Moving On

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/PayPal-Forward/Moving-On/ba-p/808862

by jhonovich • 12 years ago

40 32 12 years ago

paypal-community.com

danielweber3• 12 years ago

Context?

GregorStocks• 12 years ago

http://valleywag.gawker.com/paypal-exec-goes-on-twitter-spre...

Mandatum2• 12 years ago

https://twitter.com/rakeshlobster

smartician2• 12 years ago

Wow. Nervous breakdown, live on Twitter.

yuhong3• 12 years ago

Another thread with comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7691472

fiatmoney3• 12 years ago

It's extremely rare for a company to call out a former executive like this. On the other hand, it's extremely rare for an executive to go on a twitter rampage whilst "tired and emotional".

Also, it's really interesting how many senior corporate executives, politicians, etc. seem to be prone to manic-depressive episodes.

ams6110• 12 years ago

Tired and emotional? More like drunk off his ass in the French Quarter.

hft_throwaway• 12 years ago

It's a Britishism that's a more polite way of saying that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tired_and_emotional

FWIW it seems unlikely that this type of behavior would be brought about by drinking alone, especially once the media took notice. I known people who have made idiotic career-limiting moves while drunk (like brazenly hitting on the boss' daughter at a party) and they usually get deer-in-headlights embarrassed once someone wiser advises them to knock it off. Maybe drugs, stress, or some type of medical condition?

In any case whether caused by substance abuse or some other problem, it seems irresponsible to comment on publicly like this. It doesn't even have to be caused by mental illness in a traditional sense. There have been cases of people with brain tumors acting out in wacky ways. It's not really fair to disparage someone who's acting unusually and may not even be aware or in control of their behavior.

Or maybe it's just some bizarre attempt at "going viral", who knows these days?

NamTaf2• 12 years ago

That probably has something to do with how hopped to the gills many are on uppers in order to grind through constant productivity. Your standard 9-5 grunt probably doesn't have a crippling coke habit trying to work 18 hour days 7 days a week.

fiatmoney3• 12 years ago

That's interesting; I would think causality would go the other way. Many people end up self-managing their mood via drugs / alcohol (including depressants) even if they don't have jobs that require heightened energy. I would think that self-medication is a better explanation for why so many, eg, politicians have drinking problems, than that the booze is necessary for them to be able to politick for 18 hours a day.

TamDenholm• 12 years ago

Its actually kind of nice reading a blog post like this written by a human clearly insulted by the incident and standing up for their company, rather than a carefully crafted statement output by HR.

tdicola• 12 years ago

Yeah I wish most announcements from big companies were this frank and to the point. Sad that there have to be these crazy circumstances to bring this about.

silverlight• 12 years ago

Reading his current Twitter feed, this reminds me of something a friend of mine went through several years ago. We weren't in very good contact at the time and he told me about it later, but the way his psychiatrist described it to him it was a mental break that resulted in him acting like some sort of billionaire business tycoon, only without any actual money. E.g. making ridiculously bold claims, offering people massive job opportunities when there is actually no money to pay for them, etc. During this time he sent me a Facebook message telling me to get on the next plane to London because he was assembling a team to create a new business and offered me 10 times my salary at that time. Obviously I declined and asked if he was okay, at which point he simply ignored me and continued on that path. Eventually he got help.

Anyway, might not be the same thing, and I don't know what the "official" name for it is, but this stream of tweets definitely sounds exactly like what my friend was saying at the time.

Mandatum2• 12 years ago

Out of curiosity, how's your friend doing now?

fiatmoney3• 12 years ago

The name is mania. It's associated with manic-depressive disorder.

smartician2• 12 years ago

Interestingly, there's a documented link between mania and sleep deprivation. And he mentions his lack of sleep several times on his twitter.

Jagat• 12 years ago

Delusion of grandeur

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions

Grandiose delusions (GD) or delusions of grandeur is principally a subtype of delusional disorder that occurs in patients suffering from a wide range of mental illnesses, including two-thirds of patients in manic state of bipolar disorder, half of those with schizophrenia and a substantial portion of those with substance abuse disorders.

ar7hur• 12 years ago

Kudos to David Marcus for this smart, no-bullshit reaction. We need more human material and less PR shit from CEOs.

I understand that junior employees can sometimes go publicly against the company they just left, but that's really not something you expect from somebody who is supposed to be a seasoned, professional exec. Good luck for the rest of your career, Rocky, you'll need a lot of that -- which CEO is the world is willing to hire you again?

lmg643• 12 years ago

The guy was in New Orleans for jazz fest. One of the biggest parties there other than mardi gras. My first assumption is that he was totally drunk and can't handle his liquor well. Then I think, perhaps he was on something crazier, like bath salts. If either were the case, and you want to keep your job, take a page out of the celebrity playbook, blame the substance, go to rehab. Don't make statements trying to praise some colleagues and not others you insulted. Moronic to say the least. Unless it is some strange plan to draw attention to your next business. "Hi, I am a highly unstable individual with a possible substance abuse problem. Want to join my team and/or fund me?"

jwise0• 12 years ago

It's a shame that this had to go the way it did. If you read Rakesh's Twitter recently, it's pretty clear that something has gone dramatically and completely wrong -- and that is something that David alludes to in his blog post.

Obviously there can be no real clinical diagnosis of anything at all from a tweet stream, but what he's been posting really does scream "psychotic break" or "manic episode"; when people say things in those kinds of states, they might not be grounded on any real beliefs of theirs at all.

In an ideal world, it would be nice if the next thing that happened to him was for him to be placed on medical leave, surrounded by a community that supports his recovery; upon his return, a statement like "I'd lost my mind briefly, and obviously didn't mean anything that I said" could patch things up. This might not be that world today: as a society, we're remarkably bad at recognizing mental illness when it comes along, and we're not so good at dealing with it even when we figure it out.

So, PayPal did what it had to. A public firing is never a pretty thing, and maybe that was a little excessive, but I can certainly see where it comes from. Either way, I hope that this guy gets the help he needs -- and preferably sooner, rather than later.

danielweber3• 12 years ago

Everyone has issues. That sounds trite, but I mean it in a caring way. Him and you and me, we all have problems. Most of us, they don't manifest in such a way.

Sometimes the problems manifest in private ways that a company and its workers can absorb. Sometimes they manifest in public ways, or ways that emotionally or physically assault your clients or employees. It can really be total luck which circumstance happens when the problem manifests, but there are other people in the company who also need respect and to be cared for. Like I said at the start, those other employees have issues, too.

I feel bad for the guy who had the psychotic break and has to be let go. I do. But other people also need help before you needlessly put them into stressful conditions; maybe that would be the last straw for their own psychotic break.

(I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist.)

canadev• 12 years ago

Well said.

Something like this happened to me once. I am a pretty good dev and I write solid code. But I'd been doing a lot of drugs and my mental health was way off base and I started talking to my boss about how I was the best programmer in the company and how he wasn't paying me enough and some other silly shit. Eventually I managed to convince him to convert me to a contractor, so I was working at the same job, without benefits, for a whopping $5K extra a year (if I worked 40/hrs a week for 48 weeks).

He didn't let me go as full-time before making sure that I had access to mental health resources -- his biggest concern was that I get the help I needed, but I assured him that living in Canada (I worked remotely) I had access to mental health care if I needed it. Of course I was certain that I did not need it.

Eventually, things came to a head, and I experienced psychosis to the point where I called the cops and told them someone was spying on me and they certified me and took me away to a psych ward against my wishes.

Things have changed a lot since then and I am much healthier and haven't used any non-prescription drugs (including alcohol) for about a year and a half (I'm lying, I have tried and failed to quit cigarette smoking a few times). The whole me getting taken away incident was about 3 years ago and neither of us work for that company any longer. But I've made amends for the grief I caused him (really, my description above just scratched the surface), and we are on good terms. Today I consider him a friend.

He was the first person who told me to get help. Honestly, that means so much to me.

If anybody wants any more context or someone to talk to about substance abuse problems or mental health issues, I am definitely no professional, but I have personal experience and would be happy to let you know how things went for me and how I got my life back together. My psychiatrist doesn't think it's necessary to see me anymore (I'm a bit torn on that one) and jokes that they should hire me because I've learned and followed their program so well. But a big hint for the main thing behind my success (first suggested to me by my psychiatrist, in fact): To paraphrase Craig Ferguson, "You can find us at the beginning of the phonebook." (I know a lot of people can't get over the "god"/"higher power" thing. Neither can I. But I still followed the instructions and they worked for me. I think it's akin to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Mindfulness Meditation.)

inuhj• 12 years ago

I watched with horror as my highly successful family member that went on a similar online rampage on facebook. It was, unfortunately, career destroying. Very few perceive mental illness--most suspect some combination of drug abuse and an inflated sense of self-worth.

funkyy2• 12 years ago

I like how PayPal manager, manager of a company that blocks funds of thousands legitimate businesses for no apparent reason for months just to earn some money thanks to interest rates on those funds speaks about what's fair and what's unethical - shame on you. Get your stuff together before pointing fingers.

yuhong3• 12 years ago

Does PayPal really do that nowadays?

funkyy2• 12 years ago

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

Some stories are more recent...

parasonic• 12 years ago

so they turn it into a pathetic marketing coup now - honestly, who cares!? well, I don't.

ryan-allen2• 12 years ago

I think Rakesh is having a manic episode with possible psychotic delusions. He needs help immediately.

Moving On

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