Tin cans filled with $10M in gold coins found buried in California

http://www.news.com.au/world/tin-cans-filled-with-10-million-in-gold-coins-dating-from-gold-rush-era-found-buried-in-california/story-fndir2ev-1226837801851

by Varcht • 12 years ago

171 99 12 years ago

news.com.au

rjtavares• 12 years ago

HN in 50 years: wallet with $10 million in BitCoin from the mining era found.

sebastianavina• 12 years ago

maybe in 50 years, new cpus or math advancements could brute force wallets and make bitcoins worthless...

timmclean• 12 years ago

maybe in 50 years, new chemistry advancements could turn water to gold and make gold worthless...

J0415• 12 years ago

http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/29/5156246/7-5-million-bitco...

chc• 12 years ago

I doubt anyone from this era has a wallet with 100000000000 BTC.

willary• 12 years ago

Actually worth 50$ but is sold for $10 million because it belonged to known outlaw and cyber criminal Mark Karpeles

chippy• 12 years ago

would the electronics / magnetic storage thingys survive that far into the future if it was outside?

ck2• 12 years ago

Doesn't the US Treasury have a history of going around and seizing gold coins?

I forget exactly why but I think it was because they were all recalled when we went off gold standard?

I vaguely remember people finding these in deposit boxes, sharing it with the news and then magically losing it all when the treasury shows up to seize them.

Ah here we go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

not really related but still gold-coin mind-blowing fact

http://www.npr.org/2011/06/28/137394348/-1-billion-that-nobo...

nlh• 12 years ago

Just 1933 Double Eagles ($20). It's actually a fascinating story ... I'll dig up the link and post an edit shortly.

Edit: the essential story - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_double_eagle

Edit 2: Quick aside: I know the guy who found the 10 additional coins in his vault (Roy Langbord). Super nice guy. I remember when a mutual friend called me up one day and said "So Roy just found 10 1933 $20 gold coins in his vault. Are those worth anything?" ... Gulp ...

sliverstorm• 12 years ago

Sssh, we're trying to drum up distrust in the government and drive up the price of our gold holdings here! Get with the program! :)

MichaelGG2• 12 years ago

Wow that's so messed up. The Gold Reserve Act, too. It seems extremely "un-American" for the government to force people to sell their gold to the treasury. OTOH, so do a lot of things in hindsight, like the Vietnam draft. (Can you imagine US citizens today being forced to fight overseas?)

Was this a common viewpoint when the act went in, or it decades of history since colouring my vision?

baddox• 12 years ago

Sounds like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102.

ubernostrum2• 12 years ago

It's only the 1933 Double Eagles that get seized, and only because the government's position is those coins were never legally issued, meaning private possession of one could only have come about via theft from the Mint, which makes the coins stolen government property.

nickff• 12 years ago

I think the previous poster was referring to executive order 6102 (April 5, 1933), which seized gold within the United States, and criminalized the possession of the specie.[1]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

gretful• 12 years ago

I wonder why no Statute of Limitations apply to this?

650REDHAIR2• 12 years ago

Why would you ever go public with this sort of discovery? Seems like it will just create one hell of a headache for the couple who discovered the coins.

pickleport• 12 years ago

According to the article they chose to remain anonymous.

patrickg_zill2• 12 years ago

They are being pretty cagey about who they are and where they were found. My guess, is that they went "partially" public in order to generate interest in selling these coins at auction, or via some other way to increase how much they can sell them for.

650REDHAIR2• 12 years ago

Ok, that makes more sense. Still seems like an awful lot of information to put out there.

ereckers• 12 years ago

I wouldn't go public either. Somebody before them owned that property and I wonder if old relatives could give you troubles.

theandrewbailey5• 12 years ago

If it was found on your land, and the deed to that land has been in your name for several years, they wouldn't have legit claim.

giarc2• 12 years ago

I own my house but the government keeps mineral and mining rights. Gold's a mineral right?

pavel_lishin2• 12 years ago

They could still try to make a claim, and you'd presumably still have to hire a lawyer and go to court, which would be no fun at all.

simlevesque• 12 years ago

What about Israel.

booruguru• 12 years ago

I read story a while back about a plumber who found a box filled with thousands of dollars...behind a wall after he knocked a hole in it. The owner of the house offered him 10% as a finder's fee, but he demanded more and ultimately sued her. The story of the law suit led to the children of the previous home owners filing their own law suit claiming they were entitled to the money...and they won everything. The woman and the plumber received nothing.

stan_rogers• 12 years ago

Depends where. This is treasure trove, (the discovery, or trover of treasure cache, deliberately hidden goods that can be classified as treasure, especially gold/silver) and the laws around that are a bit of a mess in a lot of places (particularly in the US, where most states opted to receive common law and there are several contradictory precedents).

iandanforth2• 12 years ago

My favorite part about this is why it's worth $10 million.

Because it's currency? Nope. Because it's gold? Nope. Because it's collectable? Yes!

Really highlights how price and value can come unstuck.

hackinthebochs• 12 years ago

I remember seeing a documentary that made the connection between the evolution of money and the human race's tendency to find inherent value in "collectibles". Stones, shells, jewelry, etc, were all the basis for a currency in various times, and its only because of our shared appreciation for collectibles that this worked.

sjg007• 12 years ago

One should read: The Island of Stone Money.

brc2• 12 years ago

Well, currency is defined by divisibility, durability, scarcity and difficulty of forging. Humans desire a medium of exchange to better facilitate trade. The desire to trade creates the requirement for currency. The desire to collect manifests in many different forms - but the use of currency is separate (though probably related) to that.

wintersFright5• 12 years ago

Is the mono lisa only worth $2.50 for the price of canvas, paint and wood frame? Old paint at that!

The price of a collectable is because someone else (not necessarily you) values it. And the odds are that many other wealthy collectors would value it at the same price, allowing the buyer to hold it and then trade it later for similar value.

iandanforth2• 12 years ago

Indeed, but here it's something that has two well understood prices. One, currency, which doesn't change over time, and two, gold, which fluctuates but generally increases over time. And despite being composed of these other things it has a third almost-totally-unconnected price related to artificial scarcity! I think that is super neat. It may also signal that humans are totally insane, but no matter.

robbrown4512• 12 years ago

I'm curious what the melt value would be. I didn't see that in the article. I assume when they say $27,000 they mean the currency value, but if you were to melt it and sell it at the current price for the metal (~$1300/ounce), it would probably be a lot more than that....while less than the $10 million it is supposedly worth as collectibles.

absherwin• 12 years ago

Approximately $1.76 million

Starting in 1837, gold coins in the US had 0.48375oz of gold per $10. So $27,000 in coins would be worth $1,755,432 given a price for gold of $1344 per oz. This excludes the value of the copper with which the gold was alloyed, which would be worth roughly another $30.

daniel-cussen• 12 years ago

There's a legal factor you're not considering. USG has confiscated bullion gold in the past, but not coin collections. Therefore, for goldbugs, these coins are worth more than their bullion content of $1.75 million, and obviously much more than the $27,000 face value price.

patrickg_zill2• 12 years ago

$27,000 face value in $10 and $20 gold coins, each gold coin having 0.9675 ounces of gold in them ($10 coins would have had exactly half that amount of gold).

So that is about 1350 $20 gold coins or their equivalent, thus 1300 ounces of gold. At current spot prices of $1340 per ounce, about $1.75 million USD.

IF they are the $20 coins, they probably look similar to these: http://www.apmex.com/product/9119/20-liberty-gold-double-eag...

snake_plissken• 12 years ago

This story made me smile. Legitimate buried treasure!

Natsu• 12 years ago

For anyone else who thought to check, no the photos do not appear to contain any GPS coordinates in the EXIF data, so they have the treasure hunting grounds all to themselves.

gojomo• 12 years ago

YC (S14): Gold Country Metal-Detecting Drones

doubt_me• 12 years ago

Dude. a segway metal detector

... I mean why not

chris_mahan2• 12 years ago

In a cemetery? In a grave marked unknown? Is there Ennio Morricone music playing in the background? Is there a closeup of Blondie's cigar?

groovylick• 12 years ago

The Ecstasy of Gold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOr0na6mKJQ one of my favorite movie soundtracks.

chris_mahan2• 12 years ago

Thank you. Linked vid is not available in the US, but quick youtube search yield suitable alternatives.

shiven• 12 years ago

You get an upvote for bringing up Morricone! That man is a genius!!

xacaxulu• 12 years ago

This is probably one of the better way to save your money from the bankrupt state.

scott_karana• 12 years ago

Only if you can anticipate that the value of the metal is still there in 100 years, or that the coins will be worth something as a collector's piece.

Imagine if these were aluminum, which was expensive in the 1870s...

(http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9511/Binczewski-9511.ht...)

brc2• 12 years ago

This is a time-honoured tradition.

The dirt in england is awash with buried hoards, where people buried their currency and valuables to hide them from the government. The list is fascinating.

wpietri• 12 years ago

Which is exactly what some fool thought 100 years ago when they buried and lost these coins.

lexcorvus2• 12 years ago

Because paper money was illegal in California until the 1870s

My, how times have changed.

MichaelGG2• 12 years ago

Is that sarcastic? Because in many states, having "enough" paper money is reason enough for the police to take it and harass you. Even without charging you with a crime, mere possession of cash is enough.

lexcorvus2• 12 years ago

I was referring to "paper money" in the abstract sense, i.e., currency not tied to a commodity with a limited supply (such as gold). You're right, of course, that mere possession of sufficient quantities of literal paper money is even today de facto illegal—a situation I join you in deploring.

robg• 12 years ago

Hoard of uncirculated coins in chronological order found buried under a tree? Isn't that the likely result of a robbery?

jonnathanson2• 12 years ago

At the risk of stating the obvious, it's worth noting that $27,000 was a lot of money in 1849. To give a rough estimate, we're talking about the inflation-adjusted equivalent of $750,000 (give or take).

Who buries $750,000 in tin cans? Who has $750,000 in unbanked, walking-around money in the first place? The mid-19th century Walter White? Maybe someone cleaning out his bank account in anticipation of a financial apocalypse? This is the interesting part of this story, IMO. In any event, this might be one stash among several. If someone had that kind of coin lying around, my guess is that he didn't bury it all in one place.

moonka• 12 years ago

I'm not sure in 1849 there were a lot of banks that one would trust that kind of funds with in gold rush areas in CA. I'd imagine banks were much less robust than they are now, and even now I believe that 750k is > the FDIC insurance limits.

jonnathanson2• 12 years ago

There was no FDIC in 1849, so fair enough point. No deposits were insured. :)

But people generally didn't realize how problematic that was except in financial panics and runs on banks. To wit, there was a big panic in 1873, not long after these coins were ostensibly buried. But that was well after these coins were minted, which makes their near-mint, quasi-uncirculated condition a bit hard to reconcile. I suppose it's possible the burier had them in tin cans (or some other receptacle) for decades, and buried them in the 1870s.

At any rate, banks were around and thriving during the Gold Rush, and San Francisco was in many ways the most progressive financial hub in the US, rivaling NYC. To whatever extent someone had $27,000 in those days, he probably would have banked it. Unless he'd come into it very recently, or under suspicious circumstances, or had just withdrawn it prior to burying it. It's certainly possible this person was a bank robber, though the more likely explanation is an unbanked or bank-panicked individual.

hcarvalhoalves• 12 years ago

I would start looking at the records for some bank robber who got shot and nobody ever found the money.

Stashing your economies inside a house, in a safe, I can understand... but in cans, under a tree? This is the kind of thing someone on a getaway would do. The coins are fresh out of the mint too, so it's likely the entire stash came from one place.

dools• 12 years ago

In the article it says they're stashed in chronological order and almost all immediately that they were put into circulation, ruling out a "big heist".

adventured• 12 years ago

Yes, the fact that nobody ever successfully came back for this is fascinating. They either buried it such that the marker was soon lost and or buried it in a big hurry, never meant for it to be found (in their time) for whatever reason, or died before they could recover it.

prawn• 12 years ago

"Who buries $750,000 in tin cans?"

Not quite the same amount, but my grandfather buried around $10k a few decades ago in his backyard. He'd migrated from Europe where he was well-off and lost a large amount of money entrusting money with a lawyer. I think he also had reason not to trust banks, but can't remember specifics.

Fast forward to Australia where, now decidedly working class, he had saved up a new sum and wanted to store it. So he buried it. Years later, before moving house, he went looking and dug over the backyard but couldn't remember where he'd buried the jars of money. Somewhere in suburban Adelaide, there is likely to be a stash of money under dirt.

dredmorbius• 12 years ago

Reminds me somewhat of this old saw (other variants mention money):

http://www.familyfriendjokes.com/joke/father-son-prison-joke

digitalengineer2• 12 years ago

Hard to believe now, but in 1933 the possession of gold by Americans was banned by Executive Order 6102. After the confiscation the price of gold jumped and people got duped.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

rasz_pl• 12 years ago

meh gold, now if those were dogecoins ....

qbrass• 12 years ago

Bury some now, and it could make the news in 130 years.

chrismcb• 12 years ago

I like how they talk about how RARE mint coins from before 1880 are, and how there are several one of a kind finds, and many from before 1880... And then they show a coin from 1886

Tin cans filled with $10M in gold coins found buried in California

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