Vinyl record sales hit 18-year high

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30216638

by sjcsjc • 12 years ago

51 61 12 years ago

bbc.co.uk

Although I wouldn't necessarily call it a "hipster thing," I agree with the idea of vinyl as an "antidote to the own-nothing trend."

To me, the transition between vinyl and purely digital music is similar to the transition from paper books to ebooks, music just had more transitional states. I think of vinyls as the paper books of music. Sure, they take up more space, but there is just something about the feel of it that makes a difference.

mrottenkolber3• 12 years ago

I handle vinyl every week (DJ). Yes its a convenient format, the sound might be warm. I mostly like vinyl because its half of its own playback device. As a DJ its definitely convenient to be like "oh I spin this thing and it plays whatever the needle is on". Vinyl makes for a very nice percussion instrument.

But guys, the worst thing to have when you are moving or there is a flood or you are broke is vinyl. It's heavy, it degrades (in theory it should last, but in practice...), it sells bad. Once you have a dedicated room for your vinyl collection I will believe you when you say you like the format.

Imho the future of vinyl should be a "dubplate"-esque existence. Press them to play them, throw em out when you no longer need it. A consumption good. Collecting vinyl is insane, but making use of it is nice. Play it till its dirty and then get rid of it. I need none of the romance that goes with it.

I forgot to say: There are genres which rely on vinyl for archival purposes. That's right, we don't have backups. We need a grand plan for safe keeping past music. There is so much history going away for a fiver... save whats on the vinyl!

digi_owl• 12 years ago

I need none of the romance that goes with it.

Could be be looking at a second romantic movement?

niklasni12• 12 years ago

I wonder how much old 90's jungle/dnb and other dance music is just gone because it only ever existed on vinyl. Such a shame to think about.

Paul_S• 12 years ago

I'm sure there's a 24 bit 96Khz rip from a pristine vinyl disc on what.

JonnieCache• 12 years ago

It's all still out there. You will enjoy http://blogtotheoldskool.com

Weep for the tunes that were never even pressed in the first place though, those definitely aren't on any private tracker.

TBF weaponry of this kind shouldn't really be in the hands of the general public: https://soundcloud.com/dubplates-vinyls/dillinja-deep

mrottenkolber3• 12 years ago

UK's dance music from the 80s-90s is actually still available (see discogs.com). There are some rarities (like white labels from which there only were 50 copies in the first place) but besides from that the situation now is nice.

BUT, what's in 20 years from now? The vinyl does degrade (because I want to play that tune from 91, not just own it), and I can't RIP from vinyl because the sound is worthless (ironic how we cherish the vinyl sound while its completely useless for a recording).

What I am really scared about is all the DAT tapes going missing. A grand initiative should be started now, to archive FLAC copies of all master recordings.

huuu• 12 years ago

Fun fact: the Cassette is also making its comeback.

Some releases on Bandcamp: http://bandcamp.com/?g=all&s=top&f=cassette#discover

ssharp2• 12 years ago

Anyone complaining about vinyl being a hipster thing can now focus their attention on cassettes, which have no redeeming value outside of camp and irony.

Bad sound quality, no easy way to move between songs, tape degrades, mechanics of players can destroy the tape, etc. etc.

I have fond memories of cassettes -- traveling around with a portable recorder, recording songs off the radio, making mixes -- but they don't have much practical value these days.

MrJagil2• 12 years ago

"...which have no redeeming value outside of camp and irony"

NO! Wrong!

Sound quality: Cassettes can certainly sound amazing! Here's how to do a proper transfer: http://www.technofileonline.com/texts/howtotape.htm Further, the highs and lows get certain artefacts introduced through the format (tape compression, saturation) which can actually enhance the mix (smoothing out the highs, for instance).

But even more importantly, certain music is made for the format. Entire sub genres revolve around the low-fi aesthetic that tapes make available. Check out http://fangsandarrows.com

And here's another fact: They are CHEAP to make and FUN to own; thusly, if you run a small label or is independent, it is the perfect merchandise. Some people love the artwork (which inspires creativity through it's constraints), some people love the sound (compared to CDs for instance), some people like the quirkiness of having it on their window sill and other people just want to support the artist and don't have 20-40$ for an LP.

And practically, when you play a small gig, you can just throw 10-20 tapes in your bag, and you're ready to go (unlike with vinyl).

Please buy more cassettes!

(I do recognise all the problems associated with the format, but it has many positives in 2014 as well, as i hopefully made clear. This was all blood straight from my heart as i run a small cassette label: http://scalatapes.bandcamp.com (though the tapes themselves are still being printed as we speak))

hobo_mark• 12 years ago

And even MiniDisc http://datastream.bandcamp.com/album/stored-energies-technol...

midhir2• 12 years ago

I spent my early 20's pressing vinyl in the Czech Republic (anyone who ran a niche label will know the place :) and shipping it around the world.

To this day it's my favourite format. There's a ritual; going to the vinyl shelf or bag, taking it out the right way, placing the needle - it primes your mental state in a way that pointing and clicking just can't.

The margins were super tight on vinyl though. It cost more to produce, package and ship than CDs - and costs were compounded if you were trading with other labels. I quit when the music industry went into disarray. One day our French distributor cleared out their warehouse and we got a shipment and a note saying sorry - they were selling T-Shirts now.

But it seemed to me that vinyl would endure, maybe even grow as people looked for something more. I'm so glad to see it has!

nothrowaway• 12 years ago

If you don't mind saying, was that GZ by any chance? :)

midhir2• 12 years ago

Yup! :)

deutronium2• 12 years ago

Won't the audio that's pressed onto the vinyl be digitally mastered anyway these days?

laumars3• 12 years ago

Yes, but that's been the case for a decade or so already (longer for electronic music, unsurprisingly).

However, aside the tactile arguments, one of the properties of vinyl that many enthusiasts love is the "warmth" distortion that the medium adds - even from a digital master.

w0utert• 12 years ago

I wonder whether the same 'warmness' people associate with vinyl couldn't be reproduced just as easily using equalizer settings or post-processing of a digital source. The 'information' on a vinyl record is for all practical intents and purposes (ie: limits of the human hearing) the same as a digital copy of the same source at typical (CD quality) sampling.

I understand that's not the point of playing vinyl (I frankly don't understand what the point is, but then again, I don't understand the point of collecting a room full of shiny discs in plastic cases either), but the audio quality argument sometimes offered by people who like vinyl sounds like the typical justification bias, a bit what you regularly hear from people who buy gold-plated HDMI cables.

niklasni12• 12 years ago

I'm into new dance music, and I think very few people will use an entirely analog setup anymore. Some will record instruments to computers, some will use software instruments, or a combination of the two.

But I don't buy vinyl for the sound, I buy it because I like having a wall full of it.

polshaw• 12 years ago

Yes, but this isn't a problem. Nothing is 'lost' with the digital stage. Vinyl sometimes has a different mastering, as you cannot increase the loudness of vinyl by compressing the waveform, as well as the fact that it is often marketed at audio enthusiasts. Aside from the unobjective preferences of some, this is how vinyl can sometimes sound better than the released CD. Nothing to do with limitations of the CD format.

mojuba2• 12 years ago

See SPARS Codes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARS_code#Codes

I usually don't trust vinyls that don't indicate their recording/producing/pressing method.

deutronium2• 12 years ago

Cheers, I'd not heard of that.

userbinator• 12 years ago

From a technological perspective it's interesting to note that vinyl is also a very "open" format in the sense that you can actually (with a magnifying glass) see the physical manifestation of the audio data on the disc, and to be able to play one doesn't require the sort of complex electronics technology that a more modern format like a CD would need. Of course, there is also no DRM.

laumars3• 12 years ago

You don't need a magnifying glass. As a DJ, I used to regularly use the colour changes in the pressing to judge when changes in the music were due to aid me with determining when to queue up the next track and/or perform any complimentary DJing trick.

wheels• 12 years ago

There are a couple of things that have pushed me towards buying more vinyl:

- Increased prevalence of bundling high quality MP3 downloads with a vinyl purchase. Independent artists often do this and (at least in Germany) Amazon's autorip also is usually good for vinyl purchases.

- Flea markets. I often find albums I'd like to own for €3.

I kind of have mixed-mode listening -- in the living room, when guests are over, it's nicer atmosphere-wise to say, "Nobody's plugging in their smartphone to play some track from YouTube; we're listening to records." But on my own, even when I buy CDs (which I still do) I usually rip them and then listen to them exclusively from my MP3 collection. With the bundling of vinyl and MP3s, it makes it easy to replace the album that goes in my physical collection (I have several hundred CDs and about 100 records) with an LP, and still get the benefits of having high quality digital music. For those of us that still have a bit of a fetish for physical collections of things (I like paper books for the same reason), that hits a nice sweet spot.

Schlaefer• 12 years ago

Mp3 redeeming and Amazon's DRM-free AutoRip (Germany here too) is a real game changer buying Vinyl. It's a convenience that makes me happily pay 20 bucks for an LP without thinking twice.

Most of the time you consider it creepy when big company knows your buying history, but in this case amazon wraps it in such a nice package it's hard to resist.

soylentcola• 12 years ago

Yeah, digital bundling makes a huge difference. Digital files are the clear overall winner in terms of convenience, portability, and flexibility but even leaving aside any audiophile debates over sample rate and analog vs digital, there's something a lot of people enjoy about tangible items, big cover art, and the feeling that paying (or paying more) is justified when you get a physical thing as opposed to a bunch of bits. Bundling lets you have it both ways and since the cost of distributing the digital version is very low, it's not much of an added cost (even if either way you're primarily paying for the cost and value of the actual data whether you buy vinyl, CD, or mp3).

Cthulhu_• 12 years ago

I think that because music has become such a common and accessible thing now (via one-click downloads and everyone having a collection of thousands of songs), vinyl is making a comback because of its physical nature. It's solid, large, comes in a nice packaging where you get to hold and admire the artwork, etc.

Once I get rich I'll buy a proper hifi set and a vinyl player and start a little collection. Just for kicks.

jnaour• 12 years ago

One of the main aspect that interest me in vinyls is the fact that you could not skip a song. You really listen to a whole album. You could discover new songs that you're not used to listen.

For me it's that that really make the differents with MP3/Playlist in which you are in a full-consumer mode spending half your time skipping songs.

listic• 12 years ago

I am wondering why other dedicated stuff doesn't seem to have a future despite its own physical nature. E.g. Chumby shot down, there haven't been much demand for WikiReaders lately and I was actually worried for e-paper ebook readers until Amazon released a new generation this Fall.

I admire physical things like LPs, but they are not practival for my liking, I decided against them when buying my first Hi-Fi system back in 1999 and I still do now. I think my next Hi-Fi system will be a nice DAC for a computer (would be nice to find a good one that supports Blueetooth AND USB at the same time) plus a nice pair of monitor speakers. ADAM A5X's could have digital inputs, as they have digital amps already anyway, but they don't.

One thing I love about LPs, though, is that they have such huge space for gorgeous art.

ryandetzel5• 12 years ago

Interesting enough I went over my brother in laws this weekend and sure enough he has a brand new record player with fancy balancing and strobe speed selection and a whole bunch of new and old albums. During our meal we listened to a 40 year old Elton John album which didn't sound horrible but wouldn't hold it's weight next to its digital counterpart.

Some people say vinyl sounds "warmer" or better and if you're a professional and you have the right equipment that might be true but for the average consumer that owns the average consumer electronics in their square rooms with no sound absorption you'll hear no difference over 192 (or even 128) mp3.

Cal me boring but I'll stick with my Sonos with it's never ending Google Music playlist over clunky vinyl any day. ;-)

warfangle3• 12 years ago

For me it's a lot less about the "warmer" sound. It's about the availability of prep loudness aware mastering and the fact that I actually own the copies. Everything available digitally has a weak dynamic range. Everything available digitally is restricted by an end user license agreement - and can be taken away from me without my consent.

I still spotify, by I vinyl too :)

mironathetin5• 12 years ago

You have a good point. The quality of the sound pressed to vinyl is very high and less compressed currently, because of the target audience. But I guess, most of 24/192 downloads and SACDs are also mastered well for the same reason.

marrs2• 12 years ago

    Everything available digitally has a weak dynamic range.

Really? I can't find the figures right now, but as I recall the max dynamic range available to vinyl is about 40db whereas for a standard CD it's about 96db, so in the hands of a good mastering engineer, even standard CDs should be superior.

Having said that, most pop music is compressed for radio or jukebox these days where all dynamic range is killed in the pursuit of loudness.

    Everything available digitally is restricted by an end user license agreement

Yeah, I still buy hard copies for the same reason.

ams6110• 12 years ago

Vinyl can be taken away too, not by revoking a license agreement but simply by technological changes (nobody makes turntables, cartridges, stylus, etc. anymore). We're not really there yet with vinyl but there are certainly a lot fewer choices than there used to be, and what remains seems to be trending to choices only in the low end or audiophile-grade high end.

mironathetin5• 12 years ago

"Some people say vinyl sounds "warmer" or better and if you're a professional and you have the right equipment that might be true (…)"

Most likely it is the other way round. A nearby record store made a test a while ago. They invited an audience and compared vinyl with digital on three different pairs of equipment. In direct blind comparison, the audience rated digital better only on the most sophisticated systems (> 10.000 dollar DAC/record player).

Their result is: if you spend less than 4000 for your player and care for best sound, go with vinyl. I guess that applies to most of us ;o)

eterm• 12 years ago

You don't need a 10k DAC, I suspect something a hundredth of that would still have been well rated. DACs aren't complex equipment.

Stick the money on an amp and speaker set that sounds good (that still doesn't require 10k btw).

cokernel• 12 years ago

I am interested in learning more about this test. Which record store performed this test? When? I guess record stores don't normally publish their experiments, but it would be nice if they did.

ryandetzel5• 12 years ago

Yeah, was it a cd or mp3? 128kbps or 192? There are so many "studies" that say one or the other but my assumption is most people would know or even care about the difference. The best music is the music you have access to and can enjoy and for most people that's the music that fits in you pocket or can be streamed anywhere at anytime.

If you want to say you like vinyl because you like the feel, the blowing the dust off, the setting the needle, the flipping to side B then I'm fine with that but to say it's a better sound (that is noticeable to make it worth the premium and hassle) that's just silly. Hipsters will be hipsters though.

jespersaron• 12 years ago

I think that from all the modern ways of storing information, vinyl might be one of the most resilient. Archeologists will dig out and put together pieces of vinyl on the year 5014, like they do with ancient pottery today.

We probably will be known as "the great lovemaking civilization" despite all the atrocities commited, because of all the sleazy pop songs pressed on millions of vinyl records. I bet the ancient greeks would have put much more effort into factual accuracy of their pottery decoration too, if they only knew.

thallian• 12 years ago

Always interesting is the page on vinyl myths at the hydrogenaudio wiki: http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_%28Vinyl%29

I mainly use vinyl when I want to do the ritual which can be quite calming. But normally I listen to my digital ripps of the stuff.

analog31• 12 years ago

I normally don't give in to psychological woo, but I wonder if the medium affects the quality of the music itself. I'm a performing musician with virtually no recorded work, but I definitely play better if I know that somebody in the audience -- even just one person -- is listening.

If nothing else, the analog medium re-creates the historical relationship with the audience for recorded music. You might not sell a lot of records, but those who buy your record do so for only one reason: Because they want it.

nickhalfasleep• 12 years ago

It's a fun experience and the album covers are works of art. My 3-year-old daughter loves to go to her grandparent's house and help put the needle down on Yellow Submarine.

arh68• 12 years ago

With recent advances in 3D printing, is there any hope for a home vinyl record press? How much would it cost to cut my own vinyl? (google fails me: [1]) I know very little about the logistics of record pressing.

[1] http://www.vinylrecorder.com/diamant.html

mojuba2• 12 years ago

You will need an atom-scale resolution printer for the the record to sound good really. Or a few atoms :) Even for digital records being transferred to vinyl, the track is circular, so yes, atom-scale printing would be your best bet.

leoedin• 12 years ago

There is software which will generate the 3D model required from a sound file. There have been records 3D printed [1], but the quality is much, much worse than an actual record.

[1] http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/129971-vinyl-records-are-far...

The stylus size on an LP is something like 2.5 thousandths of an inch, or about 63.5 um. The printer used in the link above (an Objet500 Connex) has a minimum layer thickness of 16 um. The article talks about 600 DPI, which may be a horizontal resolution? That works out at around 42 um. The Objet website just gives a minimum resolution of 16 um.

Either way, when you look on the scale of the needle your groove is going to have a lot of hysteresis - essentially appearing very blocky. The high frequency sound components are going to be lost completely.

There will obviously be improvements on resolution. The problem is that to build something which can accurately make records with high frequency sounds (perhaps 15kHz), you need to build it to very high tolerances. It's very hard to make those sort of tolerances cheap.

Some low cost 3D printers have been made which use UV light to cure epoxy resin layer by layer. The 2D resolution of those technologies is dependent on the resolution of the UV projector rather than the mechanical tolerances of the rails and extruder, so there's a lot more potential for high resolution prints there. The Z direction is still dependent on mechanical movement though.

ryandetzel5• 12 years ago

How would you get the data to the record..through the digital Internet? ;-)

k-mcgrady• 12 years ago

This thread is full of people claiming that people buy vinyl for the 'warm' sound. For me it's the experience. I have a pretty shit record player and the sound is not very good. However the experience of actively listening while looking at the artwork/photos and reading along to the lyrics can't be matched by digital. Sure I can Google the lyrics and look at the artwork in iTunes but it isn't the same experience. I listen to music most of the day and that's done digitally. It's convenient and I have access to everything. But I treat vinyl like I would treat watching a movie. Something I sit down to do in a nice atmosphere.

ryandetzel5• 12 years ago

"There is a strong suspicion in the audiophile community that LP reissues are commonly mastered from a CD source. What this means is that, instead of traveling to a record label's tape vault, finding the original master tapes and a machine that can play them, and going through the painstaking and expensive process of transferring that tape to a mastering disc in order to press LPs, the starting point is actually a CD. And the LP pressing is essentially an inferior copy of that CD. In these cases, the "warmth" you associate with the vinyl record is completely up to the distortions added by the playback process. "

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/29-vinyl-records-and-digital-a...

ryandetzel5• 12 years ago

If you're a real hipster you'd track down Sony MiniDisc's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniDisc

Vinyl record sales hit 18-year high

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