$200M market for a product catering to prejudice. If you had a similar product idea or implementation that could make you rich; would you still execute?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7010885.stm

by juwo • 19 years ago

19 56 19 years ago

news.bbc.co.uk

brlewis3• 19 years ago

I would not be willing to spend years getting inside the heads of customers whose mindset I oppose. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet lose his soul?

byrneseyeview4• 19 years ago

I find it interesting that you're okay with opposing someone but not understanding why they think the way they do. Isn't that a bad sign?

jimbokun2• 19 years ago

I'm not sure that racism is worthy of deep contemplation.

brlewis3• 19 years ago

I don't mind spending an hour or a day understanding why they think the way they do. What I would mind is spending years at it, coupled with selling them something they think they need when what they really need is a change of mind.

jsmcgd• 19 years ago

There is nothing more wrong about this product than tanning creams. The users of this product aren't aspiring to be white people (which seems to be implied). It's used for aesthetic reasons.

8en• 19 years ago

I think there is a basic difference between a skin lightener and a tanning product. A more apt analogy would be 'hair relaxers' that were popular in the 1960's and 70's, these products helped African Americans straighten their hair. There is a pretty rich dialog about these products that I think would be worth reading to get a better appreciation of the context and controversy here.

I personally would not want to market a product that advanced an image of beauty in a culture with documented history of racism and classicism against people with dark skin. But that's just me.

byrneseyeview4• 19 years ago

It seems to me that as long as ethnicity correlates with appearance, and beauty means a certain kind of appearance, then some ethnicities will be more 'beautiful'. Italian muralists painted pale fat women even though such women were probably more common in Germany -- it was a standard of beauty that happened to favor one ethnic group over the group that promulgated it. Similarly, I don't think the people who decided that tan=attractive were part of some vast Latino/Latina Attractiveness Conspiracy.

augustus• 19 years ago

8en,

So which culture are you from? You can't be an American? And of course America is a culture without a history and prejudice against people with dark skin right?

alaskamiller• 19 years ago

If you can be a pornstar and make some money, would you still execute?

If you can be a doctor that does abortion, would you still execute? (Conversely, if you're a doctor that doesn't do abortions, would you still execute?)

If you can own a tanning salon and make some money, would you still execute?

If you can make songs about selling drugs, pimping ho's, robbing people and make money, would you still execute?

Everyone has their morality line drawn somewhere.

ajju13• 19 years ago

>If you can be a doctor that does abortion, would you still execute? >(Conversely, if you're a doctor that doesn't do abortions, would you still execute?)

I am quite sure all doctors are barred from executing anyone based just on "do no harm" if not the law of the land :P

byrneseyeview4• 19 years ago

This is hilarious. Here is a product that makes skin color literally skin deep -- and you're complaining that it appeals to prejudice?

chaostheory2• 19 years ago

This market is not really new... It seems a lot of E/SE Asians got cosmetic eye lid surgery to look more Western

http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/1101020805/story2.html

To understand it better all you have to do is walk around in a big Japanese city and look at the print ads (or hell just watch some of the commercials)... it still perplexes me to this day

ajju13• 19 years ago

This is not the same. It does not come out of a fascination with westerners and is a much older bias. See my other comments for an more detailed explanation.

chaostheory2• 19 years ago

yeah you're right

I forgot about ancient Egypt where it was looked down upon if a woman was dark (it looked as if she worked the fields during the day). It was alright for men though (since they have to command slaves/troops day or night)

nostrademons2• 19 years ago

Yeah, like deodorant, diamonds, Armani, the Model T, cruise ships, tanning salons, makeup, corsets, diet pills, jumbo mortgages, health spas, and The Great Vowel Shift of the 1600s.

Nearly everything is marketed by making you seem like a person of higher social status. If people were comfortable with who they were, we wouldn't need 90% of the goods on the market (and the remaining 10% would likely be much cheaper). It's not human nature to be content with your lot in life; if we made everyone equal, they'd find some new dimension to elevate. Bring on the Star-Bellied Sneetches!

jimbokun2• 19 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2uIJqqOlQw

michaelneale• 19 years ago

Not so sure about deodorant. Maybe it was once, but damn, I hope people don't use that as an excuse not to use it (and claim that their smell is natural or that they can't smell it).

webwright• 19 years ago

Not to mention hair dye, padded bras, shoe lifts, tanning lotion, girdles, braces (for straight teeth),teeth whiteners, razors, etc.

foo2bar• 19 years ago

Prejudice is just Bayesian reasoning. What's wrong with it?

brlewis3• 19 years ago

Bayesian treatment of email examines a large number of indicators (words) and chooses the best ones to make decisions. It can be very reliable. Prejudice works with a much smaller number of indicators (race, gender, etc.), most of which are poor quality, resulting in a lot of wrong decisions.

Stereotypes are useful in books and movies, because they fool you into thinking you have deep knowledge of a character you're barely acquainted with. In real life this is not a good thing.

axiom3• 19 years ago

I'm sorry to say, but it really seems like many people here are talking right out of their ass.

For people who actually lived in India for an extended period of time:

1. what is the driving force behind this market? is it purely aesthetics, like tanning creams, or does race play into it?

2. how large is the phenomenon? is it something common that many people think about or just a fringe market?

3. how is it viewed by the locals? are people who do this kind of thing ashamed to admit it?

ajju13• 19 years ago

1) It is pure aesthetics, but the bias against darker skin, while not based on race, is deep rooted and does result in people with darker skin being discriminated against. It is not to the degree of dark skinned people not being allowed in X places, but it is bad enough that a groom would very often choose a fairer bride to a darker one.

2) It is very wide spread.

3) Not really. It has been around for thousands of years and has very little to do with recently developed fascination for or admiration for Europeans. Conceivably it could have it's roots in the "Aryan invasion" theory or a another time thousands of years ago when the ruling class had fair skin, but you will see references to "fair princesses" in mythological Hindu texts thousands of years ago. It is important to note though that there are references to "dark skinned beautiful women" also in some of these texts. So the bias could have been regional inside India. I don't know of anyone who has studied this extensively.

axiom3• 19 years ago

Thank you for your response.

One more question, is there a movement in India to counter this trend? kind of like the civil-rights movement in the US 50 years ago?

Also, a related question, how prevalent is the caste system? are people discriminated against based on their caste? I hear it's not a significant factor anymore, but what's your experience been?

DanielBMarkham• 19 years ago

"catering to prejudice" brings to mind setting up sites for the KKK or something. This is more like girls wanting to look like Britney, or kids dancing like Michael Jackson, or yuppies competing for the best BMW, or strippers getting boob-jobs. It's a social-fashion issue. Yes, perhaps there is prejudice involved, but it sounds more like garden-variety fashion and competition based on looks than deep-seated racism.

The better question to me is where do you draw the line. What's a business model that you wouldn't execute? I draw the line at companies who do not treat people in a way that they themselves would want to be treated and that causes direct bodily harm. For example, if you've got a web site selling drugs to kids over the internet, that's obviously not something you would want sold to your kid.

$200M market for a product catering to prejudice. If you had a similar product idea or implementation that could make you rich; would you still execute?

Related Stories