Uber protest gridlocks London

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-27799938

by ewood • 12 years ago

40 59 12 years ago

pdubs• 12 years ago

"Despite the protest Uber said it had seen the number of people downloading its app increase by 850% compared to last Wednesday."

Uber gets some free publicity it seems.

cushychicken• 12 years ago

Cabbies here in Boston did a similar thing last month - circled the block Uber's office was in honking and making a racket. The two foremost reactions I got from it were, "It was impossible to get a cab in Boston that day", and "Why would acting like disruptive children make me sympathize with you?"

jacquesm2• 12 years ago

The Streisand effect at work. I can see all those people thinking: these cabs are blocking me, I must find that one company that still drives, what was it called again?

Uber will be picking up a ton of business in London because of this. I imagine some bottles are being uncorked at Uber HQ because of this spectacularly stupid response. It's never clever to try to resolve your commercial disputes by punishing your paying customers.

And technically it's not an 'Uber protest' but an 'Anti-Uber protest'.

nathanbarry• 12 years ago

My thought exactly. Last time I was in London Uber didn't seem to have that many cars (I think they just had Uber Lux). Hopefully that increases quickly!

mrkipling• 12 years ago

This must have been a while ago. You rarely have to wait more than a few minutes for a car.

tomp• 12 years ago

I don't think their goal is to influence the people; rather, it's to influence the government. I mean, it looks like the protests have some power - after 3 tube strikes, the 4th was cancelled, I assume they made some kind of a deal.

jacquesm2• 12 years ago

Yes, but there is no viable alternative for the tube, for taxis there is. It's a nice illustration of cutting of the nose to spite the face.

viraptor3• 12 years ago

It looks like Uber hasn't activated the surge pricing either... Maybe the requests haven't crossed a threshold, maybe they disabled it on purpose for some time. I'm curious, but we'll probably not find out.

(I think I see more cars on the map than usual though)

stdgy2• 12 years ago

Since the strikes were first announced last month, downloads of Uber’s smartphone app have skyrocketed, according to the technology research company App Annie, which tracks smartphone downloads.

In Britain, Uber’s app rose to the second spot on Tuesday in the travel section of Apple’s download store, while it ranked fifth on Google’s Play store for phones using the Android operating system.

A similar trend is appearing in other places in Europe.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/06/11/taxi-protests-again...

Looks like it's already happening. I have a hard time seeing this end well for the taxi companies.

gutnor• 12 years ago

Not quite sure. Unlike US ( at least according to HN readers experience ), most of the booking side features of Uber have been available for years in London. GPS tracking, pre-pay, price compare, ...

I guess the problem is on the driver side. Black Cabs had the same battle a decade ago with the minicabs / private hire. The result have not been bad from a consumer point of view: all minicab service now have mandatory car inspection, driver and insurance inspection checks. I guess Uber style is able to workaround and that pisses off the cabbies ?

Uber is not cheaper than the taxi service I have been using for years. Not quite sure what's the business model of Uber in London and why would people rush to it.

note: The main difference between regular black cabs and other regulated taxi services is that only the Black Cab can pick people up in the street and at Station and Airport pickup points. Minicab need to be booked in advance, which nowadays, means the taxi will come at your GPS coordinates within 10-20 min.

Edit: well according to other comments, it happens. I guess that's why I will never be a startup billionaire, I don't understand people.

ddalex2• 12 years ago

I would be pissed too if I would be tightly regulated, but my concurrent wouldn't be because "they are on the internet". It strikes me as deeply unfair, Uber is basically a cab on demand - no difference in service to a regular cab.

Why shouldn't they be regulated ?

bj0• 12 years ago

Maybe a better question is why should the black cabs be regulated so much?

Nursie5• 12 years ago

> The Streisand effect at work. I can see all those people thinking: these cabs are blocking me, I must find that one company that still drives, what was it called again?

There are literally hundreds of private hire services in London, so Uber are not anywhere close to being the 'one company left driving'

However this is free publicity for them, all the same, yes.

adamio2• 12 years ago

They should be improving their service or reducing prices. If you want to lose, protesting, blocking traffic, and eliminating service is how you do it.

Nursie5• 12 years ago

They can't. They have legal restrictions on how they have to operate which Uber either don't have to obey or don't think they have to obey.

This is what the protest is about. Not just "OMG competition!"

adamio2• 12 years ago

Beyond set fares, what legal restrictions are keeping them from improving service?

justinreeves• 12 years ago

Yeah, seems like a lot of people are jumping straight to the comment section based on the headline.

air• 12 years ago

They probably also oppose any easing of those restrictions.

im3w1l• 12 years ago

So "OMG competition from people without The Knowledge" then?

stdgy2• 12 years ago

I don't think that is what these protests are about at all. For instance, in France, the protest leaders have called on instituting required time-delays for all Uber pickups(15 minutes). They've also called for a nationalized taxi hailing application that would exclude Uber, and have called for Uber's app to be disallowed from showing driver locations.

Similarly, Britain's protesters have demanded Uber to do away with fare estimates.

Notice how these complaints aren't in the form of: Let us do what Uber is doing. Rather, they take the form: Stop letting Uber do what it's doing. The Taxi owners want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to continue to protect their business models by placing artificial limits on competition, and they seek to disallow novel technology that would make their fare structure less opaque.

neves• 12 years ago

I Brazil I also spent 1h more to go to work due to an Uber Protest. They were maybe 20 cabs, enough to stop a main street. I hate you guys!

antihero2• 12 years ago

Why on earth wouldn't normal taxi regulations apply to Uber? Surely it should be counted as essentially a cab company with a fancy app, and this would solve all of these issues?

There seems to be a distinct lack of compassion for drivers who are basically just trying to make enough money to feed their family - my dad was a cabbie for a stint. The drivers themselves are not greedy fat-cats that are using the regulations to hoard money.

The problem is, large companies have less overheads and thus can crush local competition. Perhaps this is more efficient, but not necessarily ethical or good in the long run - for instance take Tescos or Sainsburys. They've crushed local competition which cannot compete on price (because of various unethical tactics used in their supply chain which they can do due to being utterly massive), so local competition has to raise prices or go bust, and residents stop being able to afford their produce.

In fact, this is a great example of why capitalism isn't always great - it makes the biggest, baddest kid in the playground able to do what they want and tread on the little guys, and then everyone becomes stuck with them, resulting in poorer produce, less consumer choice, and the destruction of family businesses and trades.

It favours efficiency and ruthlessness, which aren't necessarily qualities that are good for anyone except shareholders.

The counter-argument would be that if people cared enough about local businesses, they'd support them, but when people are getting squeezed as they are (and remember, large companies push wages down as much as possible because they simply do not care about their workers), this becomes difficult or even impossible - and remember, capitalism incentivises the most efficient, cheapest option.

So go ahead, with the free market, allow ruthlessness and size to dominate, enjoy a soulless, miserable world dominated by giants.

gedrap3• 12 years ago

That's just a guess, but maybe good lawyers combined with slow bureaucratic processes?

antihero2• 12 years ago

I'm sure. And I'm not saying that the taxi companies are 100% in the right, but there's a question of balance - fair competition versus the careers/families that would lose out.

There are better, more ethical ways to do something.

dkokelley2• 12 years ago

Why on earth wouldn't normal taxi regulations apply to Uber? Surely it should be counted as essentially a cab company with a fancy app, and this would solve all of these issues?

In many areas, taxi supply is regulated. The fact is Uber can't be like a taxi because the laws restrict or prohibit more taxis. The analogy Uber would prefer you use is that they are a private car service, like a toned down limo with an app.

gedrap3• 12 years ago

>>> Black cab driver Bernie Doyle, 68, said: "<..> I've been driving 42 years and I'm not about to see my trade go down the pan."

And that is the problem, Mr Doyle. The world has changed a lot in 42 years. But the cabs business didn't.

Haven't tried Uber in Manchester yet, but regular cabs are between "I just want to get out" and "bearable". Driver is usually on the phone talking foreign language, or if you are less lucky, always running on red lights, especially when the demand is high. I don't want a royal treatment, no, but at least some basic things. What I heard from friends about Uber, it doesn't have those problems.

coherentpony6• 12 years ago

I'm interested to see how Uber will be regulated by the UK government.

Taxi companies are regulated for extremely good reasons. I know people sing Uber's praises but regulations exist for good reasons. Some exist for bad reasons too but they are largely there to protect people.

Would you get in a stranger's car?

And to preempt the downvoters: I'm not saying I don't want competition. I want competition and safety for the general public.

viraptor3• 12 years ago

Would you get in a stranger's car?

Yes. And I do that when I get into any cab.

This is one argument I never understood. People providing taxi-like services for other people need additional licenses for street safety - sure. But what can be safer apart from that? The person inside could just as well have just stolen the car. They are complete strangers.

michaelt• 12 years ago

This is one argument I never understood.

As I understand it, regulation of private hire vehicles is motivated by regular rapes of attractive, young, drunk women on the way home from nights out.

With that said, as long as Uber verifies that all drivers have the correct vehicle and driver license and background checks [1] I don't see how they're any different to Addison Lee and those.

[1] www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/become-a-private-hire-licensee

coherentpony6• 12 years ago

This is one argument I never understood. People providing taxi-like services for other people need additional licenses for street safety - sure. But what can be safer apart from that?

It appears I wasn't very clear. The checks and balances that are done by a private company are allowed to be less rigorous than government-enforced regulations. This doesn't just mean that additional licences are needed, it means that extra regulations need to be adhered to. Of course, a private company can choose to go above and beyond these regulations if they so choose, and Uber may even do this.

hahainternet• 12 years ago

Taxi companies are regulated for extremely good reasons. I know people sing Uber's praises but regulations exist for good reasons. Some exist for bad reasons too but they are largely there to protect people.

From what I can tell, they are fully registered as private hire cars. The ones I've seen in Manchester have the same taxi branding as any other.

coherentpony6• 12 years ago

From what I can tell, they are fully registered as private hire cars. The ones I've seen in Manchester have the same taxi branding as any other.

Is it the case they have to be, though? That's where the argument breaks down here. I'm not saying Uber don't go above and beyond what's necessary to provide a safe service, I'm saying that regulation provides assurances (to a certain degree) to the patrons of this service.

Stately• 12 years ago

Why can't we just do like they do in America? Uber's been there for a while now and it works incredibly well. Apparently Uber cabs are safer than minicabs:

http://blog.uber.com/chicagotaxicrime

coherentpony6• 12 years ago

The comparison with America is moot since it's the same company providing the service. It works the same way.

It works well in London too. The problem here is not that it doesn't work well. The problem is that the LTDA are protesting against a free market because now they have competition.

The link you posted was interesting. I'm glad Uber cited some good references. It's a shame it's focused on one city it would be nice to see aggregate data for several cities, and also for each city separately. London is also not quite as big as Chicago, and it's harder to get guns in the UK. There are a lot of factors involved in the comparison of crime between the US and the UK that are overlooked.

nemothekid2• 12 years ago

Would you get in a stranger's car?

I do, all the time.

coherentpony6• 12 years ago

I do, all the time.

Alright. Now would you let your daughter do it? I certainly wouldn't.

infogulch2• 12 years ago

What regulations provide what safety precautions? I'm genuinely interested.

I have a feeling that technology completely solves most of these problems. For example, there's a monopoly on the word "taxi" to prevent impersonation and kidnapping / mugging. But with technology your phone can tell you exactly what car is picking you up, from the model and color all the way down to the licence plate.

coherentpony6• 12 years ago

What regulations provide what safety precautions? I'm genuinely interested.

Is it the case one could pick up a minor? If so, are there CRB checks done on the drivers?

Taxi drivers need to pass an extra driving test to ensure an extremely high quality standard of driving. Does Uber do that?

Regulations don't necessarily make things safer, they provide assurances to the public that a minimum standard has to be attained. For taxi companies, this standard is rather high. I'm not saying Uber don't go above and beyond these, I'm saying they aren't forced to.

codeulike• 12 years ago

Actual title is 'London's anti-Uber taxi protest brings traffic to standstill' - in one place, for about an hour. That's a long way from 'gridlock'.

thecosas• 12 years ago

Ummmmm http://blog.uber.com/UberTAXI

bicubic3• 12 years ago

I think this is another sign that we need to start thinking about basic income now. The cabbies are understandably pissed because they've invested a lot of money into playing along with the cab companies and regulators. Additionally, I have a feeling that a lot of these people are poor drivers with poor language skills who wouldn't be able to compete with better people on Uber.

So what choice do they have but to protest and engage in rent seeking? If Uber succeeds, they'll be jobless. At the same time, Uber is preferred by consumers and as a society, we do want it to succeed and remove the need for taxi drivers to exist.

I think the only answer is basic income, and I think that over the next decade, more money will be spent on rent seeking to keep people in redundant jobs than if we eliminated those jobs and used the same money to fund their basic income.

jamespo2• 12 years ago

You're right they're pissed because it's a lot of time and money investment to drive a black cab but I wouldn't say they typically have poor language skills or are poor drivers, what makes you say that?

bicubic3• 12 years ago

Where I live (Australia/Melbourne), something like 95% of the taxi driver demographic are fresh immigrants from India with typically very poor language skills. I won't say they're unbearable, but I would definitely opt for someone with better language skills if I had the choice - something Uber facilitates.

ddalex2• 12 years ago

I don't get why Uber is better than taxi drivers - aren't they a taxi, as well ?

In London, they're cheaper than black cabs because they aren't regulated. If they're taxi, they should be regulated - same regulation, or lack of, for all.

I don't get why you think Uber is not a taxi ?

bicubic3• 12 years ago

I don't think it's better, but the signs are that the typical consumer does. If Uber wasn't perceived as better by consumers, it wouldn't be experiencing the tremendous growth it is and it wouldn't be a threat to the cab industry.

dkokelley2• 12 years ago

I upvoted you, but I disagree with your conclusion. Certain jobs get made redundant all of the time. Your argument is based on the presumption that taxi drivers are as a whole unable to do any other work, so they must protect their source of income or be provided with a basic income if/when their need is obsoleted.

In America we have a form of basic income through social security, welfare, unemployment compensation, food stamps, etc. I won't go so far as to say these programs are near perfect, but their intent is correct. These programs are designed to A) provide temporary assistance for individuals who are unable to support themselves due to work changes (i.e. layoffs due to redundancy), and B) to provide long-term support for individuals who are permanently unable to care for themselves (i.e. work-related injury/disability).

The basic income as you've described it presumes taxi drivers to fall under class 'B'. I would put the drivers under class 'A'. They will need support if they are made redundant, but they can, should, and will retrain eventually and find new employment.

Nursie5• 12 years ago

Strangely enough, this just seems to be a London thing. In Southampton we have a variety of cab companies, they all use meters and a few of them have apps to order them and track where the car is right now.

mrfusion• 12 years ago

So I checked out uber for the first time this week to see what all the fuss is about, and it actually seems more expensive than a cab. Can anyone explain why it's so popular?

Bonus points: why is it so expensive? It seems like most non-professional drivers would be happy charging a lot list than a cab charges, especially if it's somewhere you're going anyway.

optymizer• 12 years ago

UberX is about 50% cheaper than cabs in Boston. Uber Black is about 30% more expensive.

Source: I've been using Uber almost daily for a year.

pmorici• 12 years ago

Which Uber service did you use? They have several you can select from though some cities only have the original Uber, UberBlack. There is UberPOP, UberX, UberBlack, UberSUV, UberVan, and UberLux.

UberX is the service that competes with cabs on price. Uber Black, SUV, VAN, and Lux are comparable to calling a limo service. Uber Pop is a low cost service offered outside of the US.

Theodores• 12 years ago

With public transport there is this concept of service, the service exists to get people from A to B in a timely, affordable fashion. There are wider benefits to society and the economy for doing this.

With this Uber protest and the way this battle is working out there has been remarkably little discussion on how technology and tradition can be aligned to move people from A to B more efficiently. It should be possible to have people have a step change in service thanks to modern technology with cab drivers able to profit more than they used to by being able to take more passengers. We could also cut down on the amount of cabs rolling around looking for rides.

We actually need some strong leadership in London to cut a deal. A deal where getting a cab is easier and cheaper for normal people, where taxi drivers make more money than previously (and still get respect for doing the knowledge), where the air quality is better and where tax revenue for London increases too. This is a problem that can be solved. If government had any technical competency then they would have seen this off a long time ago with their own 'uber' app, one where the 5% (or whatever it is that Uber get) goes straight into government coffers as taxation. Such a public sector app - had it been written - could have been shared with cities all over the world that are having problems with Uber.

infogulch2• 12 years ago

All the old monopolies are being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century. Most of the problems they were needed for no longer even exist in a world with technology.

Whether they can warp the original regulations meant to protect consumers into a superfluous protection racket to prop up their outdated, inefficient business models is still up in the air.

Uber protest gridlocks London

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