UK emergency phone and internet data storage law to be brought in

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28237108

by timthorn • 12 years ago

76 42 12 years ago

bbc.co.uk

UVB-762• 12 years ago

Disgraceful. All we have to do is mention "national security" and we can enshrine whichever human rights violation we fancy into legislation?

isomorphic• 12 years ago

Soon they won't even bother with that pretense. It's already happening in the US; people who disagree with pervasive surveillance are "extremists." And so power seeks to preserve itself.

Ntrails2• 12 years ago

Please don't assume that your view on what constitutes a human right represents that of the majority of the population. Which, after all, is what government represents.

higherpurpose• 12 years ago

I don't think most "democratic" governments in their current form are a very accurate representation of what people want. The way it works now is that people get to vote once every 4 years on some campaign promises that likely won't be implemented. And then the voted in government/parliament can basically do whatever it wants.

Also, you're wrong. The human rights in Europe are not "up for debate". It's the law, and the highest Court in Europe has ruled that such data retention is illegal. You don't get to say "yeah, but I don't think those are really human rights".

UVB-762• 12 years ago

I'm not assuming anything. As a European citizen my rights are enshrined in the ECHR.

In April the European Court of Justice ruled the previous 2006 Data Retention Directive invalid, stating that it severely interfered with two of these rights (the right to respect for private life and to the protection of personal data)

noja2• 12 years ago

Oh for fuck's sake, really. And the LibDems agreed to this? Fuck them too. WTF.

If anyone wants to fight this, please donate a few pounds a month to these guys, they're brilliant: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/join/

insky4• 12 years ago

And there I was feeling a little sorry for the LibDems after their euro defeat, hoping that they still had some sense of morality.

The main UK parties are siding this and fracking. The political landscape in Britain is looking very bleak.

smackay2• 12 years ago

All the more reason to encourage a vote for an independent Scotland on Sept 18th. You'll be doing Scotland a favour and there will be a friendly place to stay if things get too fucked up south of the border.

onion2k• 12 years ago

Labour agree to it too.

This is the government changing the law to make the illegal surveillance they do already "legal". Retaining and using the data they make telecomms companies keep used to be legal under EU law but the EU recently repealed said law, so now the government need something of their own.

hackerboos2• 12 years ago

Labour agree to it too.

Labour are not considered champions of personal privacy to the same degree the Lib Dems are...

pling3• 12 years ago

Fuck them all to hell.

I have nothing more to say.

knotty66• 12 years ago

Don't the security services have this data already? Through Tempora/XKeyscore etc. So national security should already be covered.

noja2• 12 years ago

"The government is tacitly admitting that our current data retention laws are illegal and that they are required to re-legislate..." - https://www.openrightsgroup.org/press/releases/threat-of-leg...

amirmc• 12 years ago

"More controversially the new law will also produce what is being described as a "clearer legal framework" to allow access to the content of calls, texts and emails after a warrant is signed by a senior government minister."

Government ministers can sign warrants? Is this new? It does not sound like a good idea.

pjc50• 12 years ago

The Home Secretary has a wide range of powers to authorize all kinds of things that aren't a good idea, like secret trials and "public interest immunity certificates". I believe they can also direct the Director of Public Prosecutions to prosecute (or not) crimes.

makomk• 12 years ago

For those who haven't been following UK politics, there used to be an EU-wide law doing this. That law was created and pushed for by a previous UK government, and the reason they did it as an EU law rather than a UK one was to avoid all the pesky democratic accountability involved in passing UK laws. The ECJ recently squashed the existing law, so they tried to sneak a UK one in by not telling most MPs about the vote and got publicly rumbled by Tom Watson MP last night.

pling3• 12 years ago

That's a perfectly good review of the situation.

You know when they try and sneak something in that the system is broken. The question we have to ask:

Do these people really represent our best interests at this point in time?

If the answer is no, something needs to be done, but over 100 years of population pacification (since the world wars) and the recent 30 years of entertainment-driven culture has sucked the energy away from any dissidents.

It's all working nicely for everyone, until one day it doesn't.

insky4• 12 years ago

The energy is still there, it's just misdirected.

PM_Tech• 12 years ago

Thank you for that insight. I couldn't upvote it enough.

tomp• 12 years ago

This is how "democracy" works. Courts declare something illegal. Government changes the laws. All without the consent of the ruled.

joosters2• 12 years ago

"...all-party talks agreed that this law would enshrine existing rights and not be used to extend them..."

I am certain that they will sneak more powers into this bill than they had before.

peteretep3• 12 years ago

Can you give more details on who "they" are, and any insight you have in to the nefarious schemes they're hatching?

joosters2• 12 years ago

The government, police and security services.

I never mentioned any 'nefarious schemes' so you appear to have filled that in yourself. My guess is that GCHQ and others have demanded more powers (some of which to cover stuff that they already did but they knew was illegal all along)

konradb• 12 years ago

"The law will include a so-called sunset clause - ensuring that these powers will die in 2016 - so there will be a longer and wider debate about what replaces them."

Because something has to replace them, right? Can't just not do anything. Got to keep the country safe... /s

pcrh• 12 years ago

This smells like a rat. They appear to be introducing this law to protect their current activities, which were declared "invalid" by the European Court of Justice.

The sunset clause is an attempt to prolong the debate to the point where the public loses interest, at which point all that needs to be passed in 2016 is a simple "confirmation of existing practice" for this to become permanent.

I wonder, though, how much the European Court's ruling is binding on the UK, and if they would fall foul of it if this law is passed.

Guejcjdsjrhdb• 12 years ago

Time to acquire a taste for victory gin...

ig1• 12 years ago

Write to your MP about this today - it has a much bigger impact than complaining on HN:

https://www.writetothem.com/

coob• 12 years ago

Sadly, the law will be passed before their researcher gets round to reading your letter.

hackerboos2• 12 years ago

their researcher

Read unpaid intern.

jsmcgd• 12 years ago

I just did this. I encourage everyone else who can to do the same. It may not have any effect now however it will let our representatives know that their actions are not going unnoticed and that we're unhappy.

Create• 12 years ago

We begin therefore where they are determined not to end, with the question whether any form of democratic self-government, anywhere, is consistent with the kind of massive, pervasive, surveillance into which the Unites States government has led not only us but the world.

This should not actually be a complicated inquiry.

http://snowdenandthefuture.info/events.html

Surveillance is not an end toward totalitarianism, it is totalitarianism itself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/europe-24385999

beaker52• 12 years ago

Any legislation they like is put through because the population are distracted by shiny iPhones and are too busy hating each other to notice or find the energy to take action in response. "Quick, let's get this through before the pedo news really dies out" (Britain is being fed news of pedophile celebrities and government ministers at the moment, causing 'outrage')

greenyoda• 12 years ago

I doubt that retaining this kind of information is going to make the UK any safer. The truly dangerous people are going to know that their calls and texts are being monitored, so they'll just start communicating in more secure ways: using VPNs or Tor to get to web sites in other countries, having face to face meetings, etc.

Just as in the U.S., the national surveillance apparatus is going to be used to go after drug dealers rather than terrorists, but the justification is always going to be "fighting terrorism", since that's what always seems to convince people to give up their civil liberties.

UK emergency phone and internet data storage law to be brought in

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