Measles Cases Triple in U.S., Vaccine Refusal Here and Elsewhere to Blame

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/12/measles-spike-us/

by grannyg00se • 13 years ago

58 81 13 years ago

adventured4• 13 years ago

This kind of behavior needs to be publicly shamed and banished back to the pre-industrial age. Immense social pressure should be brought to bear. Failure to vaccinate your children against something like measles should be viewed as one notch down from child abuse.

I'd also support eliminating all public welfare programs for people that refuse core vaccinations. If you want to be a voluntary threat to society, you shouldn't get to piggy back on it.

It's beyond an absurdity that America should be drifting backwards on something like this, given the progress we've made in the last century toward understanding why/how vaccines work. Gates will help eliminate polio in India, just as we're reacquiring it here.

Retric2• 13 years ago

I support Murder charges for anyone failing to vaccinate there children resulting in an infection and death even if it's indirect. Aka your kid infects Sam who infects Bob who dies, your now up on Murder charges.

TallGuyShort2• 13 years ago

That's extreme. Vaccines are not without risks, even if they vast majority of society believes they're tiny risks with massive benefits. By all means seek to educate people, use public funds to subsidize them, but murder charges because you refuse to inject a substance in your child's body? No.

edit: I'm biased because yesterday my daughter had a mild reaction to a vaccine that was not listed on any of the information materials our doctor had given us. But believe me that's a bias I'll take to my grave. I'm not going to refuse all vaccines over that - but it's never your decision to make for us.

robryk• 13 years ago

Killing someone while driving and texting isn't murder in most (all?) jurisdictions AFAIK.

patrickg_zill2• 13 years ago

Extreme and stupidly ignorant of how vaccines actually work... no vaccine is 100% effective - the MMR vaccine is claimed 95% effective with 1 dose and near 100% with 2. But the MMR vaccine is one of the oldest and most effective.

Other vaccines have as low as 67% immunity (or even worse) - so, out of a class of 30 kids, with 1 kid not vaccinated, there would still be 10 possible "suspects".

And you would automatically charge the unvax'ed - turning many of the foundational concepts of law upside down in your hysterical crusade.

bananacurve4• 13 years ago

Did you even read the article? Western Europe has 25,000 per year and America has 175 this year mostly from Europeans who don't vaccinate.

adventured4• 13 years ago

Did you?

“It is not a failure of the vaccine,” Frieden said. “It’s a failure to vaccinate. Around 90 percent of the people who have had measles in this country were not vaccinated either because they refused, or were not vaccinated on time.”

fnordfnordfnord3• 13 years ago

This kind of behavior needs to be publicly shamed and banished back to the pre-industrial age. Immense social pressure should be brought to bear.

That is already the case. It (shaming others) may feel good to some people but it doesn't appear to be effective.

doktrin• 13 years ago

25k cases in Europe every year? Can anyone provide any context around what appears to be a shockingly high number?

adventured4• 13 years ago

It's almost exclusively due to the lack of vaccination.

"In 2007, 3,104 (87%) measles cases in Europe were unvaccinated"

"However, this controversy [autism claims] resulted in the proportion of children in the United Kingdom who received their first vaccine dose by 2 years of age decreasing from a high of 92.5% during April–June 1995 to a low of 78.9% during the same period in 2003."

http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/suppl_1/S353.long

And

"In the year ending April 30, 2012, a total of 17,448 measles cases were repoted in the European Union and Iceland, Liechtenstein, and Norway"

"Vaccination status was known for 84 percent of the cases, of which 82 percent had never received the vaccine, 13 percent had received one dose, and 4 percent had received two or more doses"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gerganakoleva/2012/07/02/what-re...

radicalbyte• 13 years ago

1. In the UK the tabloids (Daily Mail, Mirror, Sun et al) publicized bogus scare stories about the MMR vaccine and autism.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/apr/25/mmr-scare-ana...

2. In The Netherlands, certain groups reject vaccines on religious grounds. Specifically the Dutch Reformed.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2013/06/measles_outbre...

I'd assume that the cases in "rich" Europe are related.

There are some pretty poor countries in Europe so I'd guess that that the majority of the cases will originate from there..

bananacurve4• 13 years ago

Western Europe has had 25,000 cases of measles every year for the last three years… in great part due to vaccine hesitancy.

Apparently Europe needs to get its act together. They have already caused 175 cases in the US, I hope we don't have to start screening Europeans.

oceanstone6• 13 years ago

From my understanding, fear of vaccines is closely tied to Thimerosal content, which is a derivative of Ethyl Mercury. The idea is, "there's Mercury in the vaccine, and Mercury causes Autism" - which is scary thought for a parent. If there was empirical data showing zero correlation between Autism rates, and Thimerosal, I think we'd see more people accepting vaccines.

rocksinsocks2• 13 years ago

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Autism/

oceanstone6• 13 years ago

Cool, so the studies have been done: http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2004/Immunization-Safety-Review-V...

"The committee concludes that the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between the MMR vaccine and autism. The committee also concludes that the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism."

seiji• 13 years ago

Is there empirical data showing non-zero correlation?

oceanstone6• 13 years ago

Good question - I'm not aware of any such studies.

Justsignedup• 13 years ago

And that was because some jerk wanted to sue the vaccine makers, failed multiple times, but his ripples are still seen. The cost of an idiot ignoring critical vaccines in a society is pretty high. Should be made illegal.

pekk2• 13 years ago

That isn't how science works. You have to demonstrate a link between measles vaccines and autism. You can't just wait for someone to disprove it forever, because that is not possible.

windsurfer• 13 years ago

And that isn't how the irrational public works, it seems.

gizmo686• 13 years ago

This is medicine. You have to demonstrate that a treatment is safe and effective before you can begin using it. You even have to show that it is likely safe and effective before you even get to test on humans.

The only difference with vaccines is that we have already demonstrated that they are safe and effective, and what they prevent is unusually damaging to society (epidemics). They are also unusual in the sense that not getting vaccinated yourself increase the risk of others, even if they have been vaccinated.

fnordfnordfnord3• 13 years ago

That is kind of how medicine was practiced until fairly recently, and by some accounts continues to be practiced today.

ceejayoz• 13 years ago

If there was empirical data showing zero correlation between Autism rates, and Thimerosal, I think we'd see more people accepting vaccines.

There is, and they're not. People trust random myths on the internet over the CDC.

mikeash5• 13 years ago

Why do you phrase the "data showing zero correlation" thing as a hypothetical? That's the world we're in, right now.

raverbashing• 13 years ago

What I think happened is: there was a big pushback against Thiomersal in local antiseptics

So, they create a campaign against its "dangers" while maintaining it in vaccines? It confuses people.

Yes, it has its risks, but the benefits outweigh it.

But it's being phased out in vaccines as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal

techsupporter• 13 years ago

You cannot prove an impossibility, so demonstrating no correlation between Autism and Thimerosal is not going to happen. The possibility, however, is so miniscule as to be drastically outweighed by the benefits of vaccination.

It is also a completely irrational fear stoked by celebrities with axes to grind and discredited medical "professionals." Acetaminophen can cause liver failure but people give that to their children all the time and can easily give an overdose that will be fatal to children yet not at all harmful to an adult. If a parent buys a house built prior to 1978, the lead paint in the rooms can cause brain damage and hearing problems in children, but people buy those houses all the time. People even fail to install safety seats properly (or at all). These are all dangers proven to kill or harm children far more often and far more dramatically than the hypothetically miniscule risk of getting Autism from a vaccine.

My child's pediatrician flatly refuses to have vaccine deniers as patients. Summaries of studies rebutting Jenny McCarthy are posted in exam rooms and the full studies are available as free handouts to anyone who asks. If a parent declines vaccines that are on the standard "minimum required vaccinations for public school enrollment" list, the parent is invited to seek another doctor. And, for me and my kid, I'm thrilled that she has that stance.

oceanstone6• 13 years ago

The possibility, however, is so miniscule as to be drastically outweighed by the benefits of vaccination

Good point - there's a societal gain to vaccination.

If a parent declines vaccines that are on the standard "minimum required vaccinations for public school enrollment" list, the parent is invited to seek another doctor. And, for me and my kid, I'm thrilled that she has that stance.

It sounds like you've looked at the evidence, and made a rational decision.

I plan to vaccinate my children too, on a healthy schedule. :)

There's still a lot of value in discussing the beliefs of those who don't. They are people, with free will, and yelling at them / labeling them doesn't solve a whole lot. Though you / other HN commenters might have a different view on this.

sanskritabelt• 13 years ago

Thiomersal (note spelling) is no longer used in vaccines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal and generally hasn't been in infant vaccines for over a decade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy

res0nat0r• 13 years ago

Thimerosal was removed from vaccines a long time ago. Also Andrew Wakefield has been throughly discredited, his paper retracted, and he has also had his medical license revoked.

The Panic Virus is a great book about the autism/vaccine mess.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11625150-the-panic-virus

christkv3• 13 years ago

The worst thing about people refusing to vaccinate their children is the fact that they themselves probably had all the vaccines in their childhood and did not suffer any consequences.

I support banning of unvaccinated children from kinder gardens and schools as I think it's unacceptable to compromise herd immunity because of selfish non-scientific beliefs that verge on ideology at this point.

kreek• 13 years ago

My wife and I have given our children all the vaccines we had as children and it was an enormous struggle to do so. Children now receive many more vaccines than we did, and many of them are delivered in combination; up to four or more at a time.

Autism aside there is a very real danger of a reaction when you combine so many vaccines. Others are completely unnecessary, like Hep B at birth.

If the governing bodies went back to a sane vaccine schedule I think some of the refusers would come back into the fold.

grannyg00se2• 13 years ago

So are you saying that if you only wanted to give your child the vaccines that you had received as a child, you couldn't do that without also giving them a bunch of other unwanted vaccines?

Can you not vaccinate your child by your own selection and timeline?

mikeash5• 13 years ago

Is there a real danger from combining vaccines? That's something people keep mentioning but I've yet to see any data on it. Is it actually safer to spread them out, or is that just another myth?

aestra5• 13 years ago

there is a very real danger of a reaction when you combine so many vaccines

[citation needed]

I'd like to see the studies that say that combos are worse than individual. I'm not trying to be a dick, but when you make claims, you gotta back it up with data.

christkv3• 13 years ago

The vaccination program here in Spain seems fairly simple and straight forward. Vaccines at 2, 4, 6, 12, 15 and 18 months. Most of the vaccines are booster shots for the initial sets. Here they are 2 shots for each step. 1 combination vaccine and one for Meningitis.

They only give the Hep B vaccine if the mother is positive for Hep B.

lemming3• 13 years ago

Autism aside...

You know that's been totally and utterly discredited, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy

there is a very real danger of a reaction when you combine so many vaccines.

Citation?

Others are completely unnecessary, like Hep B at birth.

Citation? Wikipedia suggests it's been very successful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_B_vaccine

ASpring• 13 years ago

The worst thing about people refusing to vaccinate their children is the fact that they themselves probably had all the vaccines in their childhood and did not suffer any consequences.

Even though you're supporting a good cause, that doesn't make this line of reasoning correct. That's purely anecdotal.

secstate3• 13 years ago

And this is what I'm talking about. It's pure pseudo-science at this point and everyone involved has an emotional attachment to the cause.

"Those assholes who don't vaccinate ... "

"Those assholes who require me to vaccinate ... "

We're all gonna die of something, and damned if most of the time it will have been somewhat preventable. Surely declining vaccination is not the greatest negligent act someone in a developed country can choose (hello, texting and fucking driving).

Alex39172• 13 years ago

"I think it's unacceptable to compromise herd immunity because of selfish non-scientific beliefs that verge on ideology at this point."

I don't understand this point of view. We literally live in a country where our government uses vaccinations as part of secret assassination campaigns. Reluctance to get vaccinated doesn't necessarily mean ignorance about science.

mc32• 13 years ago

If science allows us to determine patient-0, I think it's reasonable that people be allowed to sue the culprit parents for tort, if not criminality, at this point.

bashinator• 13 years ago

Nobody (that I'm aware of) who refuses to vaccinate their childern, does so for this reason.

darkarmani2• 13 years ago

We literally live in a country where our government uses vaccinations as part of secret assassination campaigns.

WTF? What campaigns are these? They have programs where they assassinate people with vaccines?

raphinou2• 13 years ago

Whn says that more than 95% of measles mortality was in low income areas. Is the low mortality rate in higher income areas due to a higher rate of vaccination, or does better medical infrastructure itself lower the moratality? Genuinely interested to hear what knowledgeable people think.

raphinou2• 13 years ago

I am disappointed that no one answered my question. With the number of comments i read expressing very strong opinions, i had hoped someone would have investigated that point.

DrJokepu• 13 years ago

A friend of mine works for the New York City Department of Health and closely follows the current measles outbreak. According to him, the outbreak (and the rejection of vaccination) can be tied very strongly to certain religious group.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6236a5.htm?mobile...

grannyg00se2• 13 years ago

Wait....this is the largest outbreak since 1996 and all that happened was one kid got pneumonia and one woman had a miscarriage? These things happen every day. Seems like a lot of money, work, and debate over a relatively minute issue.

Even in that larger 1996 outbreak nobody died.

And we've got people comparing vaccine refusal to child abuse! If that's child abuse, you're going to have to take a serious look at every parent of an illiterate grade schooler. And while you're at it, your child abuse radar should be going crazy whenever you see an obese toddler.

mikeash5• 13 years ago

"And while you're at it, your child abuse radar should be going crazy whenever you see an obese toddler."

What makes you think it doesn't?

spikels2• 13 years ago

Anyone else notice Yahoo's new Global News Anchor Katie Couric is one of those helping spread doubts about vaccines, the HPV vaccine in this case[1]. HPV is responsible for more than 25,000 cancers in the US each year[2] and around 6,000 deaths[3]. Worldwide figures are probably 15 times greater.

[1] http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st...

[2] http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/hpv/statistics/cases.htm

[3] http://www.kegel.com/hpv/deaths/

aestra5• 13 years ago

I think we should also be vaccinating males for HPV, they spread it, and it also causes cancer in men (though it is less likely) such as penile and anal cancer.

Right now we are only vaccinating women.

shirro• 13 years ago

It is now available to all boys aged 12-13 through a school based vaccination program in Australia. Same as girls.

bananacurve4• 13 years ago

I find it amusing to see articles like this that are up voted because the title paints the US in a bad light, but upon reading casts Europe in a bad light and therefore gets flagged.

mikeash5• 13 years ago

Where's the option to display the thoughts of voters and flaggers? I can't seem to find it in my settings.

Measles Cases Triple in U.S., Vaccine Refusal Here and Elsewhere to Blame

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