How A Forum Site Grew Monthly Revenue From $400 to $400,000

http://mixergy.com/warren-jolly-affiliate-media/

by corlapa • 17 years ago

38 23 17 years ago

All I get is a box with:

    Type your comment here.

Am I missing something?

p_h• 17 years ago

Works for me

ujjwalg• 17 years ago

http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

RiderOfGiraffes2• 17 years ago

You've confused me. I'm familiar with the guidelines, but I've gone and re-read them to be sure, and I still don't see why you've pointed me at them. Would you be so kind as to be more specific?

More particularly, I was civil, I wasn't disagreeing,, I didn't introduce a classic flamewar, I didn't sign the comment, I didn't use uppercase for emphasis, I didn't complain that the submission was inappropriate, I didn't say HN was turning into Reddit, and I didn't complain about being downmodded.

Finally, it wasn't flame bait.

What do you think I've done wrong?

EDIT: It wasn't me that downmud you.

fizx• 17 years ago

Seems to be a teaser. Feels dirty/sploggy.

Mark_B• 17 years ago

Agreed. Something about the combination of "Online Casino" + "Affiliate Programs" registers more than a few points on my smarminess meter.

brandnewlow2• 17 years ago

1. Start a forum.

2. Invent some certification program that doesn't make a lot of sense for people running sketchy businesses.

3. ???

4. $400,000/month!

there• 17 years ago

actually step 1 for him wasn't even starting the forum, he bought it from someone else.

noodle• 17 years ago

executive summary:

build a forum community, talk to the community about what they need, build something around their needs, and sell it to them. they don't want to buy it? ask why not, and fix it.

OmarIsmail• 17 years ago

Nice headline, but not really an accurate portrayal of what really happened. Definitely a "marketing" story more that sounds a lot nicer to tell and hear than the nitty gritty that actually went on. If you look at the stats of the forum they get very little traffic (relatively), and the forum itself is pretty barren.

Therefore, I highly highly doubt that the majority of the revenue is coming from the community itself. Rather, it sounds like the forum is a legitimizing component that is essentially a front for the money making schemes behind the back.

This happens a lot with affiliate and domain sites.

You have some lucrative affiliate relationships that you can hardcore SEM against, however you need a site that looks good if the advertisers ever check you out. So what they do is usually purchase a respectable site, has the air of a community, looks good, etc. And then they have this shadow site that runs off the same domain that they arbitrage against with pages that are super ad/affiliate heavy and make tons of money.

Combining a legit domain/site with an SEM shadow site is also useful for making sure your AdWord rates stay lower. If your domain has more authority and natural SEO traffic/PR then it seems like Google won't charge you as much to get higher SEM listings.

It's actually a "simple" model and can be EXTREMELY lucrative. However, it doesn't really add much value to the world, and they can go out of business in an instant if the CPC rates change in any direction.

zaidf2• 17 years ago

However, it doesn't really add much value to the world, and they can go out of business in an instant if the CPC rates change in any direction.

- It's unfair to mix this guy's business success with your views on online gambling("doesn't really add much value").

- There are plenty of sites that would go away in a click if google decides to close their adsense account for whatever reason. At least this guy is diversified across the industry--meaning his revenue comes from few hundred different partners.

delackner• 17 years ago

What is unfair about saying that he prefers to look for successful business methods that feel like they contribute value to the world? I'd sure rather make good money contributing than make stratospheric money being a parasite.

sireat• 17 years ago

I think you might be right that there is a shadowy side, however, where is that shadow site, that is, anyone have a specific link on CAP page to the dirty stuff?

Taking a casual look at CAP, it looks amazingly clean(and legitimate looking) for a gambling oriented site.

jacquesm• 17 years ago

The forum site does not have that revenue, the product sold to the members of the forum does.

The original title is a lot better.

kitcar2• 17 years ago

Let me summarize this video for you and save you some time:

1) Guy makes some good money in the "sewers" of Internet Marketing during the boom years (using search engine spam tactics to gather traffic, resell it to the .com startups for inflated prices, then moves on to "finance and other" affiliate programs)

2) Guy gets involved in domain name squatting. Runs into some issues, doesn't pan out.

3) Guy gets involved in "gaming marketing" - online casinos. Makes good money as casino are cash-rich businesses. But it turns out that casino marketing is a seedy business!

4) Develops "Casino Affiliate Program" certification program. Make money off the Casinos - the guys with the money - rather than the affiliates - most of who are just trying to follow get rich quick ebooks they bought from an adwords ad.

Only part of his story that is missing is (my guess): - Selling porn/Acai berries/Loan Consolidation leads - Spamming email lists/search engines

Good for him for making tons of cash online. Maybe not the most noble of businesses, might not be for me, but alas, each person has their own goals.

My take away: easier to make money off rich firms than poor individuals.

pbhj• 17 years ago

"My take away: easier to make money off rich firms than poor individuals."

A worthy insight IMO, one of those 'I know it but it helps to be reminded' comments.

mrkurt• 17 years ago

That site (mixergy.com) gives me that oily feeling that only comes from visiting a skeezy site. I don't know what it is about the site or the guy who's in every video, but gah.

fallentimes• 17 years ago

Andrew's a good guy; I just think he resides at the the opposite end of the spectrum compared to most of the readers of Hacker News. Although some of the tactics expressed in the interviews make me shake my head, many more have been entertaining and informative.

It's always interesting to see people's reactions when they see how the sausage is made in the kitchen (look at this thread). This is especially true when it comes to businesses in highly competitive markets like cars, computers, coupons, software, tickets, finance, marketing and insurance. Many big brands are just as guilty as anything this guy talks about (e.g. AOL's love.com, BMW SEO spamming, the shady stuff that goes on with Google PPC, the amount of paid links almost any consumer-facing Fortune 500 co buys). They're usually just better at PRing a cover up and/or keeping it behind the curtains. It's one of the joys of being a public company: massive consequences for failure to satisfy short-term earnings expectations and a huge incentives to employ shady tactics to ensure that doesn't happen.

Edit: Here's an example more closely related to venture capital. Guess who two of Cash4Gold.com's biggest investors are? General Catalyst and Highland Capital Partners. You won't find Cash4Gold on their portfolio pages.

Or maybe even more telling: look at all the major companies that have affiliate programs. The companies know what they're getting in to; they're just outsourcing the dirty work.

brandnewlow2• 17 years ago

Agree 100% about the typical Mixergy interview being terrific. The Reddit and OJByrne interviews were great. This one's just too sketchy for my tastes.

nekopa• 17 years ago

For all the spamminess of the content, I did see something useful in there. You get the door slammed in your face 50 times, don't give up. Try to learn why it's happening. I've seen a lot of chat here recently about needing more info on why start ups fail. And there has been some good articles put up too. Even though I think his biz model is sleazy, I like the fact he kept going until he got it right. I hope that when my start up launches, and I get rejected over and over again I have the fortitude to learn from my mistakes, adjust and try again. And if needs be, rinse, repeat.

AndrewWarner• 17 years ago

I might be too close to this interview because I feel like I'm missing the sketchiness that you guys caught.

My understanding is that Warren's site works because networks like CJ.com, which do things like ensure that affiliates get paid, won't cover the casino industry. So Warren filled in the gap. He helps ensure that affiliates get paid and that affiliate managers find new sites to work with.

Before we did the interview, I pre-interviewed him, checked him out with trusted friends, and confirmed his company's revenue with Inc Magazine.

If I missed something, please email or call me: mail(at)awarner(dot)com or 650-450-4098

kitcar2• 17 years ago

Basically if you've ever worked in the affiliate business, either as a publisher or an advertiser, you pick up on specific terms which are used when talking about not-so-nice activities in "nice" conversations. There were lots of those terms said in this interview.

It's not a reflection on this guy in particular (although he did openly admit to spamming search engines - "doorway pages" is one of those key terms), its the affiliate business as a whole. As he says in the video - it's about the leads, not the product. I get you customers - it's your problem what to do with them. Your product doesn't work as advertised? Not my problem - I just lead the person to your doorstep - it's your responsibility what you do with them.

Read a few discussions on WickedFire.com (a popular affiliate forum) and you will quickly understand what I mean...

zaidf2• 17 years ago

Sketchy industry does not equal sketchy guy.

Irony is, for those that watched the video, this guy turned the sketchiness of the industry to his advantage and made a whole business out of certifying these online casinos.

I really enjoyed it. In future, please ask him(or other folks you interview!) about how they scale the salesforce for the businesses that have one. I am at a point where I am able to launch something, may be even make some money from it, but find it challenging to scale.

How A Forum Site Grew Monthly Revenue From $400 to $400,000

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