Sony sells its VAIO PC business, makes TV arm its own subsidiary

http://www.engadget.com/2014/02/06/sony-sells-vaio/

by sosuke • 12 years ago

75 70 12 years ago

engadget.com

sdfjkl2• 12 years ago

What does that leave Sony with? Game consoles, cameras, incompatible flash memory and some audio kit?

obtino• 12 years ago

There's a hell of a lot more to Sony than electronics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony#Business_units

sdfjkl2• 12 years ago

Interesting, had no idea they were in banking.

As for the electronics sector I was referring to, it seems I missed semiconductors, medical and the remnants of Ericsson.

mikeash• 12 years ago

The scope of some of these companies can be pretty big. Samsung, for example, in addition to selling millions of smartphones, is also the world's second-largest shipbuilder (among many other activities). We're used to more focused companies like Apple or Google, but it's not always so.

protomyth• 12 years ago

Heck, their professional gear would be a big business on its own, never mind music, tv, and movies.

pedalpete• 12 years ago

I thought the Tap 11 showed a ton of potential. I hope somebody else can capitalise on that. The rest of the line I found fairly ho-hum.

PhantomGremlin5• 12 years ago

I feel sorry for Sony. They're lost. They're so lost that they don't even know they're lost. And nobody will tell them, or they just won't listen.

E.g. a few years ago they bet big on 3D TV. At the time I said "huh?". It was destined to fail. Not just because many people dislike the 3D effect, there were multiple standards, there was a need for special glasses, etc.

No, the real (missing) elephant in the room was content. After all, how many times can you re-watch Avatar? Have there even been 10 "good" 3D movies made to date?

So what does this article end with? It says that Sony is betting big on 4K screens. Once again, the key word is "content". Just how do you get 4K content to people at home? About 10 years ago we were all sold the HDTV story. But look at what's being delivered to homes today. Extreme bit starving; an HD TV channel often uses less than 1/2 of what was envisioned. Why? Because most people don't care and so it's more profitable to deliver two or three mediocre quality programs instead of one high quality program.

Those uncaring consumers will now start paying for 4K content? I don't think so! And even if they wanted it, there isn't enough available bandwidth on the cable systems. So now we need a successor to Blu-ray with even more resolution? Great, now each movie will be available in DVD, Blu-Ray and 4K Blu-Ray versions? Don't forget the collectors editions. Don't forget the inevitable re-releases (e.g. special editions), because the video quality of the first release was total crap.

And without 4K content, today's TVs are already more than good enough. My TV set is capable of far better quality than what comes out of my cable. And the quality of video on demand is no better than what's OTA. Usually worse.

Apparently nobody at Sony has managed to convey to top management the unexpurgated version of "this is a crock of shit, and it stinks".

maggit• 12 years ago

This is not in any way meant as a refutation to your point, but merely as a "for your interest" piece of information:

From working in the TV industry, I can tell you that real money comes from sports broadcasts, which also means that the sports people are the ones with money to burn. Apparently, ESPN made an attempt at a TV channel dedicated to 3D broadcasts of sports events. It was discontinued in September last year not for lack of content, but because of the reasons that you dismiss :) (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN_3D ) Similarly, I expect early 4k TV content to be sports and news.

So, movies isn't the only kind of content and 3D TV channels have failed because of lack of adoption. This, however, doesn't mean that lack of (even more) content still isn't the cause of lack of adoption.

corin_• 12 years ago

Similar in the UK with Sky, sports seems to be their biggest 3D draw (on Sky Sports 3D I think it's called), but they show other content too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_3D

Not sure how popular it is (I don't know anyone who uses it, the only friends I have who tried it got bored of it quickly), but it hasn't shut yet.

w1ntermute4• 12 years ago

I'm pretty optimistic about Sony's future:

Under Hirai’s leadership, the trajectory of improvement has been gradual but unswerving. What was once the struggling Sony Ericsson has been transformed into the popular and profitable Sony Mobile Communications group. Mirrorless cameras have helped position Sony as a leader in imaging gear, with enthusiasts increasingly opting for the Alpha (née NEX) range over the traditional DSLR format that Canon and Nikon still dominate. And most recently, the PlayStation 4 has managed to outsell its nemesis Xbox One while almost doubling subscriptions to Sony’s paid PlayStation Plus service.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/10/5293414/sony-rediscovers-s...

PakG12• 12 years ago

I love Sony's mobile phones today. I bought one, so my money is where my mouth is. Who other than Apple can really truly differentiate and survive in the PC business today anyway? It's an unfortunate development, but I can't say that it's an overall reflection of the future of Sony. PS4 is rocking. Their phones are great. They still make good movies. Maybe their electronics division can do something special too. If yes, then they're firing on all cylinders. Let's see what happens.

shootinputin• 12 years ago

Maybe but that is what people were saying about Sony couple of years ago too, they have great products for e.g. their headphones are the ones I use Sony XBA-4, their top of the line in ear headphones.

Just something for house keeping, Sony managed to sell more than the Xbox One beucase Sony is selling the PS4 in 54 countries vs Xbox One is only available in 13 and is $100 more expensive. 4 million PS4s vs 3 million Xboxes. I think the victor is Microsoft over here, if MS does open Xbox up to more markets it will clearly outsell, then again maybe not.

perssontm• 12 years ago

Isnt that the same as samsung are doing with their devices? They come up with a phone/tv/dishwasher that have 550Ghz/100Mpix of whatever, but no clue for what it should be used. Its just "faster, and look, very large screen"

If samsung didnt produce stuff for others they might have been in the same situation, probably a bit better but close.

I guess the sony vaio line wont be missed if it goes away, I've never come by a vaio which as nice/good.

kalleboo• 12 years ago

Just how do you get 4K content to people at home?

http://blog.sony.com/press/sony-launches-worlds-first-4k-ult...

PhantomGremlin5• 12 years ago

Oh, man, that link proves my point. IMO.

Doubtlessly, numerous people on this planet woke up this morning and said: "wow, this day would be great if I could see a 53-year-old movie in 4K. Because watching The Guns of Navarone in Blu-Ray just doesn't do it justice". No, I don't think that happened this morning (or any other morning).

Or maybe they all said: "If only I could see Dr. Peter Venkman get slimed in 4K quality, my life would be complete. Watching Ghostbusters in Blu-Ray doesn't let me appreciate the nuances of that 29-year-old film". No, I don't think too many people said that either.

I understand that Sony has to start somewhere. But there's no "killer app", or in this case "killer movie" on that list. (Though, granted, there was plenty of killing in Breaking Bad). Ghostbusters is one of my favorite movies of all time, but I'm not going to buy a brand new TV set just to re-watch it in 4K. Still, if they add Forbidden Planet to that list, maybe they'd make a sale. :)

This is not a mass market product. In fact IMO there's not enough of a market for this to be a profitable product.

But as Dennis Miller used to end his rants: "of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong".

TeMPOraL• 12 years ago

Have there even been 10 "good" 3D movies made to date?

Yup. But the question is, "have there even been 10 good movies made to date?". Pretty much every good mainstream movie is made in 3D now, and people go to see it in 3D by default. I've recently been to a 2D movie in a cinema and then I realized how weird it looks; being accustomed to watching movies in 3D for last few years.

arethuza• 12 years ago

Were there really 3D versions of American Hustle, 12 Years a Slave, Rush etc. ?

[NB I like big action 3D blockbusters as much as the next person - but good ones seem pretty thin on the ground]

PhantomGremlin5• 12 years ago

Pretty much every good mainstream movie is made in 3D now

Okay, honest question, because I'm not up on the technology.

Are all these movies actually made in 3D, or are they mostly converted to 3D after the fact? Shooting in 3D has to be a lot more expensive. I can see doing it for big action movies, but is it needed for a typical RomCom?

nly4• 12 years ago

Erm no. Most movies are still filmed in 2D, and plenty of people still go to see 2D versions of "3D films" because they don't see the point in the 3D for that particular film, or in paying $20 to go and see it instead of the usual $10-11.

I go to the cinema, on average, about once a month. I don't even remember the last time I even noticed, or had to consider, whether to see a film in 3D.

raverbashing2• 12 years ago

And that's Japanese culture for you

No one will speak up because the bosses "know better" and the bosses won't listen as well.

corresation• 12 years ago

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the idea of 3D, and millions of sets were sold on the basis of it. The problem with 3D is purely an implementation issue -- people don't want to wear the glasses.

Is your argument that the display market can't be improved? Because of course that is...dubious. It is a huge market, and hundreds of millions of people simply need a reason to spend some of their cash on replacing their current device with a new one, just like every other device market. 4K with adaptive oversampling is enough to sell loads until the content arrives, and of course the content will arrive (increasing resolution in compressed material is one of the easiest ways to improve perceived quality for a given bitrate, obviously to a given floor).

It's interesting to contrast your post with the endless speculation that Apple is going to introduce an actual Apple TV (doing away with the supposed complexity of the modern getup), and this will be their next trillion dollar product.

It's also worth noting that the Engadget article seems to have derived a different take than some others. Others talk about Sony focusing on mobile/gaming/etc, splitting the television division off specifically so when the time comes they can do with it what they did with Vaio. That spin off somehow convinced Engadget that they are becoming the new division.

josephlord4• 12 years ago

I don't see how Sony are any different from other players in these areas. In fact they are probably closer to having content answers than most.

From a technical point of view there was no "big bet" on 3D. It is almost a software change provided the TV is capable of a high framerate. The marketing bet wasn't that big either it was just the obvious focus of the budget that year and could also be a cross category approach (some camcorders and still cameras can do 3D).

4K is a bigger more expensive technical change but what is the alternative? How much profit do you think there is in $500 50" TVs? After 30% retail margin?

You are mostly not wrong but it is a TV industry issue not a particularly Sony one.

Ex Sony TV Product Planner.

ctdonath2• 12 years ago

It is almost a software change provided the TV is capable of a high framerate.

Alas, Sony et al made it a hardware issue, requiring re-purchase of recently-purchased HD hardware and requiring the most expensive & annoying forms where possible (battery-powered high-price easily-lost/broken glasses). This when a relatively cheap polarizing overlay with passive glasses (heck, contacts even) would have made it a no-brainer upgrade.

higherpurpose• 12 years ago

As the PC market declines, I expect further selling of PC divisions and mergers in the PC market over the next few years.

goldfeld3• 12 years ago

It had been north of 5 years since I had last bought a laptop. It was a VAIO. I loved that computer as a man can love his bread-winner. Nowadays I work on an old trusty Acer (which feels close to a VAIO in finish, build quality and even style) and an old MacBook Pro (also top notch.)

Well, I just got a Samsung Ativ Book 9. What crap. I'm deep in buyer's remorse. For a computer supposedly with high finish, the keyboard is completely cheap and crappy and scratchy, the screen is meh, it's oversized (despite being super thin) and just overall feels cheap, cheap, crap. Don't buy it. I could only get Fedora 19 working (not latest Ubuntu, not latest Mint, all graphic driver issues) and it was laggy as hell, my keystrokes took a half-second to materialize. Presumably the graphics driver. Gonna try Fedora 20 right now, or I'll go after driver updates or something. Don't buy this sucker. I know I won't buy Samsung again over this. Wish I would have bought a VAIO. But then they sell out.

hessenwolf• 12 years ago

I also loved my vaio. It was white, solid, and computed, and the keyboard was lovely. I lost it in the divorce. I exchanged it for a Samsung netbook I gave her as a present, because she was having problems with her eyesight.

That said, the netbook is rock solid and very reliable. It saw me through a squalid period of sleeping on couches on top of it after drinking heavily. The keyboard is tacky crap, sure, but it types well. I also have a samsung smartphone and tv (complete coincidence that they had my favourite product in each range), and I would have a hard time knocking their engineering and reliability.

csmithuk2• 12 years ago

I've had similar experiences with everything Samsung I've used apart from their SSDs. They just don't seem to put much engineering effort into their products.

Acer knock out some good machines. I miss their Timeline series. I got 12 hours out of one of them once and it was super-cheap.

nly4• 12 years ago

If it sucks so much, why not return it?

goldfeld3• 12 years ago

Unfortunately, not every place in the world allows no-questions-asked returns like in the US. Even at an intl' chain store like Walmart (where I bought it.)

spullara• 12 years ago

No one can make laptops as great as Apples. It isn't because of skill though, no one else can expect to sell as many of the same model. The current MacBook Air is magic and the Retina Pros are amazing performance wise. All while retaining a great look and build quality. Hard to do that when you sell dozens of skus the way sony, dell, hp, Lenovo, etc do.

72deluxe5• 12 years ago

Very true, mainly because nobody can expect to sell as many as the same model.

What always strikes me is that when you go to a PC laptop, the keyboard flexes in the middle. This is rubbish. The MacBook does not.

EDIT: Why downvotes? Does your laptop flex in the middle when you press the H or G key? PC manufacturers seem to not bother with much bracing there.

sz4kerto2• 12 years ago

Why downvotes?

Because the basis of your opinion is anecdotal and seemingly you haven't used business category PC laptops. They have disadvantages compared to Macbooks (heavier, clunkier, and usually more expensive than a Macbook Pro), but many advantages as well (much-much better cooling -- I hate my rMBP because of it's constant cooling issues; much-much better warranty -- if it breaks, you can get a replacement in a few hours).

qwerta• 12 years ago

I prefer other brands, but it is great to have MacBooks as fallback options. It is only maker who still makes 16:10 screens.

omnibrain2• 12 years ago

I hope the TV subsidiary can stand on it's own feet. Losing it would be a shame because they build damn fine TVs. The only problem they have is that others advertise their features more aggresivly and customers prefer to buy some 50" candy-colour "Smart TV" for 800€ instead of a feature rich awesome display 46" Bravia for 900€.

csmithuk2• 12 years ago

I thought that when I bought my Bravia EX but it's a pain in the ass. iPlayer is poorly maintained and it barely plays anything on a good day, the thing is impossibly slow for the first minute when you turn it on and it's the fussiest thing I've ever seen when it comes to media playback. The TV bit is pretty good but I didn't really buy it for that as there is literally nothing on TV in the UK. Oh and it randomly decides to inform the watchers that it's going to turns itself off even though every option in it is set to not automatically turn off.

It's no Triniton to make a comparison.

I've had zero experience with other smart TVs so this might be the best user experience out there -- please feel free to confirm this or not as I was thinking about getting rid of it.

omnibrain2• 12 years ago

To be honest, I can only compare it to Samsung because that's all my parents and my friends have. My GF's parents have a Sony.

I found Samsungs menus and control scheme to be unbearable and the owners often struggle with it too.

I usually play media directly from my PC via UPNP and that works. The built-in Youtube app is okay for the occasional video, too. Other than that I only play DVDs and Blurays and the media libraries of german TV channels (they are usually not available via built-in apps to the same extend) via a connected Rapsberry Pi.

A big plus is that my TV is able to put out DD 5.1 it receives via HDMI on it's optical output.

The picture qualities beats every other (LED) TV I have seen. It even came with halfway decent factory settings. Don't ask me how much time I spent trying to adjust the colours on my parents TV. But they grew to like the candy colours...

josephlord4• 12 years ago

Which EX is it (particularly the second last digit that indicates the model generation)? The first ones to get iPlayer actually use the MHEG system to deliver it so it is possibly less well supported by the BBC as that version of iPlayer only used on that year's Sony TVs and for Freesat and Freeview. I have a KDL-yyxXz23 which is used the next version of iPlayer which seems to work pretty well to me. The Amazon/Lovefilm service also works pretty well. Even newer Sony's get Netflix too I believe.

The Sony will wake up/turn on to the input it was turned off on so you could always supplement it with a recent internet TV box of some sort (Apple TV/Roku/Recent Sony Blu-ray/Recent Samsung Blu-ray...) whichever appeals to you.

I haven't evaluated recent models or competitors recently although I did buy an LG Blu-ray player/Freeview HD HDD recorder with internet features that not only probably had privacy leaks but also the usability was pretty catestrophic.

Disclaimer: I used to work in Sony TV Product Planning in Europe and did some of the business development for the internet services in Europe.

be5invis• 12 years ago

I wish that Sony publish all the Vaio engineering diagrams before its death. I don't want this spirit disappear.

josephlord4• 12 years ago

The trouble is there is almost no profit at all in TV's these days (and for most of the last decade too). It is too prestigious and therefore competitive as there is still the impression that it is the key part of becoming a major consumer electronics player (I think it is probably wrong these days and mobile phone/tablets may be more important). Differentiation of TVs is hard because features appeal to niche's of the total market and basic picture quality is now good on most products and MOST people can't recognise a good picture if they see it.

Sony has also suffered badly along with Panasonic from the strength of the Yen. A great deal of the cost base is still in Japan even when manufacture is outsourced into local markets which destroys any real possibilities of profit.

I don't know what the effect of making the TV arm it's own subsidiary will be, (it may be mostly to allow profits to be shown in the rest of electronics), but I really don't know what the best thing to do with it would be. I'm not sure it makes commercial sense to make TV's in its own terms but it is doubtful whether Sony could sustain franchised retail chains without TVs so it may affect the total business if they withdrew completely. It would also be a shame as the products are good and there are many good people there but I just can't see a future of long term profitability.

Ex Sony TV Product Planner/Biz Dev (Europe)

PhantomGremlin5• 12 years ago

The real problem is that an LCD TV isn't something that breaks very often. Nor does it really need adjustment, like the old CRTs frequently did.

Sony marketing made 3D a big thing in 2010: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB126281921528818651 Sony Pins Future on a 3-D Revival Jan. 7, 2010

But I had just bought a big screen Sony XBR6 the year before. That TV is still my primary TV, still working fine. I might replace it in another 5 years, "just because". But until then, there had better be a really compelling "breakthrough" for me to justify buying another TV. And, IMO, 3D wasn't it. And 4K isn't it, either, for reasons I already outlined.

Most households got rid of their CRTs a long time ago. So the long-time scenario of moving the old TV to the basement doesn't work anymore, because the basement already has an LCD, and that LCD still works great.

I agree with you, there's just no future of long term profitability in TVs anymore.

gesman2• 12 years ago

High end Sony Vaio are the best laptops the money can buy.

When I custom ordered one from them - they notified me about every step from the beginning of manufacturing to the movements between facilities to detailed cross ocean shipping.

It is Made in Japan.

Every time I use this Laptop (one of Z-models, gold colored) it's a joy.

I think instead of trying to compete for made-in-china junk buyer's attention - they should of elevate their Z-line to fashion statement for very high end, demanding users.

gesman2• 12 years ago

Oh, and when ordering - they also allows you to select (at no charge) the "fresh start" option.

Fresh start means - absolutely no preload with bloatware crap. Just bare OS with couple Sony utils.

Sony sells its VAIO PC business, makes TV arm its own subsidiary

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