OS X Beta Seed Program

https://appleseed.apple.com/sp/betaprogram

by uptown • 12 years ago

153 76 12 years ago

appleseed.apple.com

plorkyeran• 12 years ago

Not enough developers using the betas and providing feedback I guess? Running iOS betas has always seemed far more popular.

Igglyboo• 12 years ago

It's probably because iOS betas attract a lot of non-devs. OS X market share is pretty low compared to iOS.

berberous4• 12 years ago

I don't think it has anything to do with market share, the iOS betas attract more users because they offer more attractive new features. For better or worse, iOS 7 was a huge redesign and many people wanted their phone to look "cool" early.

Trying to explain to non-techies why Mavericks is better is much harder, aside from better battery life.

14113• 12 years ago

I suspect it's because iOS devices feel far more disposable than ones main work computer. By that I don't mean in a product design sense, but in a data loss sense. People are used to the idea that their phone might lose their contacts, or some other important data, and therefore keep them well backed up (iTunes even has a utility to do this). With peoples main computer though, the possibility of something going wrong seems far more dangerous, even if the probability is similar. People often back up their main machine far less often, and care more about the data on it.

0x04• 12 years ago

I might be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that Apple would reject submissions to the app stores that were built on beta systems.

If I'm right, that would explain a lack of uptake on the betas for developers, since that would be a bit of a dealbreaker unless you are juggling multiple macs daily.

arkx• 12 years ago

Apple has allowed running two additional copies of OS X inside virtual machines since 10.7, so juggling multiple Macs is no longer necessary.

smackfu2• 12 years ago

Note that it's kind of pointless to sign up for this if you aren't currently on your Mac, since part of the process is downloading a Beta Access Utility.

catfoods• 12 years ago

This doesn't sound appealing unless it gives access to the next major point release. I'm sure only a marginal number of people are interested in testing 10.9.x compared to 10.10

smackfu2• 12 years ago

If you're running into a major bug on the current release, it's nice to try out the next point release to see if it's fixed.

cmelbye2• 12 years ago

Who says this won't give you access to major releases? To me, that's why this is so interesting with WWDC in a month and a half. Could they be preparing to release changes to OS X that are large enough to warrant the opening of beta testing to the public?

berberous4• 12 years ago

I agree, but point releases can occasionally have new features. 10.9.3 apparently enables 60 Hz 4k output on late 2013 macbook pros. 10.9.2 is limited to 30 Hz which apparently feels very laggy.

filmgirlcw6• 12 years ago

Plus 10.9.3 does scaling on 4K displays so stuff doesn't look super tiny.

shurcooL• 12 years ago

Do you have a source on that? Are any other models getting 4K 60 Hz output besides late 2013 rMBP?

Oculus• 12 years ago

Any insight on how stable the pre-releases are? I'm tempted to sign-up because updates seem very infrequent on OSX, but I'd hate to have to fight more bugs when working.

skadamat• 12 years ago

Depends on the update but the early betas have noticeable problems and crashes, in my roommates experience. Plus, wiping the hard drive and doing a clean install of the final new OS can be a pain

dignati• 12 years ago

I just updated and noticed no changes. Seems to be very stable so far.

potatolicious• 12 years ago

Later betas are usually pretty solid. Early betas are usually absurd messes - iOS7 beta 1 was, IMO, nearly unusable.

I wouldn't let any early Apple beta anywhere near a critical production device.

shadesandcolour2• 12 years ago

My hope is that these will be a bit more stable than a typical apple beta since it's public. Many of the early betas for iOS feel like alpha quality because they're being shipped out to developers who aren't supposed to use them on a primary device (even though we do). They remind you to make a backup, but are probably (hopefully) operating under the assumption that people are going to be installing them on their main machines.

Zelphyr• 12 years ago

Anybody know how to uninstall if at some point I decide I don't want to participate?

cmelbye2• 12 years ago

It's in the Frequently Asked Questions.

salzig• 12 years ago

may the FAQ be with you.

»How do I leave the OS X Beta Seed Program? To leave the program, visit the Leave Program page and follow the instructions to remove your Apple ID and your computers from the OS X Beta Seed Program. This will stop pre-release updates from appearing in the Mac App Store on your computers.« – https://appleseed.apple.com/sp/betaprogram/faq

ceejayoz2• 12 years ago

That's not an uninstall.

philo23• 12 years ago

Got a feeling the "backup your mac with Time Machine" step is a good sign of how you'll have to uninstall it.

shadesandcolour2• 12 years ago

Do an erase and install using OSX Recovery. The built in partition should download a released version of the OS and not a beta version.

filmgirlcw6• 12 years ago

Mark my words, this is the first step. I predict we'll see iOS beta installs as an option in iOS 8. Looks like buying TestFlight paid off.

jevinskie2• 12 years ago

Does anyone know how this differs from the seeds already available through developer.apple.com?

nav1• 12 years ago

You need to be a paying OS X dev member to access the seeds on developer.apple.com.

kbar13• 12 years ago

I think what OP meant was if there was a difference in the content of the beta programs.

0x04• 12 years ago

This has been around since at least 2011, is there anything new now? Did they remove the request invitation roadblock now?

Also, does anyone know how security updates are handled? Would suck to be stuck on an unpatched beta while gotofail/heartbleed/Security Update 2014-002 type bugs are in the wild.

josso• 12 years ago

The new part is that it doesn't require a membership to the Mac Dev Program, but is open to everyone with a free Apple Account.

0x04• 12 years ago

I thought appleseed never required a dev program account - but that membership was granted semi-randomly based on applying for an invite?

conradev• 12 years ago

I have a VM that runs the latest OS X seed for testing, and the latest update included a "Feedback Assistant" application that allows non-developers to provide feedback.

It makes a lot more sense now!

cbsmith• 12 years ago

Perfect timing. I paid $99 to get access tot his program just a month ago...

itafroma2• 12 years ago

Also, does anyone know how security updates are handled? Would suck to be stuck on an unpatched beta while gotofail/heartbleed/Security Update 2014-002 type bugs are in the wild.

This is a new program, so there may be a change in how quickly seeds are distributed, but in the Mac Developer Program, typically the appropriate security update showed up in the next pre-release seed: it could either be the same day if the stars align, or sometimes up to two weeks.

Lately, they've been pushing out pre-release seeds every couple of days, though. Nevertheless, running pre-release software is definitely "at your own risk."

lancewiggs• 12 years ago

I joined. The OS X Update Seed offered for download is 10.9.3 (13D45a).

RyJones2• 12 years ago

That's the same seed offered on the paid side.

sjtgraham• 12 years ago

Hopefully these beta builds will be ineligible to write AppStore reviews or leave ratings, especially if this is ever extended to iOS. It was quite sad (and no doubt frustrating for developers) to see apps rated 1 star because "GARBAGE! DOESN'T WORK IN IOS7!!!!1" before iOS was even GM.

chc• 12 years ago

Yeah, this makes me so happy that I am not in the App Store right now. But for the same reason, I have to assume that this will only be relatively late-stage betas — encouraging ordinary schmoes to install known-unstable versions of your OS is a recipe for bad PR no matter how many caveats you throw at them.

filmgirlcw6• 12 years ago

that's what I'm assuming but Apple PR hasn't responded with clarification. Pre-release doesn't have the same stigma as some of the builds, so that's encouraging.

I'd assume it's not just for bug testing but also user-feedback on specific features/functions/usability issues. For instance, the 4K scaling in 10.9.3.

tbrock• 12 years ago

I'd rather have that problem than one that requires you go backwards:

"I can't believe x app doesn't run on <ancient android version>"

jeffgreco• 12 years ago

Seeing increasingly large #'s of comments like that in the App Store from 4 and 4S owners.

akerl_• 12 years ago

I'm curious how serious they intend to be about the NDA-ish section:

"don’t blog, post screen shots, tweet or publicly post information about the pre-release Apple software, and don't discuss the pre-release Apple software with or demonstrate it to others who are not in the OS X Beta Seed Program."

itafroma2• 12 years ago

I'm curious how serious they intend to be about the NDA-ish section

These terms are standard for all the Apple developer programs. In practice, they have been largely unenforced due to the definition they use for Confidential Information:

Information that otherwise would be deemed Confidential Information but (a) is generally and legitimately available to the public through no fault or breach of yours, (b) is generally made available to the public by Apple, (c) is independently developed by you without the use of any Confidential Information, (d) was rightfully obtained from a third party who had the right to transfer or disclose it to you without limitation, or (e) any third party software and/or documentation provided to you by Apple and accompanied by licensing terms that do not impose confidentiality obligations on the use or disclosure of such software and/or documentation will not be considered Confidential Information under this Agreement.

Clause (a) generally protects anything interesting to talk about, because all the rumor mill sites have full run-downs within a few hours of release. Very rare and circumstantial cases aside[1], publishing the contents of pre-release software on such sites has been considered well within legitimate public interest.

[1]: The most recent case I can think of where Apple was able to go after a rumor mill site for divulging trade secrets (and, more importantly, have it stick) was the when they got Think Secret to shut down in a settlement related to its leaking of the original Mac mini.

yuhong• 12 years ago

Yea, I wish that Tim Cook would review the secrecy at Apple and look at what part of it is really needed.

karangoeluw• 12 years ago

Pretty sure it will be hidden in the EULA or TOS.

runlevel1• 12 years ago

Interestingly, all it takes to enroll is a shell command:

    sudo softwareupdate --set-catalog "https://swscan.apple.com/content/catalogs/others/index-10.9publicseed-10.9-mountainlion-lion-snowleopard-leopard.merged-1.sucatalog.gz"

I previously stumbled upon this URL via a Google Search. (Remember to use your `robots.txt` folks!)

Aside: Seeing as how this circumvents the normal sign-up process, enrolling this way probably does not comply with the program or software license agreement.

stevanl• 12 years ago

Undo command, for those wondering:

sudo /usr/sbin/softwareupdate --clear-catalog

SomeoneWeird• 12 years ago

Does this you let downgrade too? (I'd presume not)

martinesko36• 12 years ago

Interesting. I hope this is one step closer to Apple opening up a "Beta" App Store, where every developer can submit betas without waiting for app review.

l_perrin• 12 years ago

question is: does it fix the infamous kernel_task problem?

astrange• 12 years ago

High CPU in kernel_task means one of your CPU cores is being force-idled because the computer is too hot or the wrong charger is being used. It's not a bug.

(There could be bugs causing excessive CPU/GPU usage heating up the machine. This is the kind of thing you'd want to report!)

berberous4• 12 years ago

The agreement mentions that (unless you disable it) Apple will collect various technical data about your system. Makes sense. I'm curious, however, why that data includes, if Location Services is enabled, "the real-time geographic location of your computer and location search queries."

I'm not sure if there's a way to just exclude location information from the diagnostic info, without disabling location services for all apps? I'm happy to share information about my system configuration with them, but I'm not sure what's so helpful about my location data.

bruceboughton• 12 years ago

For diagnosing any bugs with Location Services, I'd presume.

It's a beta build after all...

newscracker• 12 years ago

For those who've heard of the AppleSeed program and are wondering how this Beta Seed Program is different:

1. AppleSeed users get a separate private discussion forum and other privileges related to bug submission and tracking.

2. Bug reports from AppleSeed Program members are considered with a higher importance (which means they would most likely get to the appropriate teams with lesser filtering).

3. AppleSeed Program members have now been asked not to sign up for this Beta Seed Program because of the "better benefits" that they already have.

OS X Beta Seed Program

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