BBC begins kids coding push with Bitesize and TV shows

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28984411

by LukeB_UK • 12 years ago

35 35 12 years ago

bbc.co.uk

svenkat2• 12 years ago

Don't get me wrong--learning to code is a great intellectual exercise.

But the cynic in me questions whether a lot of the push to integrate coding into school/society is about diluting the software programmer field.

It's no secret that programmers command extremely high salaries, relative to their level of education. By increasing the number of people who can code, the value of the (average) programmer goes down.

clownba• 12 years ago

Its because software programming is easy

svenkat2• 12 years ago

If you want to put words in my mouth, I can't stop you.

I never said that software programming is easy.

danso• 12 years ago

I think seeing it simply as "learn to code" is too limiting. Programming is a means for humans to implement math and logic with real world effects. Perhaps early efforts will be rote and unenlightening, but I would hope that learning programming is a vehicle towards instilling a greater literacy of logic and numeracy in our society.

adwf• 12 years ago

I think it's more a fear that programming will eventually leave everyone else without a job. Hence if you can't program in the future, you'll be in as much difficulty as someone who say, can't read/write in an office job - permanently relegated to simple manual labour.

Already__Taken• 12 years ago

If you want to be really cynical, it's GCHQ wanting a bigger talent pool.

pbhjpbhj3• 12 years ago

But this just puts the power of computing in the hands of the grubby proletariat rather than preserving it for the rich. Surely that's not a Conservative policy move ...

jiggy20113• 12 years ago

Programming salaries in the UK aren't really that high, plenty are advertised at sub £20k.

tfgg• 12 years ago

Being a programmer in the modern age is like being a wizard, and it's no surprise that other wizards are concerned that people might learn their magic.

I'd love it if everyone could program, it'd make my life a lot easier and I could do something else interesting.

Also if your job is easy enough to be done by a schoolchild after minimal training, I'm not sure you deserve it.

mherkender• 12 years ago

I agree. It's bound to fail for one thing -- nobody's gonna get blackballed in the programming industry for being too open about programming fundamentals.

Worse yet, controlling information to secure your position is a special kind of evil. Do you respect lawyers who make the world more litigative and themselves more valuable? Do you respect doctors/police officers/etc that protect others in their profession at the expense of the people they hurt? That's the world one builds when they hide that kind of information, one where professions aren't equally accountable.

dropit_sphere• 12 years ago

While I share your wishes that more people would learn to program, this quote rubbed me the wrong way:

"Also if your job is easy enough to be done by a schoolchild after minimal training, I'm not sure you deserve it."

The question is not whether the job can done by a schoolchild with minimal training. The question is: Does your boss think that it can be done by a schoolchild with minimal training?

I don't have a solution. I don't want to see a license for programming or anything ridiculous---(although perhaps a license to manage programmers...), but there is a real problem here.

gaius6• 12 years ago

Allowing for inflation, programmer salaries have been flat since 2000. Law, medicine, accounting - all of these absolutely pay more and are more secure jobs.

planetjones• 12 years ago

In the UK many software jobs have been outsourced and offshored. The roles of many people onshore have been reduced to "project manager", "analyst" or "consultant".

Of course this isn't true of everyone, but it is of many "mass employers". I just see a disconnect between the reality of the "mass market" software development in the UK and the "mass market" appeal of education programmes like these.

Is that fair ?

johneth• 12 years ago

I'd argue against your point that many software jobs have been outsources/offshored - at least not any more than other major western economies. The UK has a relatively large software industry - game development, european headquarters of various large technology multinationals, a thriving tech scene in Silicon Roundabout / Cambridge / starting in the north of England, and a fairly large hobbyist arena. If anything, this push will bring the jobs that have been offshored back to the UK as the talent pool grows.

gaius6• 12 years ago

The dirty little secret of Tech City, which is what we are calling silicon roundabout this week, is there is very very little tech there. Lots of "creatives", lots of "social media brand strategy", a few hairdressers and bakers with Twitter accounts. But no actual tech is developed there.

chippy• 12 years ago

I would say most mass market software people here are working for peanuts in a digital marketing firm. Not sure how that relates to these programmes... but

k-mcgrady• 12 years ago

I disagree. There have a been a large number of companies requiring software developers opening up new offices in Northern Ireland over the last few years and existing ones have been expanding.

celticninja• 12 years ago

I think it is changing, I work for the civil service in the UK and there is a drive toward more in house staff than contractors.

malkia• 12 years ago

A lot of UK based video game developers have moved to US, Europe, Asia, Japan in the last 10 or more years. Lots of studio got closed down, some of them with long history and very respectable.

bnastic• 12 years ago

Gamedev in the UK today is but a shadow of its former self.

SixSigma• 12 years ago

Not the BBC, programming became part of the National Curriculum as from today

http://bbc.co.uk/news/education-28987787

gaius6• 12 years ago

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_computer_science.htm

14% unemployment among CS grads in the UK (double that of law). Yet you name it, the government wants more women, minorities, children, you name it to go into the field.

Something doesn't add up here.

evan_• 12 years ago

Programming is relevant to more than just computer science grads- it seems like every week there's a story of a motivated professional who is not what you would typically call a programmer finding a way to automate a task through programming and saving huge amounts of time and money in the process.

pbhjpbhj3• 12 years ago

We're talking coding here, not computer science. Computer scientists make the developments that then get engineered in to the tools we use to code with, the platforms we use to code on, etc..

People using computers more in a greater range of disciplines at a deeper level doesn't seem like it would necessarily impact on CS at all - there might be more standardisation reducing the demand for new tools. There might be more focussed advances where one or two CS workers get their work adopted in to current tech. Both these things would lead to less employment of CS grads (in CS) wouldn't they?

It might also be that specialists without domain knowledge are not as desirable as those with domain knowledge who can go on to train in CS (or to add IT skills, which I just noticed are wrapped up with the stats you quote for CS).

To add an extra prong to the enquiry, does http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_mathematics.htm showing only 55% of those studying mathematics having a job mean that we should not teach mathematics to the general school population?

gaius6• 12 years ago

Unemployed 9% on the page you link to.

jiggy20113• 12 years ago

That includes "IT" degrees, many of which are low end courses at former polytechnics designed to churn out graduates, I don't know how that compares to the unemployment rate of "real" CS.

gaius6• 12 years ago

No, that's on this page http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_information_systems.htm

lightblade2• 12 years ago

I don't think kids should learn to code at such early age, not without proper ethics training. Programming gives you a lot of power. The power to do both good and evil. Children just don't have that kind of judgement.

If you teach your kids to learn to code and they end up hacking the bank and got caught, who is going to take responsibility? Does the kid get tried as an adult or juvenile?

Shish2k2• 12 years ago

I don't think kids should learn to use cutlery at such early age, not without proper ethics training. Cutlery gives you a lot of power. The power to do both good and evil. Children just don't have that kind of judgement.

If you teach a kid to eat with a knife and fork and they end up stabbing someone, who is going to take responsibility? Does the kid get tried as an adult or juvenile?

lightblade2• 12 years ago

Oh, but we have proper ethics training for using cutlery. It's called table manner.

Table manners are the rules of etiquette used while eating, which may also include the appropriate use of utensils.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_manners

Now the stabbing part, there are many court cases of these. I can't cite specifics, but I'm sure you can find them.

BBC begins kids coding push with Bitesize and TV shows

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