How To Fly Without ID

http://www.lookingglassnews.org/printerfriendly.php?storyid=7040

by jmonegro • 17 years ago

100 60 17 years ago

jrockway7• 17 years ago

Something I want to try; get on the "no fly" list, legally change my name to something completely different (in a very small town, of course), legally get updated ID, and see how long it takes before I am on the "no fly" again.

(My guess is never.)

Incidentally, my credit report thinks my name is "Johnathan Rockway", which is a name I've never used on any credit card, nor one that appears on any ID I have ever possessed. Accurate!

devin2• 17 years ago

Heh -- Well, it seems to have gotten your first initial and last name right at the very least. Maybe you go by John? Jonathon?

Either way, I enjoyed your idea and your tone. "Accurate!" he says...

jmonegro• 17 years ago

Funny how you can somehow tell the tone the author is using just by reading his words.

mdasen2• 17 years ago

On the last part, I'd caution you to look into that. I had a name that wasn't mine on my credit report and soon other things started appearing on my report that weren't my accounts. A lot of companies that report to the credit agencies just report the last four of your SSN and name. I started getting calls for someone that wasn't me from collections agencies.

jrockway7• 17 years ago

Well, it is just one letter added to my real name. So probably someone fucking up data entry, not someone misusing my identity.

jhancock• 17 years ago

I'd be interested to know what happens to your credit report if you change your SSN. There are a few loopholes that allow some people to petition for a new SSN. Any idea if you become a new man?

yread• 17 years ago

Very interesting article. I wonder how does it work in the EU. Have to get some legal friend to have a look at it! Perhaps I could have exchanged air tickets with people couple of times already...

salvadors5• 17 years ago

Flying within a country is different from crossing international borders. Even within Schengen many (most?) countries still require visitors to be holding a valid travel document (passport or ID card). Random spot-checks are often carried out close to borders (although by local police, rather than immigration or border guards).

I'd certainly be interested in discovering whether airlines are required to confirm that passengers have these.

Many airlines now also require 'official' ID for flights even within a country, but AIUI that's purely airline policy rather than a legal requirement.

jvdh3• 17 years ago

I've actually been checked in Holland by customs when coming home from a Schengen country.

He asked me to show an ID, I asked "why?", and he just responded "Because I say so". I was a bit too flabbergasted and not prepared for that answer and just showed him. He then proceeded to someone else who was even requested to come to the counter and let his bags get checked.

I'm curious whether I was actually required to do so.

henriklied• 17 years ago

In 2010, you'll be able to fly without your passport in the Schengen-area.

toretore• 17 years ago

There is nothing "international", technically, about flying within the Schengen zone. Airlines don't require you to produce an ID because you're flying "internationally"; you need an ID to board a plane anywhere in the EU/EEA, also for "domestic" flights.

mdasen2• 17 years ago

Well, several EU countries have de facto requirements for you to carry ID at all times. The US allows one to go without identification for pretty much all purposes. Heck, most countries allow much more leeway for stop and search than the US does (being shackled by the fourth amendment here).

In France, while the law now states that one can prove their identity by any means, it is up to the officer asking you whether they accept your proof. So, if the officer doesn't accept 100 non-government documents and you don't have your ID with you, you're in trouble. Not carrying ID at all times can lead to arrest.

In Germany, every person must posses a national ID card, but there is some leeway about presenting it to a requesting official (it doesn't have to happen on the spot). Nevertheless, most carry one all the time.

In Greece, ID cards are compulsory and you can be detained for not presenting one upon request.

In Italy, you're only required to carry your ID card when outside your local authority, but unless you know all the police in your local authority, you're simply required to carry it always. Failure to present ID can result in detention until you can be identified.

Portugal requires you to present your ID card upon request, but doesn't mandate that you carry it at all times.

China requires every citizen to carry an ID card which will soon have biometric data about the person including reproductive history.

In Spain, you are required to present ID, but failure to do so won't end in arrest unless there's another reason to arrest you and you can request that the officer come to where you store the ID.

salvadors5• 17 years ago

Do you have sources for these? I'm not disagreeing with any of them: I'm just wondering if there's a handy country-by-country guide somewhere, or whether these are just ones you happen to know, or the first ones you looked up, or ...

devin2• 17 years ago

Did anyone else notice this is from 2006? Anyone know if this is still possible? Was it ever possible?

The reason I ask is: http://www.lookingglassnews.org/ does not look like the pinnacle of journalistic integrity. The author of this story certainly sounds intelligent, but all of the conspiracy theory crap on this site makes me wonder.

jgfoot• 17 years ago

It is true that if you simply don't have proper ID -- your wallet was stolen, for example -- it's still possible to fly; I think this involves going through the "heightened" pat-down screening. But you are correct that rant-ish reports posted on sketchy web sites that make broad assertions of constitutional law are generally good sources of entertainment, but not legal advice.

John Perry Barlow (of EFF fame) litigated this issue in late 2006. He lost at every step. What came out of that is that the TSA does indeed have a written regulation requiring you show government ID, but that regulation is secret. Info on his litigation is at http://papersplease.org/gilmore/

YuriNiyazov• 17 years ago

I believe you mean john gilmore rather than jpb.

jrockway7• 17 years ago

But you are correct that rant-ish reports posted on sketchy web sites that make broad assertions of constitutional law are generally good sources of entertainment, but not legal advice.

Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court. Like anything, the Supreme Court is mostly about politics these days, rather than protecting anyone's rights. (Sometimes both interests are aligned, of course, but many times they are not; especially with respect to ID.)

dschoon• 17 years ago

I wondered the same thing, so I did a little extra footwork.

Berkeley Professor David Wagner conducted basically the same research as this dude: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/

He came to similar findings regarding selectees: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/noid.html

Neither of those pages are dated, though, so it's still possible things have changed in the past three years. Even so, it's worth noting that both these sites are reporting post-9/11 information.

I'm curious and a bit adventurous, so perhaps I'll give it a shot. I bought the jetBlue pass, so I'll have plenty of opportunities. http://jetblue.com/deals/all-you-can-jet/?intcmp=HPHero1Eng_...

chrisbolt• 17 years ago

According to the HTTP headers, noid.html was last modified on Fri, 20 Oct 2000 05:54:16 GMT

rdouble• 17 years ago

I lost all of my identification one day before a series of domestic flights in the United States in Nov 2008. I was flying SFO <-> MSP and SFO <-> TUS.

If you are flying domestic between MSP and SFO during the holidays I highly recommend not bringing your ID. TSA simply put some marks on my boarding passes and make me go through special screening. It was better than the usual customer experience during the holiday flight season because the "terrorist aisle" was much shorter than the normal path through security. I wouldn't recommend it in PHX or TUS. The TSA agents there seemed to be people who really wanted to be Minutemen Militia border guards but weren't smart enough to get in.

bounce• 17 years ago

I did something similar recently on a 5 city trip from SFO and I would not recommend it. Depending on the airport you could be in for some MAJOR hassle. I had an expired ID and I brought in mail from my current address along with credit cards. A couple of the airports it took a 15min longer than the regular line (they call over supervisor now), and a few of the airports DHS called up to 5 friends with a long list of questions to verify who I was. Who wants DHS calling their friends and associates, I sure don't.

I flew with 0 ID a couple years ago and it was like having a zip pass to get through the line. Times have changed.

dmor• 17 years ago

I traveled domestically without I.D. just two weeks ago. They asked me to show anything I had with my name on it, such as credit cards, mail, etc. and put me through the more rigorous security check. It wasn't bad at all.

weisthefunk2• 17 years ago

"...makes me wonder." makes you wonder if the author sounds intelligent, and official explanations which require new physics to be plausible sound stupid, then maybe, just maybe the emporer really does have no clothes?

edw519• 17 years ago

I fly often and can't imagine going through any of this just to prove a point. I always print my boarding pass at home, never check bags, go directly to security, and use my frequent flyer card to go through the express line. I show my driver's license for inspection, but no data from it is ever recorded. IMO, a small price to pay to move quickly through the airport.

kingandcountry• 17 years ago

I can't imagine going through this whole revolution just to start my own country. All I have to do is give a toast to King George and pay a tax on tea, a small price to pay to stay part of Britain.

ramchip• 17 years ago

Canada did get out of it without a revolution. I get your point, though.

jvdh3• 17 years ago

The last of the regulations seems to imply that it is possible to fly internationally without an ID. I have no idea what you would accomplish by boarding an internation airplane without an ID, because you will get sent back once you get there. There is no way the other country will accept you without a passport.

ryanwaggoner2• 17 years ago

I'm sure there is some procedure for handling citizens who have lost their passports.

arjunnarayan• 17 years ago

Yes, but it involves contacting your nearest consulate/embassy before boarding the plane. They normally verify some stuff internally (which is why it helps immensely to have photocopies that speed up the process as that contains the relevant numbers/barcodes that allow them to look you up quickly) and then they give you an "emergency travel document" or a new passport, depending on the situation. The ETD lets you travel back to your home country and then handle things from there.

ryanwaggoner2• 17 years ago

According to this article from Wired last year, TSA changed the rules so that now you can only fly without an ID if you claim that you lost it. So essentially they're giving up any increased security advantage (real or imagined) that comes from a mandatory ID requirement, for the purpose of sending the message that challenging authority will not be allowed.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/06/tsa-nixes-flyin/

mildavw• 17 years ago

Hmm. The article is not coming up for me at the moment. But that won't stop me from commenting!

I accidentally traveled without ID last year. My drivers license is the only picture ID I carry. I'd given it over to test drive a baby seat at a store, and forgot to get it back. Left for vacation the next day.

My stops were Portland, San Jose, and Austin. At all three airports I explained my situation, showed them my YMCA card (or library or credit card or something) and they marked my boarding pass for special security. The processes were not draconian, just a pat down, and actually faster than the regular security line. I skipped the line and went to some designated place on the side, zipped through the pat down, and then had to wait for my properly ID'd wife every time.

YMMV, but based on my experience, I highly recommend traveling without an ID!

zackattack2• 17 years ago

Speaking of highly recommending traveling without an ID, on my way back from school last year, I got really stoned in my friend's car on the way to the airport. Me being stoned, I left my wallet in the car, and ended up at the airport with no ID.

I also got to go through the much-faster special screening, but I had to step into a chamber where they puffed you with air. Not for weed scent, for bombs, though I was mildly concerned at the time.

All in all a fun experience. Next time there's a big line at security, I'm going to tell them that I forgot my id. w00t

torpor2• 17 years ago

Weed often sets off the bomb sensors, since the high concentration of fertilizers produce similar signatures ..

californiaguy• 17 years ago

If you're in the US just tell them your wallet was stolen.

They'll put you in another line and often times it'll actually be faster than the main security line.

I've done this multiple times, the first time after I actually did lose my wallet in Vegas and had to fly back home. Apparently it happens all the time.

zepolen• 17 years ago

"...could not bar an American citizen from boarding a plane, even if a passenger refused to produce any identification at all!"

How exactly can you know if someone is an American citizen if they don't show any government approved ID saying so?

bjoernw• 17 years ago

I'm a German citizen but travel with my Maryland-issued driver's license. There is no info about citizenship on it. Therefore I would say that even non-citizens can claim this right. How would you prove you are a citizen? Your U.S. passport would be the only way.

jrockway7• 17 years ago

People like to use the word "citizen" for some reason, even when it is not accurate. The protections of the US Constitution apply to all "people", not all "citizens". The word "citizen" mostly occurs when referring to voting and running for office (both which do require citizenship).

Everyone gets a jury trial, free speech, etc.

ionfish• 17 years ago

People like to use the word "citizen" because it's a way of broadcasting their tribal identity. These little war dances are generally done by people with citizenship of high-status nations; one doesn't tend to see people going around bragging about how they are Togolese citizens, for example. However, it's certainly not a behaviour limited to Americans: I've seen plenty of Brits and Canadians do it too.

GrandMasterBirt• 17 years ago

Exactly. That is why they can't really bar anyone. Thus the lawsuits.

Its like in Argentina, they have some toll roads but in their constitution they claim that roads may not be charged for. So people pass through the tolls claiming "I am declaring that I am refusing to pay the toll in accordance to our constitution." And vuala, no toll :)

We must use our legal rights to fight back from the government grabbing power.

robk• 17 years ago

The rules in the US seem to have changed this summer to require ID in almost every case. See Flyertalk's security forum here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/984568...

Very disappointing and arguably unconstitutional.

weisthefunk2• 17 years ago

Thank you for returning my faith in civil rights and the US Constitution. The home of the free and the land of the brave is at grave risk of becoming extinct as long as good men and women sit and watch their basic freedoms eroded continuously in the name of fighting illusionary 'terrorists'

gluejar• 17 years ago

the article is a bit stale. This page is up to date: http://epic.org/privacy/airtravel/

adatta02• 17 years ago

Extremely interesting. Last March I actually tried to switch the name on an American Airlines ticket and the agent on the phone informed that it was impossible to switch the name on a ticket. She went so far as to claim the computer system didn't even support name changes. I called her out on that and then she told me that federal law prohibits name changes on tickets.

Assuming this article is valid - how would an airline even know that the name on the ticket doesn't match if I refuse to produce ID? (it was a domestic flight so no passport)

wkdown• 17 years ago

The downside of this was not pointed out unless one read the whole snippet:

EMPTY THE LUGGAGE OR ITEM AND PHYSICALLY SEARCH ITS CONTENTS BY A QUALIFIED SCREENER

Yeah, you got on the plane without showing ID. But if they really wanted to, they could determine who you are in other ways (DNA from hair on clothing, etc)

How To Fly Without ID

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