The Guide to Not Buying a 3D Printer

http://chopmeister.blogspot.com/2014/08/sifting-through-features-or-guide-to.html

by ChuckMcM • 12 years ago

165 59 12 years ago

chopmeister.blogspot.com

ChuckMcM2• 12 years ago

This is a great article which dives into some of the challenges of someone who wants to get into 3D printing but doesn't know what to buy. There is soooo much crud out there and it is so hard to know.

CraigJPerry• 12 years ago

Yeah i've bookmarked this in case i ever change my mind.

For now i think paying someone else to print is the best option, for low volume. I guess it's been the same with many new technologies, initially at least.

_delirium• 12 years ago

That's also my view, in part because paying someone else to manufacture parts also retains significantly more flexibility about which processes to use, depending on the part/application/volume. I can get some things CNC-milled, other things 3d-printed using Material A, another thing 3d-printed using Material B, something else injection-molded, etc. It's not clear to me that there's currently a single process that's best for everything, and I don't have the space, capital, or knowledge to own and operate three or four machines.

mtinkerhess• 12 years ago

My final piece of advice - do us all a favor and do not give Makerbot your money. They are the exact opposite of what the global 3d printing community stands for and works towards.

I'm not too familiar with 3d printers and hadn't heard anything like this about Makerbot before -- anyone know what the conflict there is about?

JDDunn92• 12 years ago

I believe it's about them being closed source.

q3k• 12 years ago

Makerbot is a company that has been making profit off selling ready-to-build kits of open-source-based 3D printers (which was okay, as they released their designs under similar licenses). They then closed off the hardware and software after a few revisions - even when their products are still based on advancements made by the open source community.

ChuckMcM2• 12 years ago

Makerbot started out the lead 3D printer maker and participated a lot in the community then sold themselves to Stratsys and closed up things like their Thingiverse and build file format etc etc. Lots of angst there.

spiritplumber5• 12 years ago

Yeah, I actually scuttled a deal with them for my laser cutter accessory over this...

Funny enough they were starting to be a lot less interested in the deal when they heard I had a patent on it. I even tried the "look, you've covered your behinds, I'm covering mine" angle.

(I do have a patent on the design, but I'm choosing to not enforce it - http://robots-everywhere.com/re_wiki/index.php?n=Main.LCheap... if you want to either buy one, or download the designs for one)

Maxious• 12 years ago

The story goes Makerbot got really big on Open Source Hardware, this attracted investors, the investors demanded that the company lock everything down and some founders quit http://josefprusa.cz/open-hardware-meaning/

Makerbot disputes that investors caused them to change but "For the Replicator 2, we will not share the way the physical machine is designed or our GUI" http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2012/09/24/lets-try-that-again/

makomk• 12 years ago

Yeah, the guy who founded them and wrote that blogpost, Bre Pettis, had previously publicly humiliated newbies to the community for not correctly releasing their hardware designs (because they didn't understand how), calling it "a dead end for the innovation and development which is the heart of the open source hardware community".

Basically, they're very keen on other people releasing their stuff as open source hardware so they can use it, but refuse to release their own stuff. It also doesn't help that certain prominent, business-owning members of the community called anyone holding Bre Pettis to the standards he expected of others terrorists and claimed to be standing up for "polite discourse" by doing so.

tmuir• 12 years ago

I have a Solidoodle 3 at home, and a Makerbot Replicator 2 at work. In terms of print quality, the Makerbot is significantly better than the Solidoodle.

There are certainly things I like better about the Solidoodle, such as the ability to use a sheet of glass on the bed, which allows me to use ABS/Acetone slurry to make parts stick to the bed, the ability to tweak all of the CAM settings, the mechanism for feeding the filament into the hot end is easier to work on, I've never had a clog on the Solidoodle, and there are several power users who have shared improved designs for various parts of the machine.

But if I need to make a part that has to be within tight tolerances, or have a good surface finish, I prefer to print with the Makerbot.

Does anyone know of a sub $3000 open source FDM printer that can print as well as a Makerbot?

chopmeister2• 12 years ago

Thanks for reading the article! To answer your question, a 3 year old wooden ultimaker prints stuff compared to which printing on a makerbot looks like printing with a shovel. :)

The question of why I suggest avoiding makerbot is complex and not just about open vs. closed source. I will elaborate that in a future article in detail, since it raised quite a lot of questions.

bsilvereagle• 12 years ago

Having spent significant amounts of time with Replicator 2s and Ultimaker 1s & 2s, the Ultimakers have far superior print quality in my opinion. Small details typically come through better on the Ultimakers, and tolerances were held better in 95% of my tests.

jesimon• 12 years ago

SHAMELESS PLUG: I do sell the FlashForge printers, which can be found here: http://shop3duniverse.com/collections/flashforge-printers

I'm posting this only because I think it's a legitimate answer to an important question... Is there an affordable printer that prints as well as (or better than) a MakerBot?

I have been using the FlashForge Creator and Creator X to make 3D printed prosthetic devices, and I'm thrilled with the quality. All of the photos and videos I have on my blog at 3duniverse.org were printed on the Creator or Creator X printers. I'd say these printers print better than the MakerBots, which we've been testing side-by-side.

The FlashForge printers range in price from $977 for the original Creator to $1349 for the latest Creator Pro. The printers come fully assembled and include two full spools of filament.

But note that I only started selling them after falling in love with them through hundreds of hours of direct hands-on experience with them. I haven't yet found another printer on the market that has better price/performance value.

spiritplumber5• 12 years ago

I have a S3 as well - try printing at 2/3rd speed. Also, replace the rubber belts with kevlar belts for precision.

codehero• 12 years ago

Makerbot is trying to be the Apple of consumer 3D printers. However, the Genius bar will still help you with your 3GS; Makerbot Support wouldn't touch my Thing-o-matic issue (and I bought that in 2012). The issue regarded the heated bed connector, which burned out due to a design flaw.

The moral is they will eagerly drop support for your $3000 purchase in just a few years.

gregpilling• 12 years ago

I also had a very bad experience with Makerbot and support. They are just terrible.

JDDunn92• 12 years ago

You should also consider not buying a 3d printer at all. Everyone I know who has one says it was awesome the first month, then they don't know what to do with it. Go to http://www.makexyz.com/ and find a cheap local 3d printer to print stuff you want. It will take a lot of printing before you can justify buying one.

Joeboy• 12 years ago

I would love to get on board the 3d printing revolution, but I can't think of a single thing I need or want that I could make.

georgemcbay• 12 years ago

I use mine (prusa i3 reprap) quite a bit; one of my other hobbies is photography (including using a lot of retro lenses and other gear at times) which involves a lot of "attaching this to that", which having a 3D printer is pretty much ideal for.

I've made various lens to body adapters (mostly old legacy manual focus lenses to my Sony A7 [E-Mount]), custom lens caps for odd-sized lenses, custom-sized extension tubes, etc. Just today I 3D printed a custom mount to physically attach a generic ("Neewer" brand) hotshoe flash that I rewired into my Fujifilm Instax 210 instant camera to replace the shitty direct-flash mechanism that the camera ships with so I can use the camera indoors and get decent exposures.

But, yeah, if you can't think of anything you would use a 3D printer to build (if you had one), it is likely to be collecting dust within a couple of weeks after you get it.

GFischer2• 12 years ago

You know what would have been a killer use for 3d printers when I was a kid? Toy soldiers and GI Joe accessories.

Maybe there's a startup idea in there :)

fudged71• 12 years ago

I'm glad that there are so many open source 3D printers out there using Marlin and GCode. They aren't easy to use, but they allow us to create a unifying platform on top for usability www.printtopeer.com

We've solved the "hard to print" aspect first, and will be moving further into solving the "hard to calibrate", "hard to troubleshoot", "hard to share", "hard to integrate" aspects soon. I want these machines to be easy to use some day, and I think we're on the right track.

spiritplumber5• 12 years ago

A 3D printer is a good "force multiplier" for a small workshop, but not that useful by itself.

For example, I use it to print custom gaskets for the circuits that I make and sell -- this results in less installation errors, which is worth it just for the replacement units.

jeffchuber2• 12 years ago

I have a Rostock Max V2 from SeeMeCNC. They are great guys, have a great community, their machines are easily mod-able, and totally open source. It's definitely not for the beginner, but it's an awesome tool.

rational-future• 12 years ago

What do you use it for?

jeffchuber2• 12 years ago

prosthetic sockets

baddox• 12 years ago

I've said it before but I'll say it a thousand times more if necessary. The first and foremost important feature of a 3d printer is the quality of the prints. That's what it's made for. It's not made to connect via WiFi, tweet when the print is done, change LED colors while printing and make coffee. It can do that, sure, but that's not its primary purpose, now is it? When I look at some of the currently offered printers it's like someone trying to sell me a car, with all the bells and whistles, for a crazy low price, and it's not that ugly actually... but sadly the only thing it doesn't do is drive.

That entire paragraph is subjective. Some people do want WiFi (I certainly wish my printer had it, because my workflow options right now are a pain). Some people do want it to tweet or otherwise give live progress updates. And so on.

privong• 12 years ago

That entire paragraph is subjective. Some people do want WiFi (I certainly wish my printer had it, because my workflow options right now are a pain). Some people do want it to tweet or otherwise give live progress updates. And so on.

Sure, some people want those things (and I can see where they would be nice to have), but I think the point is that if it does not print well, the wifi, tweeting, coffee, etc. do not matter.

PhasmaFelis• 12 years ago

He's not saying features don't matter. He's saying that a printer with tons of features that can't make a decent print is not a good printer.

jacquesm5• 12 years ago

Simply rent one. Most major shoptools are best used by experts and the capital cost + maintenance is just way too high for occasional use. This goes for Lathes, mills, bandsaws (the metal variety), sheetmetal gear and so on. 3D printers are no exception to this rule (even though having all that gear certainly is a wonderful feeling you don't actually need it and gaining all the required expertise is a matter of (many) months or years, not weeks).

Until you reach the stage where you are making stuff a substantial portion of your time renting is by far the better option (especialy in fields where there is still a lot of development).

If you want to get one to play with the technology on a daily basis buy one that is as open and flexible as possible so you can move up as new developments become available.

This is a pretty good option:

http://www.emachineshop.com/machine-shop/Rapid-Prototyping-S...

RyJones• 12 years ago

if you're in Seattle: http://metrixcreatespace.com

Pwnguinz• 12 years ago

If you just need occasional printing done locally (so you can pick it up, inspect it, or ask questions in person), you can use this site to find a shop doing 3D printing with this website: http://www.3dhubs.com/

Might be less hassle than renting an actual machine.

analog31• 12 years ago

I learned the same lesson long ago with printed circuit boards.

Renting has the additional advantage that you're not stuck with the particular technology that you bought. If two jobs benefit from 2 printing technologies, you can have both.

On the other hand, a benefit of having your own proto shop is that if you're skilled, you can prototype and modify quicker than you can specify. And don't overlook ancient methods. You can still do a lot with woodworking tools.

penguat• 12 years ago

I was working wood for the first time in a while recently, and amazed by how quickly pine can be worked.

delucain• 12 years ago

Also, consider your local hackerspaces, co-op workshops, and community centers. Often a reasonable membership will get you access to some equipment that you'd never be able to afford (or at least justify buying) on your own.

I've been a member of the Austin Hackerspace (http://atxhs.org) for a while, and it's paid dividends in saved expense on tools. Plus the community of experts it has attracted has allowed me to quickly finish projects that would take months of research on my own.

eli• 12 years ago

the DC library has one you can use for the cost of materials.

superuser2• 12 years ago

Chicago also. Second floor of Harold Washington Library, just before security, to the right. They also do some maker workshops.

moron4hire2• 12 years ago

I'd also like to add: make sure you actually need a 3D print. Most of the stuff I see people printing could be made faster and more reliably with more traditional manufacturing methods. For example: a 3D printed case for just about anything is a terrible idea. It's very hard to get square, true prints of specific dimensions. I've seen many a warped Raspberry Pi case.

bri3d• 12 years ago

What if I'm optimizing for cost, not speed and reliability? My printer works just fine while I'm away, so I don't really care about a print taking an hour or two, and plastic is bendy and forgiving enough that a bit of accuracy sacrificed is fine.

I'd argue that additive manufacturing via hobbyist FDM printing is a lot cheaper for one off designs than subtractive manufacturing of any form, because the consumable cost is limited to utilized filament and a tiny amount of printer maintenance rather than huge amounts of waste combined with expensive, finicky tool bits and the same kinds of maintenance.

I do agree that for items like a Raspberry Pi case which could be mass-produced via molding to much better tolerance at a low cost, 3D printing might be silly, but for truly one-off, low accuracy consumer parts I don't think 3D printing can be beat.

I personally have also not had much problem getting square, true, dimensionally accurate prints with a crappy printer (Solidoodle 2). The most deflection I've ever seen is about .8mm across the 150x150mm build area. That isn't perfect and obviously won't work for precision equipment, but combined with ABS's flexibility and forgiving nature it's certainly good enough to make one-off enclosures, fasteners, buttons and knobs, adapters, and other "glue" parts, which is most of my use for 3D printing.

I will say that 3D printers are hard to set up, and that's probably the source of a lot of the warped cases you've seen. CNC mills and lathes are just as hard to set up, though - you've just generally paid the vendor tons of money to do it for you.

jtchang• 12 years ago

Thought I'd leave a link here for a company based in the bay area and grew out of the Noisebridge hackerspace:

http://www.typeamachines.com/

They have a small office in Techshop though they are in the process of getting more space. Their machines are awesome and a lot of the guys who work on it are in the bay (which means you can hit them up and ask questions easily). Also the driver code is opensource.

romanows• 12 years ago

Is there some set of standardized benchmark objects that different companies and owners could print and compare? Maybe something that requires increasingly high precision as a function of volume so you could say "my machine goes out-of-spec at 3 cm^2"?

jacquesm5• 12 years ago

With the amount of slop and the kind of drive used (steppers) going out of spec is the norm, precision is mostly coincidential.

If you don't use servos or steppers+encoders for feedback you may just as well assume that anything that you produce is unique. The variability in wire-feed (gripping wire is a tricky proposition) and head temperature adds to this. The result is a fairly rough surface (compared to millwork or lathework) but in the end what matters most here is that it can be done at all.

If you require precision then you're probably going to have to do a little bit of re-work (just like you would with casting), if all you care about is looks then you may have to do some sanding to get a really smooth surface.

3D printing right now does not allow fabrication to the same tolerances that we have gotten used to with even minimal metal working tools unless you are prepared to reach very deep into your pockets.

See above about renting, good quality equipment can be rented for a fraction of the cost of buying bad quality equipment and will produce workpieces that are very good due to the tight control over the head position and the increased control over wire feeds and temperatures.

Consistency (feeds, speeds, temperatures, materials) and precision (accuracy of position, repeatability) are flip sides of the same coin, you can't really have the one without the other, and when both are good then you will have good quality workpieces. If either is not so good then you will end up with rough work, low quality and/or a lack of precision.

Not all work requires precision or good surface finish, it is rare to have work that requires neither.

MrBuddyCasino• 12 years ago

A.k.a why not just use Shapeways. The level of detail they are capable of is very impressive: http://www.shapeways.com/model/1987984/tribal-voodoo-skull.h...

I don't now a lot about 3D printing, are there any serious competitors?

joshvm• 12 years ago

The Formlabs rook (the one with the helix in the centre) is pretty good, but it's difficult to find an STL for it.

snarfy• 12 years ago

I built my printer from parts sourced of the internet, following various incomplete wikis. I like electronics and arduino, and building the printer as a hobby project was a natural fit. There are many uses for the printer when dealing with small electronic projects, anything from project boxes, special connectors, screw terminals, etc. I use openscad to model all the parts, as I'm a programmer by day. If I were not in to electronics and general maker movement stuff, I'm not sure what I'd use the printer for, but as a maker, it's a great tool to have.

The other day one of the plastic hooks on the shower curtain broke. Instead of trying to glue it as I would have before the printer, I just printed a new one. Works great.

The printer: http://imgur.com/a/URcNC#0

Ccecil• 12 years ago

As someone who has been involved with printers 100% over the last 3 years I agree with this article for the most part. Everyone has a new crowdsourced "better than everything" printer pretty much every couple days. It is way past the point of confusion from the consumer's standpoint. Eventually some of these brands will wash out or merge but for now we are left with quite the range of products...most of which are virtually identical except for frame design. I don't recommend anyone who is serious about building your own printer to spend less than $1500 on parts when self sourcing. You "can" make a printer for $600 that is fairly solid but it typically is a tradeoff on time invested in tuning. Makerbot is never advised. Nothing about them is good enough. There are several better printers out there...but you are never going to get good results with anything that is less than $500. I feel sorry for anyone who has backed any of these sub $500 printer campaigns...I fell it will be detrimental to the community by creating unhappy consumers.

They are promising assembled printers nowadays for less than I spend on hotend, motors and electronics...let alone frame and assembly.

I am a printer vendor and have been for the last 3 1/2 years...I have worked on many opensource projects related to the reprap community. I have done my best to help people tune their printers in IRC regardless of where they sourced them...any printer can be made to print...making one print good takes time. How much time is based on how good the printer is assembled mechanically, electrically as well as tuned in the software side (firmware and slicer).

I often tell people "These things are like table saws...not toasters...just because you have a table saw does not mean you can use it well right away"

silasb• 12 years ago

Resin printers are interesting, because you take your DLP from your living room, hook it up to your LittleRP printer and then print out some high resolution items.

Easy cleanup, low noise, very little moving parts.

soggypenny• 12 years ago

Shameless plug for our 3D printing matching service: http://www.supplybetter.com. You come to us with a project, and we match you to the best service bureaus for the job (i.e. the people with the printers, both hobbyist and commercial). I'm the co-founder and mechanical engineer on the team, and you work directly with me as we source your project. Check us out!

GFK_of_xmaspast• 12 years ago

Not buying a 3d printer is easy. I do it every day. Even a tiny child can do it.

The Guide to Not Buying a 3D Printer

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