Qatar: Abolish Exit Visas for Migrant Workers

http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/05/30/qatar-abolish-exit-visas-migrant-workers

by zura • 13 years ago

101 54 13 years ago

pcurve2• 13 years ago

"Qatar and Saudi Arabia are the only Gulf Cooperative Council states with an exit visa system"

They're in a good company. Only other countries to have exit visa are North Korea and Uzbekistan. (In the latter, you can still travel to most former USSR neighbors without exit visa)

schoash• 13 years ago

Kuwait has the same system for expats working in government.

genieyclo• 13 years ago

Also Eritrea. It is why there are shoot to kill orders for Eritrean border guards if they see any of the thousands of Eritreans fleeing Eritrea every month.

pcurve2• 13 years ago

I'm embarrassed to say I hadn't even heard of that African country and their people's ordeal until you mentioned it. Thanks for the information.

tokenizer2• 13 years ago

Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which is even named after the royal family (who does that anyway?) are countries that offer us a glimpse of neo feudalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-feudalism).

This is a potential problem for every country. While western governments are considered much different than both Qatar and Saudi Arabia, the trajectory is leaning towards the paradigm those two countries occupy. This is of course, inequality, which is the measure that slavery falls onto one side at the end.

We can look at this policy as a policy, or we can have an intellectual argument on the merit of this type of governance. GOVERNMENT is literally what society as a whole, consents to being legitimate use of force. Military, Law, and Order.

No obviously we can assert that the power of the Sauds and the Thani is illegitimate today in the western world, because we ourselves have in our past moved away from the concentrated and hereditary control of power, into the hands of the super rich (the other end of the inequal spectrum).

So while I applaud hrw.org for pointing attention to this horrible policy, and more intellectually honest headline could read, "Qatar's People: Overthrow your illegitimate rulers.".

Any westerners who are reading this article and are upset or angry, need to fight against neo-feudalism in the US and European countries. The only way we can truly help the people of Qatar and Saudi Arabia is by stronghand political means. Not seeing anything from the US regarding these matters speaks volumes of their slide into neo-feudalism in my opinion. This is something seen both by anti-authoritarian leftists AND rightists(is this a word?).

rhizome3• 13 years ago

It can also be seen as an economic goal, and that some in the Western business environment might actually be jealous of the exit visa policy.

tokenizer2• 13 years ago

Good point. It definitely depends on where policy is being thought up. I would say your point is a solid thing to be worried about, considering the pull the executive public-business class has on the world.

My question to you is that if feel like economical arguments trump moral/ethical arguments in terms of legitimate public policy?

nknighthb• 13 years ago

named after the royal family (who does that anyway?)

Depends on the scope of "that", but...

Kingdom of Hanover (defunct), Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, Liechtenstein, Virginia, Maryland, Georgia, Carolina (both), Alberta, Prince Edward Island, Victoria.

And of course Pennsylvania was named for founder William Penn.

Should we start in on cities?

saljam• 13 years ago

I love this game. Ottoman Empire, Bolivia [1], China [2], Philippines, Mozambique.

1: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sim%C3%B3n_Bol%C3%ADvarl 2: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Chin

showerst• 13 years ago

Venezuela is officially the 'Bolivarian republic of Venezuela', so Simon Bolivar actually has _two_ countries named after him (the other being Bolivia).

tanzam75• 13 years ago

The Kingdom of Hanover was not named after the family.

Rather, both the Kingdom and the House of Hanover were named after the capital city of Hanover.

This is quite common for Western European royalty. Because they didn't have actual surnames, they used the location of the family seat. For example, the House of Windsor was named after Windsor Castle. The House of Habsburg-Lorraine was named after Habsburg Castle and the region of Lorraine. The House of Hohenzollern was named after Hohenzollern Castle.

turar2• 13 years ago

Washington, D.C. was named after George Washington while he was still an acting president.

nostromo• 13 years ago

I think it's a matter of recency.

If FDR (the US president when Saudi Arabia was named) renamed the US, "The United States of Roosevelt" it would have raised some eyebrows.

The only contemporary item on your list is Jordan.

informatimago• 13 years ago

Qatar has bought France. Complaints won't come from here.

jdmitch• 13 years ago

This is related to a broader international anti-slavery campaign, as the exit visa system is essentially the instrument for enforcing wage slavery in Qatar. cf. recent Guardian articles related to the world cup construction:

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/video/2013/sep...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars...

yapcguy• 13 years ago

Yes, given the story of a football slave, how ironic that they are holding the football World Cup in Qatar.

I hope every true football fan boycotts Qatar 2022 and puts pressure on top players and FIFA to move the World Cup to more deserving countries.

kubiiii• 13 years ago

I also really hope footballs fan wont go there. Maybe they'll fill the stadiums with the surviving workers.

TillE• 13 years ago

If they wind up holding it in winter, European enthusiasm for the World Cup is going to plummet even without the other factors. Forget all those public gatherings, large and small, which are a huge part of the experience of major tournaments.

The TV broadcasters are already objecting to the proposed winter move. It's just an awful decision on every level for everyone who wasn't being directly bribed by the Qataris.

I do maintain a tiny shred of hope that a few major nations will withdraw from FIFA after this summer, bringing the whole thing toppling down. It's a fantasy, though. Most football politicians are nearly as bad.

ciupicri2• 13 years ago

Football goes hand in hand with beer and other alcohol, so Qatar is going to face some challenges.

personlurking• 13 years ago

Politics and sports...arenas for the latter are created so that no one pays attention to the arena of the former.

jrockway3• 13 years ago

You forgot the obligatory "wake up, sheeple" remark.

nikcub• 13 years ago

Football and politics are inseparable.

It might be true in the USA that sports pacify the population, but in the rest of the world you have football fans starting wars (real wars), overthrowing governments, politicians and dictators owning clubs (being a director of a football club is a legitimate stepping stone in a lot of European politics), etc.

At the football forums I am a regular the top topics recently have all been about Qatar, the World Cup bid, etc.

The only reason Human Rights Watch picked up this campaign (they are late to the party) is because The Guardian and its football writers started writing about Qatar (and the example of the player cited within) before and after they won the World Cup bid.

annasaru• 13 years ago

For a migrant worker, it won't be surprising if the passport is deposited with the Employer at the time of joining work. I don't speak from personal experience, but from anecdotes I heard from friends and extended family. So even if there isn't an exit visa required, they don't have the passport, which means they can only travel with permission of their employer. A modern form of slavery.

rhizome3• 13 years ago

If it's policy it can't be slavery. /s

altero2• 13 years ago

Happened to my friend in Alaska fifteen years ago. Luckily for him my country allows two passports.

exit• 13 years ago

your friend went to work in alaska, and had their passport held by an employer?

Larrikin• 13 years ago

I've always wondered why the employees can't just report their passports as lost or stolen in these kinds of situations and get a new one.

jrockway3• 13 years ago

Who says they can't? There is absolutely no mention of talking to the French embassy or consulate in this article. That's the first place I'd go.

altero2• 13 years ago

The onus is on the expatriate either to find another exit sponsor, who must be a Qatari national, or to provide a certificate that there are no outstanding legal claims against the person trying to leave 15 days after publishing a notice in two daily newspapers.

This seems to be doable workaround. This could be possibly even automated, perhaps start-up idea?

I do not think this could be changed politically, US and those states are best buddies and any serious political pressure would be vetoed.

objclxt2• 13 years ago

This seems to be doable workaround. This could be possibly even automated, perhaps start-up idea?

I am guessing you haven't actually worked in Qatar or Saudi Arabia, the two Middle Eastern countries that retain exit visas. I have (Saudi Arabia), and I think it's really naive to think this is do-able, and even a little bit insulting to think a start-up could somehow solve what's going on here.

Let's consider the two alternatives: first of all, they are both no-goes for the type of workers who are trapped by exit visas. Placing a notice in two daily newspapers? Even if you manage to get that, you've then got to get the certificate. Getting any kind of official documentation out of the bureaucracy is next to impossible for someone who a) isn't a citizen of Qatar / Saudi, and b) has no wasta (which roughly translates into 'clout', or 'who you know').

Which brings us onto the other option: finding a Qatari national. The case cited in the article, of a French professional footballer, is rather unique. The vast majority of people unable to obtain exit visas are immigrant workers doing low-paid jobs no Qatari or Saudi wants to do. They are, for all intents and purposes, effectively slaves. I saw it with my own eyes when I was working there: indeed, I remember reading several stories of migrant workers trying to stow themselves away in planes out of Saudi.

So as an exploited worker let's say you manage to find a Qatari willing to sponsor your exit. Except you won't, for two reasons: firstly, no national would risk creating trouble with the state (especially in Saudi, which has a religious police force (the Muttaween), and even if you did find a national willing to help you (which again, would be virtually impossible) the chances are they'd have no wasta and would almost certainly end up in a dead end of paperwork and bureaucracy.

I met many good people in Qatar and Saudi: people who think the current system of 'government' (if you can call it that) is wrong, and that the large numbers of workers coming in from India, Indonesia, and the like are being exploited. But they are simply not able to do what you're suggesting - subvert the system - without serious and profound consequences.

lignuist2• 13 years ago

Yet two other countries on my personal No Fly List.

...

[x] UK (can force people to hand over passwords)

[x] US (probability that they reject people at the border/airport for ridiculous reasons)

[x] Qatar (exit visa required)

[x] Saudi Arabia (exit visa required)

...

Even if I'm not sure if those exit visas also apply to short term visitors. Better safe than sorry.

objclxt2• 13 years ago

I don't think Saudi will miss your custom - unless you're a Muslim (visiting for Hajj) or coming in on business you're going to find it near impossible to get into Saudi anyway. The only country it is harder to get tourist visas for is probably North Korea.

UK (can force people to hand over passwords)

You are aware that most, if not all countries can force you to hand over your passport? If you are arrested and bailed the government don't really want you trying to flee the country. Even if you're not arrested many courts can compel you to surrender your passport (for example, in a child custody case). Some countries will also make you surrender your passport if you're entering certain disputed territories (Chinese citizens, for example, must give up their passport when entering Taiwan).

jzwinck2• 13 years ago

He said passwords, not passport. The latter is just one tiny document (but, ID theft is scary). The former is explicitly so they can unlock all your secrets.

zalew• 13 years ago

The only country it is harder to get tourist visas for is probably North Korea.

and Turkmenistan.

pallingaround4• 13 years ago

Fun fact: Saudi Arabia didn't outright outlaw slavery until 1965. (No, not 1865' 1965)

Things take time in that part of the world

jzwinck2• 13 years ago

Fun fact: the US didn't provide full equal rights for its gay citizens until sometime after 2013.

turar2• 13 years ago

US abolished legalized racial discrimination just one year earlier.

ksrm• 13 years ago

[x] UK (can force people to hand over passwords)

Might want to add all these to your little list then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law

lignuist2• 13 years ago

Unfortunately the list gets longer and longer these days.

Qatar: Abolish Exit Visas for Migrant Workers

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