The Blub Paradox also applies to editors/IDEs

http://osteele.com/archives/2004/11/ides

by wmf • 19 years ago

19 22 19 years ago

MuddyMo• 19 years ago

Spot on. It would seem Tools are critical to a software factory, Languages to software innovators.

Noting the the reference to Lazlo: http://www.openlaszlo.org/ "OpenLaszlo is "write once, run everywhere." An OpenLaszlo application developed on one machine will run on all leading Web browsers on all leading desktop operating systems." Heard this before?

pg3• 19 years ago

It seems to apply, but in reverse. I never really grasped what IDEs were for till I saw someone at a conference editing Java code in one. Now I get it: they're for generating the macroexpansions that your source code consists of in such languages.

I suspect IDEs are like Bail Bondsmen. It may be a good sign if you don't know what they're for.

aston• 19 years ago

Probably not the worst way to explain it. Now all you have to do is convince yourself that seeing the expanded code is a good thing, and you've just sold yourself completely on Java.

PS: It definitely can be a good thing, depending on your needs.

throwawayacount• 19 years ago

I suspect IDEs are like Bail Bondsmen. It may be a good sign if you don't know what they're for.

Do you have a special satchel full of these apt analogies? I I envy your analogical ability.

wyday• 19 years ago

Peter piper picked a peck of alliteration, eh?

ardit33• 19 years ago

A good IDE, with good autocompletion features increases productivity a lot, plus it makes much easier for begginners to get started.

When you first starting, you don't know much of the API/features of a language, hence IDE features such as "Autocompletion", "Open Declaration", "Find References"... are extremely useful.

One of my frustration with working with Python is that none of the IDEs are that good, and methods/language features are not commented that well.

In the Java world, Eclipse + lots of code commenting = makes it insanely easy to get learn new APIs. Also, IDE's help a lot with debuging, running external tools, some automation...etc.

IDEs usually have higher learning curve (vs. a normal text editor), but make it up with the features that they provide.

pg3• 19 years ago

Autocompletion is only possible in languages that are excessively verbose. In a good language, the next token requires thought to produce.

brlewis• 19 years ago

There you go, dissing IDEs again. A lot of us like emacs!

jimbokun• 19 years ago

I think they are also for fixing other people's bad code.

If you diligently refactor as you go, by replacing repeated code with functions or macros, you don't need a complicated tool to do it.

However, if you have inherited some code where the preferred reuse method is copy paste, this is much more risky. You need to be sure that you got all of the cases and that you don't inadvertently break anything. This is yet another reason to start a startup instead of getting a "real job" :).

Tichy2• 19 years ago

Eclipse does more than just autocompletions. It also helps you navigate your code for example.

Nevertheless, I think programming without completions sucks. I think most non-IDE editors also try to offer completions, though. It's one reason I can't stand Rails: all that passing around of parameters in Hashes is fundamentally not autocompletable.

DaniFong• 19 years ago

In MS Visual studio, for C#, with a plugin called resharper, macros can be astonishingly effective. For programming competitions I developed a fairly extensive set of macros, and they've been pretty good to me. Unfortunately, they can't quite do everything I want them to, and that has me looking at Lisp.

murrayh• 19 years ago

An area where I suspect IDEs could be helpful even in higher-level languages would be for TDD. In my limited experience, I have found TDD to involve a lot of "plumbing" that a computer could easily do for me. It would be nice to write a test that uses an undefined function, press the run key, and then have my cursor blinking next to a generated function definition ready to go.

This of course begs the question of how applicable TDD is to high-level languages (or even in general... I have my reservations). Time for me to stop pondering and get down and dirty :-).

Goladus• 19 years ago

http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/transformation

Skip to the bottom section if you're in a hurry.

The Blub Paradox also applies to editors/IDEs

Related Stories