Linux developer Seth Vidal killed in Hit and Run accident on his bike.

http://www.wral.com/bicyclist-killed-in-durham-hit-and-run/12639104/

by codesuela • 13 years ago

80 81 13 years ago

wral.com

unwind• 13 years ago

Yesterday's submission: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6013989.

codesuela• 13 years ago

thanks, I hit Ctrl+F Seth but did not find anything in the top or recent submissions

fein2• 13 years ago

This is why we need bike lanes.

Also, make sure you wear lights at night guys/gals. You can buy cheap red flashers from the dollar store.

hkmurakami2• 13 years ago

Also reflective clothing.

NIL82• 13 years ago

Sad news.

I don't ride my bike out on the roads because of the danger of being hit. I often marvel at the courage, audacity, and sometimes foolishness of those who are brave enough to ride their bikes on our roads. There needs to be a stronger push to makes this safer.

Bike lanes should be in every city in the country. Everyone would be better off if there were bike lanes and bike use was encouraged. I realize that this probably isn't OP's intended point, but it's worth mentioning.

fein2• 13 years ago

I ride in the street every day, and violate our "no bikes on the sidewalks" rule constantly for my own safety.

Just last week I was almost hit while hogging the lane to make a left into my apartment complex by a car that thought it would be more fun to pass on the left (over the double yellow)... while I was making said left turn.

This was in broad daylight; I can only image what would have been the case had it been at night.

recursive• 13 years ago

The idea that bike lanes always make cycling safer is not universally accepted. Many cyclists believe that, at least in certain circumstances, it's safer to operate in the same lanes as motor vehicles. There are a number of reasons, but a couple of the main ones are increased visibility and reduced lane conflicts in right turns.

hkmurakami2• 13 years ago

Oh man. I was hit by a car from behind while cycling like Seth 2 months ago. The car was travelling at 50mph and if I had been hit straight on (I was hit by the sideview mirror) I could have easily, easily been in Seth's shoes. (I was in the hills and had to be helicoptered to the hospital)

I'm not sure how to describe it but I'm sitting here in front of my Linux desktop feeling really really uneasy. I tend to laugh off the accident these days but it's really hitting me that I could have been dead and not be able to write this post.

kliao• 13 years ago

i'm glad you're ok, haj!

lnanek2• 13 years ago

Kind of silly he was a programmer and should be logical, but then he rode a bike. It would be great if it was safe to ride around on our roads without a crash cage around you, but it isn't. Cycling is 1% of all trips and 2% of all deaths. If you can afford a car/taxi/shuttle/bus/etc. and value your life, you should not be getting on one.

jonphenow• 13 years ago

Are you saying that riding a bike is not logical? Minneapolis is pretty bike-safe. Bike lanes, commuter trails. Bicyclists should have helmets, lights and ride carefully at night.

I'm not sure how good Durham is, but I don't think this is the time or place to say that its just more logical to pay to get around your city.

arethuza• 13 years ago

Also, if you wanted to be purely logical about it you would have to balance the health benefits of cycling regularly against the risk of accidents.

_neil• 13 years ago

Maybe his logic favored the fact that bicycles are the most efficient mode of transportation.

elehack2• 13 years ago

There is one thing that anyone can do to help fix this situation.

Bicycle.

1, increased numbers of cyclists aid awareness among drivers and others. 2, increased demand helps justify building bike lanes, etc.

Yeah, it's a vicious/virtuous circle situation. It's tough until things improve.

But accusing those working on the cycling side of folly only makes it worse.

NIL82• 13 years ago

I see your point and it makes me think of the bumper stickers that say, "LOOK TWICE. MOTORCYCLES ARE EVERYWHERE." It would help if there were an organized effort to make people think about cyclists. I think it also warrants a PSA.

enoch_r• 13 years ago

Does being "logical" require that I never accept an elevated risk in order to do something I love?

sjmulder• 13 years ago

You don’t account for the physical and mental benefits the exercise gives you. Take look at [0] for example, which suggests that life expectancy is actually higher for cyclists.

0: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1185.html

nathanb2• 13 years ago

The crime rate in San Francisco is well higher than the national average [1]. If you value your life, you should not live in San Francisco. It's the only logical choice.

Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the US [2], and is empirically linked with dietary and lifestyle choices. If you value your life, you should not live in the US.

The leading cause of HIV infection in the US (by a large margin) is male-to-male sexual contact [3]. If you are gay and value your life, you should remain celibate.

Logical programmers will avoid all of these things.

HN, take note.

[1] http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-San-Francisco-Californi...

[2] http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

[3] http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/

thebooktocome• 13 years ago

There's not much "logical" about your arguments. Maybe you meant "rational", but then you failed to do any actual risk analysis.

rcavezza• 13 years ago

Riding a bike is dangerous. Take special precautions. Be aware of your surroundings. Wear bright colors. Wear extra lights if possible.

I am too scared to ride a bike in Boston, but I always make sure to check twice before opening my car door after parallel parking.

Be safe, bikers of HN.

savszymura2• 13 years ago

Riding a bike is dangerous

Not true. However I agree with all the other safety tips.

Cycling is as dangerous as walking (as a pedestrian). Source - http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_public/cycle-...

old-gregg• 13 years ago

Not in the US: I have not seen a single US city yet with proper bike lanes. At best (and this is rare) you're separated by a solid line which is not enough. But most of the time you're basically on your own.

I just looked up the scene of the accident at 1700 Hillandale Road, Durham on Google Street View. If you're on a bike there's nothing for you - you're like a slow engineless motorcycle. This is _very_ dangerous.

VMG2• 13 years ago

Makes me wonder about wearing a helmet, regardless of the heat and the gooflyness. On the other hand, I mainly ride the bike where there is little traffic anyway.

savszymura2• 13 years ago

Please familiarise yourself with the evidence for and against wearing cycle helmets.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_public/cycle-...

Edit:

mainly ride the bike where there is little traffic anyway

This. Use cycle paths that are off the (car) roads. It more pleasant and safer, and you can usually go faster too, as there are no traffic lights.

gnosis• 13 years ago

Riding a bike does not have to be as dangerous as it is in most places in the United States.

Here[1] is an interesting video on how the Dutch got their bicycle paths.

From the intro:

"The Netherlands has the world's largest number of cyclists, but it is also the safest place in the world to cycle. That is largely because of the perfect cycling infrastructure that can be found throughout the country. How did the Dutch get this network of high quality cycle paths?"

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o

stygianguest• 13 years ago

The more important difference is safety in numbers e.g. drivers will look over their shoulder before turning right, because usually there is a bike. Drivers are conditioned to take into account bikes and their erratic driving.

loki540• 13 years ago

I bike commute in Boston (Live in Somerville, bike into Boston), and while there's definitely a risk, I feel pretty safe doing so - there are a lot of good bike lanes that make it possible. I definitely agree with your recommendations - need to be very aware of the cars around you (assume everyone in a car is an idiot/out to get you), and I wear a neon jacket, along with lights when it's dark. I definitely feel like it's only a matter of time until I get doored, though. . .

snikolic• 13 years ago

As former Somerville to Boston year round bike commuter (I' now in SF), I just wanted to tell you to rock on and stay safe. :-)

I know a good number of bike commuters in Boston and we've all gone down at some point, some in worse ways than others, but I don't think anyone has been doored too badly, which was always my biggest fear. In my case, I was hit from behind while riding with my lights on in a bike line (Somerville Ave) and thinking I was hyperaware of the cars behind me (the car drove off, but I'm pretty sure it was a drunk driver from the erratic driving). In a friend's case, a police car without its sirens on in JP blasted through a red light and hit him head on. Both of these accidents and most of the serious bike incidents I know of occurred at night. I'm actually more afraid of darkness than doors nowadays.

ranman• 13 years ago

It almost sounds like the driver purposefully hit him:

http://www.wral.com/bicyclist-killed-in-durham-hit-and-run/1...

Witnesses told police that the car, a late-1990s or early 2000s model, slowed quickly and swerved before hitting Vidal and continuing north on Hillandale Road.

Ziomislaw• 13 years ago

most drivers do hit cyclists on purpose, to "teach them" not to ride on the street (street is for cars).

besides, most of the time there is no responsibility for the driver (I advice you to browse through "cyclist hit" articles on some pro-cyclist sites).

Story usually goes like this: I also were hit by a car last year. No responsibility for the driver. As I was unconsious the driver was free to tell anything. It ended with police determinig that I was cycling peacefuly and suddenly my front wheel fell off. If you wonder why I didn't go to court, my aunt is a judge, I asked her opinion and she convinced me thet I would just waste money - a person she knows personally takes care of those types of cases (main court - after which you might not appeal anymore), and she just doesn't like cyclists, so she makes sure drivers don't get "abused". (Poland, "Województwo Łódzkie" region) - that case is NOT special, simmilar stuff happens all over the world.

ethomson3• 13 years ago

I would not yet attribute that this was intentional (especially if the driver slowed quickly.)

The more likely scenario here is that the driver was distracted, did not realize that there was a cyclist in the lane - perhaps made worse by lanes narrowing - and slowed quickly and swerved to try to avoid the accident.

It seems especially unlikely that this was intentional when he turned himself in the next day.

Of course, yes it does happen that drivers try to scare or even harm cyclists for fun or because they believe that cars should be the only road users. But I don't think that's what happened in this case.

microtonal2• 13 years ago

Riding a bike is dangerous.

This really makes me feel sorry for people who live in countries that do not encourage cycling.

I was born and raised in The Netherlands. Every Dutch friend and family member of mine learnt cycling as a small child. Many of them still cycle daily without a helmet, special clothing, or whatever. I cannot remember anyone having a serious accident. Two persons I know broke their arms, but in both cases there was no car involved (icy roads).

The difference? We have bicycle lanes. Many of them. They are often separated from the main roads. When there are lights, there are often separate bicycle lights. Besides that, laws are highly in favor of pedestrians and cyclers. For instance, a car driver is always responsible for paying 100% of damages of children under 14 and 50% of damages of those over 14. So, if a 40 year old cyclist is hit by a car, and 75% responsible for the accident and the car driver 25% responsible, the car driver still pays 50% of the damages of the cyclist. One of the results is that drivers of motorized vehicles tend to be more careful.

tl;dr: ask your government to make more cycling lanes and pass laws that favor pedestrians and cyclists.

38253• 13 years ago

Do people ride their bicycles on a sidewalk in the Netherlands when a bicycle lane is not available?

newbie12• 13 years ago

The Netherlands doesn't have a sizeable auto industry with politically powerful unions in key political states. Unfortunately, the American auto industry bends government at all levels to its will...cars own the road and everything is designed around the auto here.

saalweachter• 13 years ago

What are the traffic rules like in the Netherlands?

Every time there's a bike story on HN, there's always a long side thread about bicycles not stopping at lights, going the wrong way down one way streets, etc etc, so I'm curious what happens in a place with mature infrastructure.

raverbashing2• 13 years ago

As you pointed, people broke their arms while riding a bike

I had an uncle suffer a fracture as well while riding (or better falling from) a bike. No cars were involved

So I'd say it is dangerous depending on the speed and terrain.

tzs2• 13 years ago

2011 bicycling deaths in the Netherlands: 200 [1] [2]

2011: bicycling deaths in the US: 677 [3]

The deaths in the Netherlands have an interesting distribution. Nearly 2/3 of them are people over 60.

[1] http://www.cbs.nl/nl-NL/menu/themas/gezondheid-welzijn/publi...

[2] (English) http://bicycledutch.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/road-deaths-...

[3] http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811743.pdf

ned_roberts• 13 years ago

Just to add more fuel to the bike vs car fire: Did anyone else catch that the driver was driving with a revoked license? [1] Clearly he shouldn't have been operating a vehicle and probably had a history of dangerous driving. But hey, this is America, we gotta drive.

[1] http://www.wral.com/man-charged-in-durham-hit-and-run-that-k...

wizzard• 13 years ago

Good to know the guy turned himself in (apparently). This should be the link of note now.

gbraad• 13 years ago

... :-( Condolences to my fellow Fedora community members and those who have worked with him at Red Hat. He will be missed.

Thanks Jono Bacon for his message: http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/07/09/remembering-seth-vidal/

dav• 13 years ago

Very sad. A close friend of mine was an acquaintance of Seth's. He pointed out this video of Seth talking about biking around Durham:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wE3gi...

VincentEvans4• 13 years ago

Personally, I find it odd that traffic laws in US actually mandate (!) that bicyclists are to use the roadway and not the sidewalk.

Growing up in former USSR, I, along with other kids, used a bike to get around and for pleasure and have always stayed on the sidewalk (I don't think there were any laws about bikes).

From experience, I feel there's very little chance of injuring anyone, and even if it does happen - it is likely to be much less frequent and much less serious than what we observe with the bikes sharing the road with the cars. On rare occasions (rural locations) where there was no sidewalk - you'd ride towards oncoming traffic, same as what common sense recommends for pedestrians - so that you can see the cars and can avoid them if situation calls for it. That's probably illegal in US, since it appears that bikes here are somehow deemed more like motor vehicles and not pedestrians.

To conclude - I think the status quo is misguided (originally wrote stupid) and dangerous and traffic laws oughtta be changed to put soft squishy humans on two wheels on the sidewalks.

irremediable3• 13 years ago

I used to think as you do concerning the pavement. However, experience cycling[1] has taught me that the pavement is not a safer place to cycle. Cars expect slow-moving pedestrians on the pavement, not fast-moving bicycles. Consequently, cycling on the pavement leads to a lot of collisions with cars as they pull in/out of driveways.

[1] In Oxfordshire, UK -- this may be inapplicable to the US.

VincentEvans4• 13 years ago

You go as far as to say that riding a bike on a sidewalk is not a safer place for the bicyclist as compared to riding it on a roadway along with cars? I'd expect you to be in a minority in this, your experience must be very different from mine.

The way I see it - if my 13 y/o daughter takes a bike to go to convenience store a couple of blocks down the street to get some ice cream with friends - I sure hope she breaks the traffic laws and stays on the sidewalk.

dougk162• 13 years ago

I always use the sidewalk when biking (legal in my area), but, besides the law, I can see some arguments against it. For one, many sidewalks are in bad repair, so if you have a bike designed for the flat surface of a road, a bumpy sidewalk can be a problem. I have a BMX-style bike, so no problem for me...the bumps are fun.

Another point is, even if it's a nice sidewalk, you generally can't go as fast as the road because of the danger of running into pedestrians and other random obstacles like fire hydrants, telephone poles, etc.

Yet another point, is that I hear very frequently that it's statistically safer to ride on the street. I haven't found a solid source for this though, so maybe it's not true. Or maybe it's true for a certain style/attitude of biking that doesn't apply to me. In my town, I certainly feel much safer on the sidewalk. Perhaps I have a higher chance of a minor injury on the sidewalk, but I will take that over a lower chance of getting hit by a car.

Generally, my attitude while riding is that I'm a pedestrian who can move a little faster than walking-speed, not an automobile that can move a little slower than driving speed.

VLM• 13 years ago

Locally you can identify a subdivision construction date pretty well as pre/post 1990 because post 1990-ish means no sidewalks. Post 2000 are of course all McMansions stuffed in like sardines, but there is a decade or so of normal houses without sidewalks in the 90s

I live in an area where population has been vaguely constant since around 1900, so we don't have many subdivisions like that, but I can imagine someone living in Las Vegas or parts of suburban CA may have never seen a residential sidewalk before. For those folks, residential sidewalks are pretty much like urban downtown sidewalks except much narrower, thus the areas with sidewalks tend to ban bicycles on them, there just isn't space for pedestrians to safely share with bikers. Seriously, only like 2 feet wide in spots.

dougk162• 13 years ago

The sidewalks in my area can't accommodate pedestrians and bikers at the same time, but I still use sidewalks while biking, and just hop off onto the road when I need to pass a pedestrian. Can't say it has been a problem for me. If I don't deem the road safe enough for the few meters required, I get off my bike and walk until the sidewalk is clear again. This of course doesn't work for everyone's type of bike and/or style of riding, but just thought I'd share my perspective.

jbrechtel• 13 years ago

This article, with some data about accident rates in various for/against traffic situations, disagrees with your intuition about riding against traffic:

http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/riskfactors.htm

VincentEvans4• 13 years ago

Ha, true. Thanks.

Patrick_Devine• 13 years ago

Seth, you'll be missed.

swayvil• 13 years ago

Hurtling multiton hunks of steel are incompatible with humans and other living things. We shouldn't mix them, but we do.

antitrust2• 13 years ago

Even bike lanes may not be enough. I'd prefer separate roads. That's sort of the approach taken by the green belts in my city, which allow you to bike alternate routes to some major destinations. Unfortunately, it's mixed pedestrian/bike traffic.

antitrust2• 13 years ago

The inevitable biking debate continues.

If the US had bike lanes, and bikes didn't choke traffic back to 8 mph as I see them doing every day on major streets, causing a half-mile backup[1], I think the US would be more friendly to bikes.

The problem is a sub-set of bike riders who generally are weekenders and seem to take pleasure in holding up traffic because it makes them feel important. Then in retaliation, there's a sub-set of car drivers who become enraged by this and act out typical road rage, except here it's a 2,000 lb vehicle versus a 48-lb vehicle with no external frame.

I don't think the solution is any of the following:

1. Car drivers suck 2. Bike riders suck 3. We need bike lanes!

I think it's going to require behavioral changes from both car drivers and bike riders, and probably a redesign of cities to be bike-accessible.

Back to the topic at hand: Seth's death is tragic and he will be missed. I think a lot of our rage comes from the frustration at losing someone who was such a talented contributor and also a person many of us admired for his personal traits as well.

___

[1] Montrose, Shephard, Memorial, Elgin and Richmond.

Linux developer Seth Vidal killed in Hit and Run accident on his bike.

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