How to take down an F-117

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20051121.aspx

by TriinT • 17 years ago

125 98 17 years ago

strategypage.com

davidw2• 17 years ago

By flagging it?

rdtsc9• 17 years ago

> Zoltan never lost a radar to a HARM missile.

That is very impressive.

If he only had serious computing power, enough cell phone towers, and plenty of fiber-optic cable, he could have triangulated the position of steal bombers from the interference patterns.

Also, old Soviet radars operate on longer wavelengths and interestingly enough are sometimes more effective at detecting stealth aircraft.

TriinT9• 17 years ago

"Old Soviet radars operate on longer wavelengths and interestingly enough are sometimes more effective at detecting stealth aircraft."

The fuselage of the F-117 is covered with a top-secret radiation-absorbing paint. This paint is designed to operate over a certain range of frequencies, i.e., it's supposed to provide impedance matching over a certain frequency band (a bit like a thin-film in optics). Hence, if the enemy uses radars operating at frequencies for which the F-117 is not stealth, then there's a big problem. Using an old German radar from WW2 the F-117's radar signature is as big as the one of a non-stealth aircraft like the F/A-18.

BTW, Zoltan (who is a Serb of Hungarian ethnicity, as the name suggests) is now a baker:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolt%C3%A1n_Dani

gaius5• 17 years ago

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-10-26-serb-stealth_x...

"Dani said that his unit has had annual reunions on every March 27 since 1999 when a cake in the shape of the F-117 is served."

Nice!

gaius5• 17 years ago

Interesting article about how a few talented individuals on a shoestring budget can take on established, well-funded competitors.

jedc• 17 years ago

Definitely.

It's quite similar to what John Boyd and his acolytes have talked about regarding military strategy for years. I recommend "Certain to Win" by Chet Richards for a digestible summary.

pvg2• 17 years ago

Is it? It's very difficult to tell given the paucity of details. The 'well-funded, established competitor' was, for instance, able to extract the pilot within 8 hours. Beside the larger point that it was able to achieve its military and political objectives.

jobu• 17 years ago

A guy with 200 soldiers and a few $20K missiles brought down $60M worth of US equipment. In the big picture it had no effect, but most people enjoy the underdog story.

jacquesm5• 17 years ago

this is what the remainder looks like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:F-117_canopy.jpg

JacobAldridge• 17 years ago

He plastered the F-117 interface with so many ads and links to unrelated stories that it became so painful to navigate, read, and comprehend that the pilots sent the plane downward.

mct• 17 years ago

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-117_Nighthawk#Combat_losses, the wreckage is now on display at the Museum of Aviation in Belgrade.

ivankirigin• 17 years ago

I had heard the F-117 bomb bay doors failed to close, causing the stealth to be lost. That wasn't mentioned here though.

TriinT9• 17 years ago

Here's Lt. Col. Dale Zelko (the pilot of the F-117 that was shot down) telling what happened on the night of March 27th, 1999. It includes actual recordings of radio conversations (turn up the volume):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmqLyn4Q15U

akamaka2• 17 years ago

Cool article. I've also read that they used parts from ordinary household microwaves to create fake targets for the US anti-radiation missiles.

Something that's sorely lacking from the article is any information on US long-term strategy. Did the US air force use the full range of jamming and deception technology at their disposl, or were they content to lose a few planes to keep their true capabilities secret?

onreact-com2• 17 years ago

I still can't believe the US and NATO have bombarded Serbia which is a country in the heart of Europe. This just shows that any country can be attacked.

Btw. the reasons for invading Serbia back then have been debunked as propaganda later on in the same way the Iraq war excuses have been debunked. There were no Serbian concentration camps etc.

yangyang• 17 years ago

References?

onreact-com2• 17 years ago

http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/6017

JanezStupar• 17 years ago

Youre statements are propaganda (if any). I'm a citizen of one of countries of former republic of Yugoslavia. I know people from all involved countries. I've been to most of these countries and I know what are the facts of Serb agenda and what were the results.

They were no more victims than Germans in WW2.

Edit: About half of referenced article is truth and makes sense.

However article is taken out of context of 90' on balkans. IMHO NATO intervention had a lot to do with feeling of guilt of NATO members for allowing the Bosnia debacle. Most westerners don't understand that Kosovo is Serbian hallow ground and that they would exterminate Albanians without thinking twice (once they were already on rampage). Short term this was probably the only solution. Long term there will be more bloodbath in Kosovo.

giardini• 17 years ago

That's a lot of work to shoot down one or two planes. Was he a good military leader? If you lose the battle but don't lose a single man then one might question your willingness to engage the enemy, a necessary unpleasantry of war.

His men undoubtedly most appreciated him because he kept them out of combat and alive.

And was the plane detected/shot down because of the defenders' skills or were there plane malfunctions, etc.?

mattmaroon2• 17 years ago

I've read in the past that he didn't actually hit the F-117. That unit has no radar warning for incoming missile. The pilot saw one coming in, giving him only a few seconds to react, and he ejected. The missile would not have hit the plane.

pvg2• 17 years ago

That's not quite what the pilot says. This is from an interview -

Lt. Col. Dale Zelko - The first missile went right over the top of me. So close, actually, that I was surprised it didn’t proximity fuse on me. I could feel the shock wave of it buffeting the aircraft. As soon as it went over I quickly re-acquired the second missile visually and when I did, I thought: “It’s goin’ to run right into me.” And it sure felt like it did.

RFA - So it was a direct hit?

Lt. Col. Dale Zelko - It may have proximity fused, I don’t know absolutely. In theory, if it didn’t have a warhead in it, if it was just a harpoon or a tree trunk, would it have gone through my aircraft? I don't know for certain. But if you look at the photos of the wreckage my entire left wing is missing. [...] The impact was extremely violent and slammed the aircraft into a left roll, negative g tuck. I estimate seven, if not more negative Gs which is enormous.

mattmaroon2• 17 years ago

I guess the pilot of the aircraft probably has better information than whoever wrote whatever I read on the net somewhere years ago.

CamperBob• 17 years ago

I don't know about the USAF, but that particular combat tactic gets you a royal ass-chewing in Wing Commander.

run4yourlives11• 17 years ago

I would argue that the point you make is irrelevant. Col. Zoltan did enough to both prevent the aircraft form flying its mission and score a big -1 on the depth chart for the US.

Double win.

electronslave4• 17 years ago

This article provides no information about shooting stealth aircraft out of the sky with surplus Soviet weapons.

I claim false advertising and would like my 30 seconds back.

run4yourlives11• 17 years ago

Just get your hands on one of these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-7

1. Turn on 2. Point 3. Shoot 4. Run away.

electronslave4• 17 years ago

On a related note, I have a special place in my heart for this beast:

http://www.controller.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1084742

How to take down an F-117

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