Finances of a Bare Bones Developer

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/KevinMaxon/20140818/223653/Finances_of_a_Bare_Bones_Developer.php

by Impossible • 12 years ago

94 71 12 years ago

cdnsteve• 12 years ago

Good to have transparency for others interested in doing something similar. It would be interesting to see a total number of hours invested to release v 1.0

And any learnings that might have sped up the process?

dognotdog• 12 years ago

As nice it is to see some hard figures, the numbers are disheartening. They say it's possible to make some side money during college, but don't even think about trying 10 years later :/

csbrooks• 12 years ago

"This means that it’s very possible none of us are making anywhere near minimum wage on this project, but regardless we’re all making about the same hourly wage, a wage determined by the relative commercial success of the game."

Game industry, I do not miss you.

angersock3• 12 years ago

The saddest thing is that so many are so passionate about it. :(

exelius3• 12 years ago

Try to think of being a game developer as similar to being a musician or a painter. You can be plenty passionate about it, but it's a hard business and there are only so many dollars up for grabs. For every musician who is able to make a living off of music, there are probably 10 equally talented and passionate musicians who didn't. I think game development is turning out to be a similar business.

morgante• 12 years ago

The saddest thing is that so many are so passionate about it. :(

That's precisely why pay is so low.

cdwhite• 12 years ago

Lars Doucet's http://www.fortressofdoors.com/follow-your-dreams-or-maybe-d... seems relevant. His company made a reasonably successful indie game ("Defender's Quest"); this article talks through his ambivalence about following a passion for making games, in the context of that experience. Could work out but probably won't, and it's OK either to not try or to try, give up, and try again at something with better odds.

Edit: missing verb, missing particle in infinitive

exelius3• 12 years ago

I think that the reality that is reflected here is that most game development moved overseas a long time ago for a reason. The indie games market is too crowded, gamer willingness to pay is too low, and none of the skills required for developing an indie game are exceptionally hard to find. As such, indie game development rarely pays a living wage in the US. If you lived somewhere with a significantly lower cost of living, it might not be so bad.

benologist9• 12 years ago

I don't think that's accurate at all. Most games, and startups, are just bad ideas that can't pay for employees and stuff. The problem isn't living expenses, that's just one number you need to reach.

Developers who can't make money can't afford to make games as their occupation.

mjn• 12 years ago

Significantly lower cost of living, or better sources of early-stage funding. Some countries have started including games in their arts or film funding, which can be a viable source of initial funds (especially in countries where the arts funding is fairly large, relative to population).

A lot of our students (I teach in a game program in Denmark) pay for the first 3-12 months of their indie studios that way. Those are typically $15k initial grants, and a possibility of around $100k-$200k follow-on funding towards production, if they're convinced it's worth funding at more than the seed level. Obviously that's not going to pay for an AAA game, but it gives indie developers some runway. The early funding for Playdead's Limbo [1] was through that route, for example, and then they sought commercial investors later. Here are this year's recipients: http://www.dfi.dk/Branche_og_stoette/Spilordningen/stoettede...

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo_(video_game)

benologist9• 12 years ago

Startups and businesses are identical to this? It's not like you get to pay yourself a fair salary out of nothing just because you feel you worked hard.

potatolicious• 12 years ago

Startups are a gamble with a high upside. If you win you'll be fabulously wealthy and probably never have to work again.

"Winning" in the game industry simply means you get to survive to work on the next project. Even high-profile studios with great track records are financially stumbling from one project into the next, and a single failure will sink them. Nobody is getting rich here - best case scenario you make a market wage, worst case scenario you make little to nothing.

ulisesrmzroche• 12 years ago

I think it's more about the pains of being independent, rather than just game development.

josephschmoe2• 12 years ago

I don't really understand why programmers go into game development?

Is it predominately the ultra low-end of programmers or something? It seems crazy to me that someone would take something like half the pay and way worse treatment/hours just to be in a specific industry.

Macsenour2• 12 years ago

Having made games for 30 years, I can tell you that a big part of it is a love of making something fun. I get to make something, and then play. Joy comes from playing and I am very joyful.

oafitupa• 12 years ago

Can't you do the same without programming it though? I don't think I could have fun playing a game I programmed for someone else.

ronyeh• 12 years ago

I think it is like why people become artists or musicians. Poor pay & very little recognition (except for the 0.1%) but it's fun to create something with your own two hands and see your vision slowly become reality.

benologist9• 12 years ago

Some people like making web applications. Some people like making game applications.

eloisant3• 12 years ago

Not necessarily low-end, but some people want to work so badly on video games that they accept these conditions.

Because enough programmers accepts them, there's no need to pay them more/give them decent conditions.

SolarNet2• 12 years ago

For me it's challenge, there arn't many other programming jobs which involve such complex realtime systems, and touch on just about every field of software engineering and computer science. And you have to deal with that as a single programmer or on a team of programmers.

To build a game requires realtime (i.e. do all these things in 16.7 ms, non-stop) graphics, input, deterministic simulation, and networking. It also touches on AI, UI, databases, algorithms (match making), systems programming, file formats (compression, fast loading, etc), procedural generation, SIMD programming (shaders), programming languages, tools development, distributed systems, assembly (in optimizing), etc. And then architecting all of those different parts to fit together.

Programming websites (full stack), enterprise software, and desktop applications all bores the shit out of me, by the time my internships were done with each of those I couldn't wait to stop doing it, even though I was offered cushy high paying salaries to stay on, I wouldn't be able to bare doing that shit day in and day out.

binarymidget• 12 years ago

This. I get to think about a bunch of different problems, some of them interesting, some of them difficult or impossible to solve, with a team of malcontents and nutballs. It's like being on a crew of pirates who stress about implementing k-d trees, matchmaking, deploying dedicated servers, build systems, scaling everything appropriately and doing it all as fast as possible. And at the end you ship something which is hopefully magical, possibly something that is shit, either way you have a giant party and tell awesome stories.

andyjdavis• 12 years ago

Games is a a glamour industry like music, movies and fashion. In all of those industries you see the same dynamic. Legions of very poorly paid people, lots of people making literally nothing. They just want to be part of it and to get their shot at the big time. Meanwhile a tiny percentage "make it" and get massively rich.

For every person in the Beatles there are massive numbers of people in bands who never make a dime. Similarly for every developer who starts a game company like Id that make serious money there are massive numbers who make little or nothing.

Is it predominately the ultra low-end of programmers or something?

Actually the opposite is often true. Certainly those who have any amount of success are often exceptionally good programmers. As one boss at a non-game software company once put it after we hired a former game programmer to make software for oil refineries, they are the jet fighter pilots of programming.

richardjdare• 12 years ago

I'm a part time indie developer. For my last game, Antigen, (http://antigengame.com) I got to do the following:

Work with procedural graphics algorithms. I invented several original techniques which I don't think have been used before. That was immensely satisfying. (for example, check out how I made the sprites: http://richardjdare.com/blog/2013/03/toxin-advanced-sprite-t... Or watch the trailer video to the end and try and figure out how I did the title screen animation!)

I learned a ton of algorithms and mathematical techniques I didn't know about before. AI, collision detection, geometry etc. All of these things being beyond the skills of an ultra low-end programmer I think :)

I learned how to do sound design, how synthesisers work etc. In previous games I used someone else's effects but in Antigen I did every noise myself from scratch.

Now, at my day job writing Java web-apps, the most complicated thing I do is calculate VAT, or figure out in what order I should call the functions of someone else's API! I often feel detached from the work, like I am just doing it as a favour. But when I work on my games I feel like I am doing what I became a programmer for; I am completely in the zone, surfing the edge of my knowledge and creativity. It lets me satisfy my love of the arts and sciences at the same time.

socialist_coder5• 12 years ago

You're absolutely spot on regarding the challenges in game development. The problems you have to solve in game development are one of the kind. Very different and interesting compared to your typical business programming.

gavanwoolery2• 12 years ago

"I estimate that my living expenses over the 20 months of development were around $13k"

$650 a month? My utilities, insurance, and food budget easily exceed that, nevermind rent. My first job paid $35k/year, which was comfortable enough (in San Diego), but I was living paycheck to paycheck.

The problem with budgets like this is that they work for some people, not everybody, and set up artificial expectations (i.e. in terms of crowd funding or other capital). I am definitely an advocate of frugal budgets, but there is a line. I don't see $650 month working when you have a wife, kid(s), dog(s), mortgages, and/or car payments - but then again many independent developers are wise enough to not take on those things. I have all but the mortgage, and I consider my burn rate of $3k/month pretty frugal.

ulfw2• 12 years ago

Yea that was a shocker for me too. Maybe that works if you are staying in your parent's house basement, but I just can't see anyone anyone in the US pay $650 for living expenses.

adventured• 12 years ago

Also very much depends on where you're at.

There are a lot of small towns in America where you can rent for $350 or $400 per month.

I lived on a $50 per month grocery budget when I was 21 (maybe $75 today). Worked a part-time job that paid for my apartment, and worked as an entrepreneur the rest of the time.

I think it's pretty amazing how low your bills can be when you're really young, have no family, and little to no concern about health issues (I had no health insurance for a decade, never had a single health issue either, which is purely luck / genetics).

jisaacstone3• 12 years ago

maybe not in a city, but I've lived in a rural area on less than $1000/month and I still know people who pay less than $300/month for rent.

after rent, having no car (bicycle) and no data plan cut things down even more.

only real issue is lack of medical insurance.

josephschmoe2• 12 years ago

Honestly, I don't think I've ever had expenses under 1200$/month (also San Diego) even when I lived with my parents.

Rent here is 400$/month minimum - and that's sharing a room or splitting a house with 4 friends. Not counting utilities.

Food budget alone should be at least 400$/month as well if you're eating a meager 13$ of food a day.

You'd be amazing if you had less than 400$/month of car expenses including payment/repairs.

Then there's everything else. Health bills, insurance, internet, Netflix, etc.

jisaacstone3• 12 years ago

You've never been poor.

$2-3 / day for food is doable (Cali groceries are a bit more expensive so maybe $4 here). Cut out all but the cheap meats. bread and veggies are super cheap (corn can be 5/$1 when it is in season)

no insurance. no internet (libraries are great). no car.

I never had expenses above $1000/month (not counting the month I paid $1000 to buy my first car) until I moved to the bay area and started making six figures.

joshdance• 12 years ago

Netflix? That is categorized next to health bills? :)

socialist_coder5• 12 years ago

These guys are making the classic indie game dev mistake- making a funky indie game that doesnt monetize well, has no virality, isn't freemium, etc.

Game developers like these aren't professionals, they're hobbyists. They're making games like its a hobby, not a professional job. They do no market research, experiments, etc. If you run a normal business or a normal startup like that, you will have similarly terrible results.

Be a professional. Look at the market. What monetizes well? What works? Hint: it's not the linked game.

Go look at the top grossing charts in the various app stores for an idea of what type of game you should be making.

I co-founded a small game company 2 years ago. We took 10 months to make our first game and have been releasing updates for it ever since. We're all working remotely. And, we're making enough money to pay ourselves a Bay Area salary.

I love video games. I love the game industry. I started as a QA tester and worked my way up from there. I will never do anything different. You can make money making games, but you can't be an indie game developer / hobbyist. Be a professional.

ivanca• 12 years ago

You made some really good points, but the game that you developed is... a casino game (slots vacation, from your profile). No game can show all that's wrong with the game industry more than a free-to-play mobile casino game. If that's being a professional, I don't wanna be one.

zeckalpha• 12 years ago

Very capitalist for a socialist_coder.

socialist_coder5• 12 years ago

I want to pay taxes and receive good benefits =)

For me, living in Germany instead of the US while founding my startup was a dream come true. I got very affordable health care, health insurance, and child care when we weren't making any money. I never had to stress out about how to pay for those things while we worked for a year without getting paid.

Now that we are making money, I'm happy to pay more for those things.

And, it's nice to know that if we went bankrupt tomorrow, I could continue to get those social services at a price I can always afford.

jrochkind1• 12 years ago

Video games are (or can be) art as well as business.

And artists in any medium, if they want to support themselves through their art, are a business too.

Some (stereotypical, not video game) artists do make art like it's a business, focusing on what will make them the most money. Sometimes it's good art too.

But most good art isn't driven mainly by what "monetizes well".

socialist_coder5• 12 years ago

100% agree. But my point is that if you want to talk finances, don't talk about it like it's an art project.

You can always make a game that makes money first, then make your artsy game later. That's our plan.

islon• 12 years ago

If Notch had done what you said Minecraft would never exist.

socialist_coder5• 12 years ago

Special cases do exist, but for the vast majority of people who want to be developing games, they need to be treating it like a business, not like art.

You can always make a profitable game first, then use that money to make your 2nd artsy game.

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Finances of a Bare Bones Developer

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