That one pixel

http://blog.talles.me/that-one-pixel.html

by talles • 12 years ago

157 85 12 years ago

blog.talles.me

brownbat• 12 years ago

Chrome's tabs are full height when Chrome is in full screen, but not when vertically maximized in Windows 7.

Anyone who snaps windows to the side of the screen might run into a similar problem, though the visual gap is much more apparent since it's much larger than a pixel, so it's far less confusing.

http://min.us/i/2OQX0psw5rP0

nakovet• 12 years ago

He mentioned in full screen for sure.

pugz• 12 years ago

Fitts' law[1] is relevant here; if that pixel was clickable, it would be _considerably_ easier to click on the button.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law

woah• 12 years ago

Actually, in this case, the target of the top of the screen is actually infinite in one direction. The mouse pointer will stop moving there, and it's as if the tab is infinitely tall.

hueving• 12 years ago

RTFA. The topmost part ISN'T clickable.

baddox• 12 years ago

That's such an obvious and disastrous user interface bug that I presume it's the result of some specific process rather late in the software build process (perhaps only on some platforms). Otherwise, I can't imagine any of Opera's user interface testers not noticing this.

raldi• 12 years ago

Similarly, Windows 95’s Start Menu ripped off the Mac's apple menu, but with a fatal flaw: if you slammed the cursor all the way into the corner, unlike on the Mac, you would be unable to click the button.

Hoffmannnn• 12 years ago

This is definitely on purpose. The author's use case is, they want to switch tabs, and they want to do so by simply move the mouse to the top of the screen and clicking.

MY use case is, I want to quickly move the maximized window around between monitors, or to drag it away from the top, and thus de-maximize it. The way every other application does it, is by leaving a title bar at the top, which you can click and drag.

If I instead wanted to switch tabs, I would use the usual shortcuts, ctrl tab and ctrl shift tab. In my mind, this is a better option than breaking the "move window by clicking titlebar" behavior.

kijin5• 12 years ago

Why can't we have the best of both worlds?

If the user clicks on the topmost pixel and immediately releases the button, they're probably trying to click on a tab. If the user moves the mouse while holding the button, they're probably trying to drag the whole window.

jQuery UI allows me to make things both clickable and draggable, and it always understands which of the two actions I'm trying to perform. There's no reason why a native app shouldn't be able to implement a similar feature.

TeMPOraL• 12 years ago

Why can't we have the best of both worlds?

Because then the UI will be confusing - the same place and action (clicking in the top) will affect either application or window manager. Also, sometimes you want to drag tabs around to e.g. reorder them or move to a new window.

regularfry3• 12 years ago

If they move the mouse while holding the button, how do you tell the difference between trying to move the window, and trying to move just that one tab?

oe• 12 years ago

Which use case do you think happens more frequently?

rwallace• 12 years ago

No, it's not. De-maximizing a window can be done in O(1) operations by other methods (click the widget at the top right of the window, or alt-space to get the keyboard menu) whereas if you have a bunch of tabs open, navigating to an arbitrary one with ctrl-tab takes O(N) operations, so clicking on a tab should take precedence.

simulate2• 12 years ago

Joel Spolsky wrote about something similar with Microsoft missing its Start button placement by two pixels:

the Windows 95 team missed the point completely with the Start push button, sitting almost in the bottom left corner of the screen, but not exactly. In fact, it's about 2 pixels away from the bottom and 2 pixels from the left of the screen. So, for the sake of a couple of pixels, Microsoft literally "snatches defeat from the jaws of victory", Tog writes, and makes it that much harder to acquire the start button.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000063....

(edited link to point to second article in Spolsky's series)

randlet• 12 years ago

You've got an off by one error in your link!

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000063....

simulate2• 12 years ago

Thanks! I have edited and corrected the problem.

zaroth2• 12 years ago

Was it GOMS back in the early 80s which was the first to teach putting the most important and frequently accessed buttons in the corners so they are easy to click by over-reaching with the mouse?

regularfry3• 12 years ago

Fitts's Law goes back to the 50's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law

trylleklovn• 12 years ago

This was also the case with minimized applications in Windows 95 and as such you could click below the box.

In Windows 98 they realized the mistake - but in a typical Microsoft way of solving things, instead of simply making the area clickable below they instead forced the mouse up by 2-3 pixels every time you decided to be so silly as to try and click below the box.

Coincoin• 12 years ago

I believe there is a technical reason for that 2 pixel move. If I remember correctly, old 16 bits applications can receive mouse messages from minimized windows. They didn't want to break compatibility by posting out of bounds messages.

phkahler• 12 years ago

Don't encourage this way of thinking too much. The gnome folks seem to think "hot corners" are awesome because they are easy to hit with a mouse. The problems is that they are also making something that looks like a touch interface, where the corners are awkward if at all possible to hit. Not to mention they lack visual ques. That said, the w95 start button probably should have extended to the corner.

delinka• 12 years ago

I never noticed, because I always used the keyboard to get at the start menu. Come to think of it, when I learned all the keyboard commands to manipulate windows, I only ever used the mouse in rare circumstances.

itsame2• 12 years ago

Is that really a bug as others are saying? I've always thought of it as making the inverse of the Windows 7 drag-to-top-of-screen-to-maximize (restoring the window) easier, and prefer it that way. More generally, it makes it easier to drag the whole window around again after maximization.

In some sense, it makes Opera at least somewhat more consistent with other regular Windows applications that don't mess around with the titlebar. I actually find it annoying that there's no quick way to manage the maximized browser windows in Chrome or Firefox other than to click that button in the standard window chrome to restore the window, and then proceed.

gliptic• 12 years ago

Except Win+Up/Win+Left/Win+Right/Win+Down then?

itsame2• 12 years ago

Well... sure, I guess, but although I wasn't direct about it in my above comment, the whole discussion was about mouse control right?

If we want to discuss keyboard shortcuts, then Ctrl+Tab/Ctrl+Shift+Tab/Ctrl+W/Ctrl+T are quick tab management shortcuts that bypass mouse control as well, and that one pixel at the top that makes tab switching by mouse annoying for talles would be rather moot.

thunderbong• 12 years ago

I notice this happens only when the window is maximized, since otherwise you have gap above the tabs.

I don't think it's a bug. I think is is done so that you can move the window by dragging that one pixel bar.

In both Firefox and Chrome if you want to move the window when you have the window maximized, dragging on the top of the tab detaches the tab from the current window. The only way to move the window is to move the cursor to a space where you don't have a tab or by clicking on the restore button (the middle button on top right).

When you have lots of tabs open then there is no blank space on the right of the tabs to hold the window and move it.

Usually, I've noticed Opera users to have lots and lots of tabs open, which doesn't leave any blank space on the right of the bar. At that time this one pixel is a life saver to move the window without needing to go all the way to the top right to restore the window.

leephillips• 12 years ago

"The only way to move the window is to move the cursor to a space where you don't have a tab"

This may be true in whatever window manager you're using, but it's not true for all of them, including the one I use (dwm). Better window managers let you move and resize windows without having to click on special places that may or may not be provided by the programs that draw the windows.

jkrems• 12 years ago

The article is talking about Windows 8. I'm pretty sure most people use the default window manager on Windows. :)

sigsergv• 12 years ago

It's a feature and could be tuned via preferences: http://superuser.com/questions/509354/putting-opera-tab-mana...

zaroth2• 12 years ago

Never has the difference between "adding a feature" and "adding a setting" been more apparent. :-)

http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/M/misfeature.html

Maxious• 12 years ago

Ah yes "ChromeIntegrationDragAreaMaximized". Why didn't I think of enabling that by setting it's integer value to 1!

sixothree3• 12 years ago

It is exposed via a simple checkbox in the settings screen. Is that still too difficult to use?

Seldaek• 12 years ago

Also note that it's available through the regular settings UI (opera://settings/) if you enable advanced settings under User Interface you will find "Disable tab bar's top spacing when browser window is maximized".

bicubic2• 12 years ago

That one pixel is how all windows applications should work. I've been an Opera user for a long time and at some point that one pixel was the only thing stopping me from moving to chrome.

Here's the deal: when you have multiple monitors, the windows mechanic of click+dragging a full screen application's titlebar is the best way to shift applications from screen to screen. With Opera, I just throw my mouse to the top of the screen and drag. With Firefox and Chrome, I have to search out a tiny 20 pixel wide hitbox between the end of the tabs and the minimize button to start the drag action. Every single windows application I've used respects this mechanic, except for Chrome and Firefox. I actually brought this up with the Firefox UI team on reddit and they agreed that it's broken but evidently decided to keep it because people like OP now expect it.

I'm actually looking for a way to enable this on chrome/FF.

lelandbatey2• 12 years ago

If you're willing to try something even more odd, I'd recommend a window tiling program like Winsplit Revolution for automatic resizing and positioning of Windows in a much more finely controllable way that is allowed with Windows keyboard shortcuts by default.

I use 3 monitors and it helps me get around window management quirks entirely, while also making dealing with Windows much faster.

onli• 12 years ago

You should consider using another Window Manager. With Uniy, you could just drag the (prior) global menu, the panel at the top of the screen, and move the window like that. There are others that would force a normal titlebar there, so you could drag that.

regularfry3• 12 years ago

What's the more common action: selecting a tab, or moving a window to a different screen?

deathanatos• 12 years ago

Why not have a way for the window to convey to the window manager that it (the window) is primarily just a holder of tabs (as most browsers, and increasingly more applications, seem to be), and let the WM decide based on the user's preference what the correct behavior and display is?

bicubic2• 12 years ago

In an overall Windows user experience? Definitely moving windows between screens. Selecting tabs is a pretty niche and uncommon feature across the OS.

It's not about which action is more common, its about the fact that the titlebar drag gesture is universal cross windows 7/8 and is a key element of the user experience. There are exactly two apps I've used in the entire history of windows 7 that broke this interaction: Chrome and FF. The fault is on those browsers breaking expected behavior, not Opera for doing what windows users expect. The FF UX team admitted that they overlooked this but its understandable that they're keeping it as users have come to expect it.

Morgawr• 12 years ago

This is why I always use alt+drag to move windows around on my Linux system. I can't really live without.

A few years ago I moved back to Windows for some time and missed that behaviour that much that I ended up writing a small program in C++ that hooks into the windows API and injects that behavior. Never felt better in my life using windows (it also does other stuff like allow alt+right-drag to resize and the option to remove all windows borders).

Here's the program in case anybody is interested but keep in mind it can have a few bugs and I stopped using/working on it because I don't use Windows anymore. Not sure how well (if anything) it works on Windows 8+.

https://github.com/Morgawr/EmptyWM

stuaxo• 12 years ago

altdrag for windows is one of the first things I install, which only does that.

https://code.google.com/p/altdrag/

I also use true X mouse sometimes for the focus.

imiric• 12 years ago

It's also trivial to implement in AutoHotkey [1], which also adds the resize behavior, plus minimize/maximize/close. Don't use Windows without it.

[1] http://www.autohotkey.com/docs/scripts/EasyWindowDrag_(KDE)....

duiker101• 12 years ago

I love this comment. Not because I agree, I would actually prefer it without it. But because it's the perfect example of how hard is to get everyone happy. Pixel? Fullscreen users are not happy. No pixel? Multi-screen users are not happy. Make it a setting? Than you have to make settings for all and it gets messy/complicated!

karl42• 12 years ago

Ideally, this should be decided (or configured) by your window manager. But then, I also think that application tabs should be handled by the window manager somehow.

friendzis• 12 years ago

In windows 7 (skipped Vista) I'm using [Win]+Arrow to move windows around. With multi-monitor setup it is impossible to attach a window to one side of junction with a mouse anyway.

GotAnyMegadeth• 12 years ago

You can use the Windows key and the arrow keys to move windows around, maximise, minimise, etc...

cpayne624• 12 years ago

On Win, try [Win + Right/Left Arrow], or [Win + Shift + Right/Left Arrow]

jakub_g• 12 years ago

In Firefox 29+, you can activate Menu bar which is ~20px high if you want that draggable handle: right-click on an empty space in the top row (not occupied by a tab), or a "+" button, and tick "Menu bar".

I'm also using [Win]+[Shift]+arrows for moving between multiple monitors like others suggested.

chr13• 12 years ago

In firefox you can easily add a small bit of css to change that .tabbrowser-tab {padding-top: 0px !important; margin-top: 1px !important;}

Everyone wants and expects different kind of browser, that's why extensible apps fully written with web tech are awesome/

aplusplus• 12 years ago

There is a whole novel written about what one pixel can do and you should read it, Ellen Ullman: The Bug http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/138805.The_Bug

oneeyedpigeon3• 12 years ago

OSX is full of this sort of rubbish - I can't count the number of times I've moused over to the right side of the screen to scroll a window, only to start moving the whole goddam thing instead. Also related, OSX menu items have a gap between them; clicking on that gap closes the menu (I think). I cannot think of any good reason for that, only bad ones. It's infuriating when an OS gets so many usability things right, then falls down on the hugely obvious bits.

DougBTX• 12 years ago

Also related, OSX menu items have a gap between them; clicking on that gap closes the menu (I think).

There isn't a gap between every menu item, but clicking on the horizontal dividers or disabled menu items does close the menu without doing anything. The way that Windows does it seems better, there it does nothing at all, not even closing the menu.

oneeyedpigeon3• 12 years ago

Good point - it's only on menu dividers that this occurs. It just so happens that some menus (e.g. the main "Chrome" one) have a divider for every other item, and the dividers are about 10 pixels tall. I much prefer the Windows approach, but I'm not sure even that makes as much sense as just selecting whichever item is closest.

alco• 12 years ago

That's not one pixel. That's a line one pixel high and the whole tab bar wide.

__m• 12 years ago

I guess the designers of Opera didn't want to break the law (Fitt's law)

warcode• 12 years ago

In the Opera Next version I'm using this is enabled/disabled with a checkbox somewhere. Fairly sure it was disabled by default though.

phunehehe0• 12 years ago

Chrome was the first browser to handle that one pixel specially, and Firefox followed quickly (around version 4 or so). For some reason Opera never copies it.

It used to be a big deal when I spend most of my time with a single monitor. With dual monitors, Xmonad keeps a one-pixel border around the active window so "move the mouse all the way up and click" doesn't work anymore. You choose your own poison :)

Only when reading this thread that I realized there are people preferring Opera's behavior, which is kinda eye-opening.

ulber• 12 years ago

If anyone wants this behavior in Firefox then here is an extension for that: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/extra-padding...

0x0• 12 years ago

Counterexample: The new windows 8 hot corners makes it almost impossible to use in a non-fullscreen VM or remote desktop setup. :(

JacobIrwin• 12 years ago

Try learning the keyboard shortcut for switching between tabs - you get to keep you hand off the mouse this way :-)

lifeformed• 12 years ago

Sometimes I like leaning back in my chair and browsing one handed. Sometimes, it's the mouse hand, other times it's the keyboard handing (using shortcuts). Usually mouse hand though.

sixothree3• 12 years ago

For heaven's sake you can disable this in the configuration settings.

ColinDabritz• 12 years ago

How bizarre that they realized the issue, fixed it, and left it off by default. I can't think of one reason to leave the old behavior in.

The problem here is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law

This means that "one little pixel" is essentially infinitely high for purposes of mouse selection, and it makes hitting tabs much easier in this case.

chr13• 12 years ago

It's not that simple, if i want to move a tab i don't want to move any random tab, so i still have to aim horizontally, and effect of Fitts's Law is much smaller. I for one never tried to drag a tab from top one pixel. On the other hand for dragging a window horizontal precision doesn't matter much, and that one top pixel is really useful.

nogridbag• 12 years ago

When I first switched from Windows to OS X, I frequently had what I call the "Maximized Window Off by One Pixel" problem.

Since there is no "maximize" button on OS X, I would always manually maximize my browser window. But since humans are imperfect, occasionally I would resize the window 1px from the right edge. When I wanted to scroll down (without using the mouse wheel), I would flick the mouse cursor to the right edge of the screen and "click" to start the scrollbar drag, which of course would click a background window and infuriate the heck out of me. I have since adapted to never use the scrollbar.

That one pixel

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