any creative process that involves translating thoughts into symbols is unsatisfying to me if keyboard is my _only_ input device.

I am excited about the shift to mobile computing partly because it forces us to come up with input paradigms that are more appropriate to the digital medium. My pipe dream is for inking on phones and tables to become ubiquitous. Between Samsung and Microsoft hardware, we are slowly inching in that direction. Now if I could only get off my ass and port Xournal to Android (I find myself living in a bizarro world where I fire up Linux mostly to take handwritten notes.)

myg204• 12 years ago

Haven't heard anyone mention taking notes on a voice recorder. I have never done it, but wonder if this is efficient or not.

As for pen vs keyboard, I'm definitely for the pen, specially when thinking. On a small page, I can start with words, switch to a diagram, putting few arrows here and there linking parts , put a formula easily, it's basically too hard to do that much on a computer (as quickly).

Although, after scribbling things, I usually put a clean version on file somewhere.

rdtsc• 12 years ago

The group that learned to write letters by hand were better at recognising them than the group that learned to type them on a computer.

I have noticed for the physical act of writing with a pen on paper concepts and diagrams helps me internalize and learn them more. There is some kind of an improved feedback mechanism of sorts. Than, say if I do it in an editor, mind mapping software, or some kind of diagram creating app.

When I program and design I always think with paper and pen (or whiteboard if in a group). A lot of it is not really "writing or typing" as in actaully writing code, but mostly it is scribbling blocks, arrows, labels. Maybe an API description.

For price + "user experience" ( here = responsiveness, latency ). Nothing compares to pen, paper or whiteboard and marker.

wallflower• 12 years ago

If you want to challenge yourself, I highly recommend learning visual note taking. The goal is not to do it at a level where you can show off - but to learn how to visually capture the themes and some details of what is being said.

http://www.danroam.com/the-back-of-the-napkin/

fsloth2• 12 years ago

A quote from the article: "...a paper published in April in the journal Psychological Science... claim that note-taking with a pen, rather than a laptop, gives students a better grasp of the subject."

I find it odd that when some praise handwriting as a great mental tool, others obviously consider this as a some sort of ... ailment?

I assure you, handwriting is not a symptom of slow typing speed, and it does not need to be remedied by typing faster.

With Vim I can touch type quite fast enough. But the typing speed is useless unless I can understand what I am supposed to write.

Writing on paper improves my thinking to a point where I'm obviously partially incapacitated when implementing algorithms if I don't have a pen and paper at hand. And this is no exaggeration, I've tried in the past to go long periods without paper.

There is a threshold in algorithmic complexity after which I cannot hold all the variables in my head that I need to work out the solution.

The paper and pen feels like giving me 3x amount the working memory and increased reasoning skills.

Maybe the act of handwriting stimulates more areas of the brain, thus creating more associations along the way?

ObviousScience• 12 years ago

I type rather quickly (fast enough that I can type faster than I can compose), but still prefer pen and paper when reasoning.

It's because the pen and paper mixes diagramming, text, and non-linear note taking in a completely different way.

There's just no good typing analog to drawing a box around something, and then an arrow to another boxed item with some notes next to the line about the relationship. There's no good typing analog to writing notes off to the side, and then notes on those notes, and arrows between them. (There are okay mouse analogs, but constantly shifting my hands from keyboard to mouse is fairly annoying; much more so than just writing.)

It's not that I can get a computer to do those things with various editors, but rather, that typing in the instructions to do them is fundamentally mentally different than actually doing the motions of the boxes and arrows by hand. (My pet theory is that my brain is using information about the tactile movements to store relationship information in a way that it doesn't understand for digital documents, but I am not a psychologist.)

This difference has nothing to do with typing speed, but rather, the nature of the input device you're using.

hvidgaard• 12 years ago

The main benefit in writing with pen and paper (to me), is the fact that I can write anywhere, make arrows, comments that doesn't disrupt reading the main part, and draw various very helpful graphics. I think I would have spend significantly more time to understand most of what I learned in CS if I only used a computer to take notes.

kondro• 12 years ago

I personally find the act of handwriting something helps me recall it later. I barely even read-back my handwritten notes because they become irrelevant almost the moment I write them down.

MichaelCrawford8• 12 years ago

When I was in school I found that I rarely read my notes after class, not even when studying for exams. However the act of writing notes helps me follow lectures.

fsloth2• 12 years ago

Related anecdote: Neil Gaiman writes his stories with a fountain pen (well, at least during the period 1994 - 2012):

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18071830

otoburb• 12 years ago

He still does[1].

[1] https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/545236792908451840

anw• 12 years ago

In an editorial published on 4 September 2013, the Los Angeles Times hailed a step forward. “States and schools shouldn’t cling to cursive based on the romantic idea that it’s a tradition, an art form or a basic skill whose disappearance would be a cultural tragedy. Of course, everyone needs to be able to write without computers, but longhand printing generally works fine […] Print is clearer and easier to read than script. For many, it’s easier to write and just about as fast.”

Not all hand writing is meant to just express a point. Some hand writing is also—by itself—an art form. I can easily draw a parallel between penmanship skills and something such as creative writing. An easy to write, and fast way of writing is akin to "Jon kills Joe. Jon marries Susan. The end." Easily written, fast, to the point. And entirely worthless unless you only want to convey the absolute minimum. A fluid style in writing can display nuances, such as which side the gradient leans, what letters have a flourish, or how round the letters are (and which ones aren't).

As a programmer, I need to physically draw and write out how an application and its input/output will all come together. Even something stupid such as a simple box with multiple arrows coming in and out of it can have a big meaning. On paper, it looks like a few lines. But it represents what I actually am thinking about; and putting the pen to paper helps create an extension of my own thoughts, and allows me to move on in my head to further down the problem.

I have tried using text files to keep track of this information, but it can not contain the same meaning for me. Lines of text can change, and the visual representation is foreign, compared to something like my own hand writing and drawings. Even tablets aren't the same. The feeling of ink spilling out has an ephemeral high that is given, where a finger or touch-pen to a tablet just doesn't produce the same kind of feeling or relationship.

It may be an upbringing thing, though. I had been taught in a private school that pushed writing and penmanship from a young age. Any rough drafts had to be hand-written, and it wasn't until the final draft that we were allowed to type. Math problems as well had to be worked out by hand on paper, and calculators were not allowed until we reached pre-calc and geometry. I can see the point of view from someone coming up in a computer-only schooling, and how they might be more comfortable in using a keyboard to express their thoughts, though.

When learning a foreign language, I've found actually writing the words and characters out have a tremendous impact in helping me remember them later on. This is especially true for something like Japanese or Chinese, where I retrace which radical starts the character, and the order in which they go. For someone native to these languages, it may not be as big a deal due to the daily usage. However, it also seems some youths in Asia are forgetting the actual writing of some kanji/hanzi due the convenience of computers[1]. So now we can recognize a kanji and know its meaning, but knowing the kanji and being able to write it without aid may be more difficult.

[1] http://www.tofugu.com/2010/08/27/kanji-amnesia-and-why-its-o...

aluhut• 12 years ago

As a lefty who was forced to write with my right hand because of some superstitions, I won't look back. Never. I will always prefer the key before the pen.

Using a pen to write caused a trauma I tried to turn into something useful by learning to write with my left hand. It ended up nice. I have two different styles now but I'll never be as fast as with my right hand because there are not enough chances to train it in real life (and no, I'll never fill sheets of paper with pointless words just for the sake of it again!).

I think (and hope) we'll pass the point where we'll have to write at all and I see the touch screen example not really as a development. I haven't seen anybody use that feature. Most will just pop up the keyboard and type using their trained routine that is so much faster. And everybody can read it...The possibility to write on a touch pad is a salute to pen & paper. Signing is the only really advantage we get from it and that can be solved also. I think the future is in talk (how about eye tracking?) and further on in brain interfaces. Moving a pen will of course still be there then. Like people riding horses today. Maybe my semi-readable writing style will become art then...

kruczek• 12 years ago

Operating a keyboard is not the same at all: all you have to do is press the right key.

Well, that's quite a biased notion. I could as well just say that operating a pen is just pressing it against the paper, while using a keyboard means a lot more: proper alignment of fingers on the home row, learning which finger should be used for which keys, etc.

stinos• 12 years ago

True, but proper cursive writing requires much finer motor skills then hitting keys on your a typical keyboard.

Btw a couple of years ago I noticed I couldn't properly write cursive anymore. Quite a terrifying experience really, finding out a skill I pretty much mastered was now fading away. Due to the rise of the keyboard and a job which made me usually only write diagrams and capitals. So I devoted myself to learning it again and after a couple of weeks I was back at the same level I was in engineering school. Now I really don't care if a pen is mightier than a keyboard, or faster, or better in any way (if it even is). It's just that I consider it another skill, just like typing, or just woodworking, whatnot, and trying to master a skill is what some humans instinctively do.

olefoo• 12 years ago

I'm kind of surprised that the popularity of tablets hasn't enabled a resurgence of calligraphy. I mean tablets are ideal for practicing calligraphy. You draw your shapes and if they aren't good, don't have rhythm and don't sing; erase and start over.

Pamar• 12 years ago

Except that on most tablets and with most "styli" your penmanship does not really work. Most calligraphy effects depend on two elements: how much pressure you apply, and how fast you move on paper (this is especially true for Eastern calligraphy, but I suppose it holds for western styles, too)... pressure requires an expensive stylus, and a tablet that can interact with it (usually by Bluetooth) so it requires quite an investment (a cheap fountain pen will cost you 1/20th of it probably, a good roller gel pen would cost even less).

About the speed, I suppose it's less of a problem than pressure, but low-cost tablets would probably struggle with that, too.

leni536• 12 years ago

One is not replaceable with the other. For typing out pure English text typing could be faster. However for writing equations even with the maddest LaTeX skills you are far behind from handwriting. Also it's quite impossible for me to replace pen and throwaway papers for thinking (I know, poor forests) with anything computer related. Even for consulting with my supervisor a blackboard and handwriting is essential.

KaiserPro3• 12 years ago

Handwriting is only good if you can actually read your own handwriting.

My handwriting is shit. Terrible. Infact it is so bad I almost failed school.

At the age of 5 I was told by various authority figures that I was thick because I couldn't write. I vividly remember being told that some people have dyslexia, and that why they can't write, however I'm just slow, and that I'll have to just try harder.

Fortunately my mother decided that this was bollocks and forced the school to actually try. All through first, middle and high school my handwriting held me back. It is exceeding tedious to have all the correct answers but not be able to express them in a written format, the only format that gets you marks. When I was choosing my GCSEs at the age of 14, I had to weight up my potential career choices for someone who appears illiterate, and had a very high chance of leaving school at 16 with no qualifications. (the standard thing to do in my situation is to only do maths, a single science and English).

Fortunately my school was progressive and decided to try giving me an apple eMate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMate_300). This literally changed my life.

It was the beginning of me realising that perhaps I wasn't a failure, and that I might be able to actually achieve something other than living in the family home.

I have a house, a wife, child and a first class degree. All of which would not have been possible without typing.

So the next time someone says that typing is inferior to hand writing, and that its very simple to write at the speed of thought, have some empathy for the legions of people that cannot write for shit.

KaiserPro3• 12 years ago

The common thread I see here is that programming is about thinking. Yes, yes it is. however to be a good programmer you need to communicate your ideas. That means updating tickets.

This means getting my ideas out onto the page as quickly as I can. More importantly, in a form that can be understood effectively by others.

stefanix2• 12 years ago

Handwriting by itself can help learning. It's not necessary to ever read the notes again. The questions is rather are there better alternatives on a computer/typing.

duncanawoods• 12 years ago

Out of curiosity, why do you think your handwriting is so bad? Motor skills or something cognitive? E.g. can you draw, solder, sculpt?

Do you believe its a trade-off with a different type of skill that you have as a particular strength?

Mine tends to vary. Occasionally its beautiful, mostly its average and sometimes its scrawl no matter the effort. I'm not sure about the mechanism behind the difference.

KaiserPro3• 12 years ago

My fine motor skills are "unrefined" shall we say. My drawing is equally rubbish, soldering is good though (surface mount and everything!)

the label that was finally attached was dysgraphia. However any skill that I learned after the age of about 16 is largely unaffected. I learnt drumming from 16, and fencing at 19, and there is no problem there, however tennis I fail horribly at, lacrosse I'm ok at.

I have a journal that I draw in, however its a real effort to write legibly. Its terribly frustrating to write long words so I sort of scribble the intermediate letters.

makeset• 12 years ago

You were lucky. I also almost failed school, 7th grade when they introduced a mandatory handwriting class. As a remedial project, I had to spend that summer copying down encyclopedia pages in cursive, instead of working on my programming projects. My fine motor skills are great though, I just dislike handwriting with a passion.

stefanix2• 12 years ago

This article is full of bogus arguments about the limitations and rigid nature of word processors. Nobody stops you from using Inkscape, iPython Notebooks, or some other app for your scripts and get creative with your notes.

Certainly handwriting notes helps memorization but so does any other active participation. Personally I found coding little models and simulations about the subject matter far superior to handwriting notes. Maybe latter is not always compatible with the pace of the curriculum but this may only suggest the curriculum is designed for students handwriting along.

cafard• 12 years ago

I learned cursive many years ago, and Handwriting was a reliable C- (or maybe D) for me during most of the primary grades. I can write a legible hand now, but find that I use cursive for Christmas cards and notes of condolence. I do take notes with pen and notebook, but generally not in cursive. If a genie showed up offering only one of clearer cursive or better typing, I'd choose the latter.

KateGladstone• 12 years ago

An alternative to genies: http://www.HandwritingThatWorks.com

Htsthbjig• 12 years ago

I use handwriting a lot, on tablets.

Handwriting lets you express in an artistic way, in some ways it is like voice, as it let's you use nuances.

We use mindmaps a lot, and graphs and drawings, storyboards. They are very powerful tools for communicating with other humans.

Text alone is so rigid, rational, absent of emotions.

(normal)Keyboards are very slow, if what you want is velocity, learn stenography.

icantthinkofone• 12 years ago

On the Tonight Show with Jay Leno, years ago, they had a contest between a ham radio operator using Morse code and a 20-something texting to his friend. Morse code was faster.

Therefore, I propose we all exchange texting for Morse code.

normloman2• 12 years ago

What a false dichotomy. Nobody's saying we should stop teaching kids to write. We're just not teaching them cursive. If writing by hand helps kids learn to read, they will still receive these benefits as they learn to write in print.

Does anyone know of a school that doesn't teach print anymore?

ernesth• 12 years ago

Finland has chosen to not teach handwriting anymore, teaching typing instead. http://thelearnersway.net/ideas/2014/12/12/handwriting-vs-ty...

It is not just cursive versus block letters (which is not very important) but really should handwriting still be taught.

normloman2• 12 years ago

But in the first line:

"Finland recently made the news for its decision to shift away from a focus on handwriting. Beginning in 2016 students will not be required to learn cursive handwriting and instead will be taught typing skills."

So again, this is a school system ditching cursive. Not handwriting.

I disagree that cursive vs block letters is not important. In the past schools have taught both. But as typing replaces writing for long texts, cursive has become obsolete. Yet I still find many uses for block lettering. Let's teach block, and ditch cursive for typing instruction.

bane• 12 years ago

Depends on the keyboard?

Screen-input devices like phones and tablets really are lousy keyboards. I get unbelievably better work done with my Note 3 and Shield Tablet then by poking away at a fussy keyboard.

But for sitting at my desk or on my laptop, the keyboard is far superior for most things. So it depends.

nathanb2• 12 years ago

I hate it that there's such a large dichotomy between typing and handwriting.

I hand-write stuff all the time. Not because I'm a doddering fossil or because I'm a luddite or anything like that...I find that hand-writing notes from class helps me remember them better, and hand-writing letters and cards gives a much more personal touch.

But then I have all these sheafs of dead trees that I have to deal with. I need to make sure I have my notebook if I think I'm going to take notes. And afterwards, if I think "I took a class...maybe three months ago? Four? How far back in this notebook was that? Is this even in the same notebook?" Nothing is searchable.

I've looked into Evernote, modnotebook, and a few other solutions (including a fancy smartpen-and-paper combo that's supposed to read and digitize my writing), none of which actually work for me. Sometimes it's just that my tiny, illegible scribblings are incomprehensible to OCR software, and sometimes it's that the "solution" involves changing my workflow in a way that makes it not work for me anymore.

Microsoft have tried to solve this problem a few times (Windows for Pen Computing, anybody? OneNote?). Others have taken a stab at it too. I'm not at all close to the right answer myself; I only know that everything I've seen so far has not been it.

I bet this is one of those problems that, if you could solve it in the right way, you would legitimately change the world.

grimman3• 12 years ago

One of the best things I did personally was to overhaul my shitty handwriting into something I'm actually happy with, and isn't just "how things panned out".

I'm saying this because doing such a thing, in your case, could very well turn out to work towards making your handwriting tech compatible as well, thus eliminating that hurdle. Win-win, really.

Edit: As a further advantage, I actively think of the way I write and incrementally improve upon certain letters for efficiency and legibility. Pardon me for tooting my horn so vigorously. XD

godDLL• 12 years ago

Could you please post an example of your handwriting?

allengeorge• 12 years ago

I must have missed the memo - at what point did writing become equated with being a doddering fossil or luddite? :-)

(Not that you were implying either)

tboyd474• 12 years ago

“cursive” writing – in which the pen is not raised between each character – has been dropped from the Common Core Curriculum Standards, shared by all states. Since 2013 American children have been required to learn how to use a keyboard and write in print.

I'm sorry. This is so ludicrous. If you can't write legibly unless you're using a computer, how can you be called literate?

And don't come back and say, "it's perfectly fine for them to use print." I attended public school myself, learned to write cursive in the 3rd grade, and never used it again. I thought my natural printing style was good enough, to the point where, to this day, I still sign my name in the jagged, chopped-up, pseudo-cursive printing style that I invented in 4th grade, and only I can read.

Now, I'm a person who loves to listen to classes and take notes with a pen. About 6 months ago, I looked at the piles of jumbled-up notebooks in my closet and was horrified at the chicken scratch on it. I could barely make sense of it. I might as well have not even been taking notes. So I decided to try cursive again. Now, I refuse to print anything unless I have to. Cursive is so much easier, so much faster, so much more legible, so much neater. I simply can't believe I didn't use it for 20 years of my life. People always tell me how good my handwriting is now.

Maybe some people came out of grade school with a neater printing style than I did, but I really, really doubt they can keep that neatness while writing as quickly as they WOULD be if they were using cursive. I would really like to know what the standards people were thinking when they made this decision.

viewer52• 12 years ago

And don't come back and say, "it's perfectly fine for them to use print."

I'm going to do exactly that. You having garbage print handwriting and pretty cursive hardly means that everyone is the same way. With the lack of cursive practice that most people get, you're much more likely to find someone with legibile printed handwriting than legible cursive.

If you can't write legibly unless you're using a computer, how can you be called literate?

How can you even say this, and then go on to say "About 6 months ago, I looked at the piles of jumbled-up notebooks in my closet and was horrified at the chicken scratch on it. I could barely make sense of it. I might as well have not even been taking notes." ?

tboyd474• 12 years ago

I can say that because I don't consider myself to have truly been literate until 6 months ago, when I started using cursive. If I had written a letter to someone the way I usually wrote, they wouldn't have been able to read it if they tried. And I considered my own writing back then to be pretty okay, because I made it all the way through high school and college with it. Why all my teachers allowed me to write like that is a mystery to me.

I'm able to say this stuff because I spent about 20 years of my life not using cursive at all, filling whole notebooks with print, then suddenly using it and filling notebooks with cursive. So the difference is very clear to me.

Edit: And plus, you missed the whole second part of my comment where I said that even if they can print neatly, they certainly can't do it quickly, so it's still not as good as cursive in that regard.

Someone12342• 12 years ago

Now, I refuse to print anything unless I have to. Cursive is so much easier, so much faster, so much more legible, so much neater.

I respectfully disagree. As someone who has had the "pleasure" of trying to grade college level assignments from best to worst: typed, printed, and then cursive as a distant last.

Cursive is faster to write, but it being more legible and neater is debatable. Obviously it varies based on who wrote the cursive or print, but broadly speaking print is a lot more consistent between individuals than cursive is.

A lot of doctor scripts now need to be printed, because cursive caused too many enquiries/bounces and incorrect prescriptions. Although bad hand-writing often comes up when the talk of electronic patient records is discussed/promoted.

Cursive's only real benefit is speed. Maybe someone could argue that it is visually "prettier" to look at (I'd agree). But in terms of productivity speed is the only main draw.

tboyd474• 12 years ago

I appreciate the respectful counterpoint. I don't mean disrespect for the other side of the debate either. It's hyperbole -- so I don't understand why I'm being downvoted for bringing a legitimate point.

I think you and the other commenter are missing my point. Like all languages that use the Roman alphabet, English has a printed form and a scripted form. It seems they're going to only teach one of the two, and for what? Typing? Typing is only useful if you use a computer, and writing is part of basic literacy.

Don't get me wrong -- I am happy I know how to type. But I'm also happy I know how to write cursive. I don't understand what they're adding to the curriculum that's so important that they are dropping cursive.

Perhaps you had a hard time reading the cursive papers, and that's understandable. But if their papers were that messy, then it seems to me that the solution is to spend more time on perfecting their cursive -- not throwing up our hands and eliminating script entirely from the curriculum.

gdilla• 12 years ago

Funny, just got an email from my 4y/o's montessori school explaining why they start with cursive!

"It is commonly asked why children learn cursive writing instead of print in Montessori classrooms. From a practical point of view, it is thought that very young children's scribbles and early drawings are flowing and circular, more like cursive writing; making it more natural to learn first. At the Casa level, children love to repeat things making it a good time to practice penmanship. Given the distinct shape of each cursive letter, there is less confusion and less tendency to reverse letters such as b, d, p, and q. In printing there can be a tendency to mix upper and lower case letters together (e.g. CaNada,) which does not usually happen with cursive letters. Cursive also seems to be a more efficient way of writing since the letters are joined together.

Another reason stems from the fact that in Montessori schools children write before they read. In traditional schools, children in the first years of school are learning to read and write simultaneously and can be confused if they are learning to write in cursive and read in print. In Montessori, when the child is three and four years old, he is learning how to 'write'. He learns the sounds the letters make, learns to recognize them and learns how to form them. Once he knows the sounds, he can put sounds together to write words with the Movable Alphabet (cut out cursive letters that can be moved about freely and combined to make words) and eventually, with pencil and paper. For children who come to school knowing the alphabet names associated to print letters, it helps that the cursive letters look different when they learn the sounds of the letters. As a further step, children learn to read. When this happens they read print letters. Once children know the cursive letters, they are usually able to easily recognize the printed letters. So, they have the advantage over children who have learned to recognize print first and do not necessarily recognize cursive letters."

UhUhUhUh• 12 years ago

Typing just adds another level to writing. For me it's like a check function that spots flow inconsistencies or brings up better choices of words, whereas the handwriting feels "organic". There is a more archaic, immediate, sensual sensori-motor connection between the ideas and the output. That's the type of connection that cursive consolidates (which is why I think it's priceless to teach kids cursive vs. script). Having learned to type on a typewriter (!) I see a huge difference in the way ideas flow due to the way word-processors have evolved. Maybe speed has something to do with this but I'm not sure. Using both definitely enriches writing.

eveningcoffee• 12 years ago

What? Are you saying that writing by hand is not taught in US any more?

Are you telling me that American children are cut off from a most basic and easily affordable ability to express their thoughts where only things necessary are pen and paper?

Do I miss something?

Handwriting vs. typing: is the pen still mightier than the keyboard?

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