Uber hit with preliminary injunction to stop service in Berlin

http://www.zeit.de/mobilitaet/2014-04/personenbefoerderung-berlin-uber

by Xylakant • 12 years ago

45 63 12 years ago

Xylakant8• 12 years ago

Sorry, I couldn't find an english source. Google translate link http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=...

It's interesting to note that "Uber" is translated as "About" (über)

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Thanks for everyone explaining why Uber translates to about - I'm a german native. Not knowing that makes the google translate a little hard to read, so I thought I'd add it for all that don't speak german.

sdfjkl• 12 years ago

"Uber" is really quite a poor brand name for the German market. It either implies ignorance of the u-umlaut (the correct transliteration of über would be ueber, not uber), or worse, some very negative associations with Nazi ideologies (Übermensch and the first line of the Deutschlandlied).

thmcmahon• 12 years ago

What? Umber is just a preposition, it doesn't has nazi overtones. The fact that it's grammatically incorrect is probably a plus, because it's then less likely to be confused.

Ygg2• 12 years ago

It translates to above? Like "X über alles" is "X above else".

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/%C3%BCber%20alles

kitsune_• 12 years ago

Über can be used as a prefix, but also as a preposition. Wikipedia has a good article about Über [1]

"über etwas sprechen" -> "to speak about something"

"über die Brücke" -> "across the bridge"

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cber

pilif• 12 years ago

or, in Uber's case, "above" probably works best:

"weit über das Nötige hinaus" -> "far above what's necessary"

DasIch3• 12 years ago

"Über" has no direct translation to English, it can only be translated in context. It can be translated to about, above, over, across, of, via, beyond and several other words.

NicoJuicy• 12 years ago

Well, the minister of mobility in Belgium also stopped Uber... Neelie Kroes says she is disappointed because of stopping innovation...

calibwam• 12 years ago

It is always better to attack competition than to become better yourself. - AT&T, Comcast, etc.

omnibrain2• 12 years ago

From all I read Taxi business in Berlin is already a highly competitive market with low margin and low salaries for the drivers. I think this market does not need a downward spiral. Granted, my sources (taxi driver blogs) may be biased.

wyager5• 12 years ago

my sources (taxi driver blogs)

So you trust the taxi drivers to tell you if their industry is "competitive enough"? Brb, I have to go ask comcast if the cable industry is competitive enough.

There is no such thing as too much competition. Increased competition always has a net positive effect. Comcast and the taxi industry may suffer, but society will benefit.

merrua• 12 years ago

Pretty fair that they blocked it. Its basically an unregulated taxi service. Also the name is terrible for Germany.

travisp• 12 years ago

It's worth noting that in this context as far as I can tell, Uber's drivers and cars were regulated and licensed. They are allowed to drive limos for hire, but the law requires them to return to their place of business after a job (they aren't allowed to keep cars sitting around to pick up passengers). The google translation of the main complaint by the taxi association is "they keep taxe similar primarily in downtown ready to spontaneously pick up passengers." In other words, they don't wait to receive a call to get a car close and available to their passengers.

So, while it's true that this is probably against the laws of the city, it's hard to see it as anything other than protectionism for taxis: there's no evidence that Uber was causing harm for passengers (or else they'd be talking about this), and there's no reason to believe that making a limo service return its cars to its place of business after each job is inherently better for consumers.

Xylakant8• 12 years ago

In this context it's important to note that it's not a city law. Übers drivers violate the Personenbeförderungsgesetz which is a federal law. The injunction might have happened in all german cities, but this specific case seems to be about Berlin only.

Most specifically Uber violates §49 ("Verkehr mit Mietomnibussen und mit Mietwagen"), Satz (4) which makes a very clear and distinct case that rental limousines must avoid confusion with Taxis. " Annahme, Vermittlung und Ausführung von Beförderungsaufträgen, das Bereithalten des Mietwagens sowie Werbung für Mietwagenverkehr dürfen weder allein noch in ihrer Verbindung geeignet sein, zur Verwechslung mit dem Taxenverkehr zu führen."

The regulations concerning limos for hire are far lower than the regulations concerning cabs, most notably limos for hire are exempt from §21 (Betriebspflicht) and §22 (Beförderungspflicht). Basically cabs have to accept any customer and the law demands that they keep on providing (and even expanding) their service as deemed necessary by the city. It's like saying "oh, regular cars are regulated as well".

The cabs in germany are regulated as part of the public transport. Uber tries to skirt that regulation and reap the benefits, while undermining the system - and by doing that they create damage to the consumers. Even if you assume there's no damage to the consumer it's not Uber that gets to decide which law applies and which needs disruption. I could think of a couple of laws that I think need disruption in my line of work (tax law, for example) but I don't get to choose either.

http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pbefg/__49.html

smackfu• 12 years ago

It's interesting that Uber managed to get licensed drivers to ignore the rules of their license.

VMG• 12 years ago

Pretty fair that they blocked it.

Assuming taxi service regulation is fair of course. Taxis are insanely expensive in Germany.

aw3c22• 12 years ago

Taxi drivers earn really little... I am not sure what price you would find fair?

raverbashing3• 12 years ago

" Taxis are insanely expensive in Germany."

What?

In Berlin from SXF to the "city center" it will run around 40€, from TXL, around 20€ to 30€ depending, and no tip. (Also both airports are served by public transport)

So, no, they are not insanely expensive compared to other places in Europe (and even elsewhere)

nymph• 12 years ago

Taxis are insanely expensive in Germany.

Like lots of other things in Europe, some things are cheaper, and some thing more expensive than in North American cities.

But to say that taxis are "insanely" expensive is not just overdrawn, but disconnected from reality.

And doesn't in the least detract from the main point: that just because Uber (or its fans on HN) perceive taxi fares as being higher in some locations than in others, doesn't give Uber the right to bust its way through local regulations. Period.

mseidl• 12 years ago

As a German this is news to me...

arrrg• 12 years ago

Yeah, seems like a pretty clear-cut violation of the law. You can’t do that. If you think the law sucks then you have to lobby for change, not just violate the law.

Also, it’s not like Uber (absolutely terrible name in Germany) offers any advantages over, say, mytaxi (ordering the car with an app, paying with an app), besides maybe price. (And since mytaxi works within the confines of the existing taxi system they can’t really change anything about the price.)

wyager5• 12 years ago

God forbid we have transportation services not beholden to arbitrary regulations built in favor of the existing taxi industry.

People use Über because it's better than any regulated taxi service. That is direct, incontrovertible proof that the existing taxi regulations are hurting innovation.

EliRivers2• 12 years ago

Arbitrary? While I can't speak for every taxi law in every country, I quite like knowing that the taxi I ride in has to maintain a standard of vehicle and that the driver isn't some chancer on day-release.

EpicEng3• 12 years ago

Regardless of whether or not you are correct in your assertion that these regulations are arbitrary and exist only to benefit existing taxi companies (which, of course, disagrees with your former claim...), you don't get to break the law because you disagree with it.

Genmutant• 12 years ago

It's strange that this took so long, and only in Berlin. If you want to drive a Taxi in Germany, you need a special driver's license. If you want to open a taxi company you need to prove that you are reliable and secure. Additionally you can't refuse a passenger (if there is nothing wrong with them) and can only charge the tarif the city says (+ additional charges like if it sunday or at night).

Xylakant8• 12 years ago

It's strange that this took so long, and only in Berlin.

I'm not surprised that it's only in Berlin: Berlin and Munich are the only german cities Uber operates in. In addition to that you need standing to sue, so neither you nor me as a customer can sue. The injunction here is the result of a case started by a taxi company owner in Berlin, so it applies to Berlin only. I would assume that the Munich cab companies were waiting for this case to go through and might follow suit.

It's important to note that this is _only_ a preliminary decision, the final court decision may be different. It's more of an indicator in which direction the court leans, but preliminary injunctions may be granted for reasons such as that continuing the service might create irreversible facts. (nb: I haven't read the injunction)

simfoo• 12 years ago

Exactly. And as the article shows in the end, it seems Uber did raise their fares according to high demand in at least one occasion in New York.

Xylakant8• 12 years ago

That's a feature (Surge Pricing). The official reason is to get more cars on the road, but I bet they're not unhappy about pocketing more consumer money either.

stef25• 12 years ago

Not just Berlin, the same happened in Brussels a couple days ago. We have a dinosaur of a "transport minister" who decided to ban. Two taxi companies monopolize the market.

Neelie Kroes then spoke out against this ban: https://ec.europa.eu/commission_2010-2014/kroes/en/content/c...

Xylakant8• 12 years ago

Well, as far as I read the belgian case is about UberPop, the Berlin case about UberBlack, so that's different.

peterjancelis• 12 years ago

In Brussels Uber (more specifically UberPOP) got banned as well.

zenbowman2• 12 years ago

Good. Lawbreakers should be prosecuted. If the law is unjust, then change the law for all - don't allow some people to get away with it just because they are "tech companies" and continue to oppress the rest with the laws.

marcblackbeard• 12 years ago

Yeah, Uber is oppressing the german people by offering a better and cheaper service to them, they need to go away.

zenbowman2• 12 years ago

That's not the point. The point is that if a non-internet taxi company did the same thing, they'd be in legal trouble.

Even the playing field by lifting restrictions, or apply them evenly.

Uber hit with preliminary injunction to stop service in Berlin

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