How to Negotiate a Job Offer

http://blog.upstart.com/2013/05/how-to-negotiate-job-offer.html

by kellegous • 13 years ago

176 104 13 years ago

blog.upstart.com

chollida12• 13 years ago

> Pre-reqs – If you’re not currently working, and you don’t have competing offers, you’re pretty much out of luck. So task #1 is to make sure you have competition for your talents. Otherwise, you might be able to ask for something small around the margins (eg help with relocation expenses), but you’re not in position for serious negotiation.

This is so, so true. Having a strong BATNA is 90% of negotiating. When I negotiate a package with someone, I want to do 2 things:

1) make sure I compensate them fairly. I've learned that skimping on salary is penny wise and pound foolish. If an employee feels slighted by their compensation they'll start looking for a new job immediately after starting working with me.

2) make sure I'm not over paying and setting myself up for resetting my entire salary structure. Raising salaries is part of doing business, resetting salaries downwards is darn near impossible to do.

johnrob2• 13 years ago

I am baffled why managers rarely understand 1). In addition to slighting employees, it makes them easy for other companies to poach. It's also messy and expensive to counter offer once a resignation letter has been sent.

jtbigwoo2• 13 years ago

Counter offers have a really low success rate in my experience. That person has already weighed the pros and cons of staying and decided to leave. It won't take much to push them to leave again.

In addition, everybody else in the company now has an incentive to look for a new job themselves since they see a short cut to get a raise.

Better to keep people happy by offering market-rate salaries in the first place.

praptak• 13 years ago

> It's also messy and expensive to counter offer once a resignation letter has been sent.

Not to mention that accepting a counter offer is a bad move. The offer might just be to keep you until they find a cheaper replacement. Even if that is not the case you will be perceived as risky - no investment in you, first to fire during tough times.

On top of that it perpetuates the crappy tactic "pay peanuts until they threaten to leave". Nope, counteroffers are for suckers.

ajross• 13 years ago

Honestly I think 2) is the more common mistake. Yes, employers should be looking to offer regular raises that match what an employee "could" get on the market, but that's hard even when you have the funds available and your employees' best interests in mind.

On the other hand, it's absolutely routine in my experience to watch managers bend rules and ignore feedback to bring in very expensive "senior" people to the team (often based on nothing more than a resume). All the incentives are wrong for this: everyone wants senior underlings, there's the "prestige" value in buying expensive commodities, you want to feel like your team is in the "big leagues".

And if done badly it can do terrible damage to a functioning team. It's never good to bring on an unproductive employee. Unproductive architects will kill your product.

vonmoltke• 13 years ago

> I am baffled why managers rarely understand 1). In addition to slighting employees, it makes them easy for other companies to poach.

That is why they combine it with convincing their employees that they should be lucky to have their job. My former employer got a lot of mileage out of that. It was made easier because some of the people there were lucky to have a job (based on competence or specialty).

hfsktr3• 13 years ago

I have been unemployed for over a year. Today I just got my first offer, which made me go "Coincidence?! Probably." It was less than I wanted but really after a year I feel like I have no power to negotiate.

Add to that my personality (avoid confrontation) and the fact that my last job I fell into so I didn't have to negotiate (there wasn't a contract it was just spoken and my checks increased).

That excerpt kind of summed up what I had been thinking all along. It was all I could do not to shout YES right away (before I even saw the details).

broham• 13 years ago

Congrats! Here's hoping that you'll be happy there.

orangethirty2• 13 years ago

I don't think you suffered from bad luck. Just bad marketing. Programmers need to realize that you have to learn how to sell yourself if you want a good steady job.

notahacker• 13 years ago

I felt the article missed the employer's BATNA though. If they loved you and your unusual skillset and their offer is well below market rate, you're in a much stronger position to negotiate than if they narrowly favoured you for a position they're not going to find difficult to fill, in which case they might be quite happy to suggest you walk away and work for BigCorp and their 30% extra perks package.

mhurron• 13 years ago

If they offer well below market rate, they didn't love you. An offer that much lower than what you could expect elsewhere is probably not worth negotiating with, they've already what they value you at.

Obviously this means you need to do your research and have a realistic idea what your skill set is worth. Don't let ego get in the way of that research.

dmourati• 13 years ago

+1 for BATNA. So few people understand this core concept. http://www.beyondintractability.org/bi-essay/batna

StockOptionCnsl8• 13 years ago

Very true. I have an illustration of this here: http://stockoptioncounsel.com/blog/negotiation-rhythms-2/201...

gyardley3• 13 years ago

This is so, so true. Having a strong BATNA is 90% of negotiating.

It's not true at all.

No other offer? Unemployed for a year? It doesn't matter. When you get their offer, flinch, flare your nostrils, make an 'oof' noise on the phone - whatever, do what you need to do to convey you're not impressed. Then say "you'll need to do better than that," and shut up until they say something.

Often you'll get an additional raise on the spot; most likely, they'll ask what you'll need, you'll throw out some ludicrously high figure, and you'll split the difference somewhere in the middle.

By the time a company makes you an offer, they're emotionally invested. They're already thinking about all the work you're going to do for them, and how much longer it's going to take to find another suitable candidate. They also know that many candidates negotiate, so they likely didn't lead with their best offer. In this situation, you are extremely likely to improve your position, strong BATNA or no BATNA - you just have to have the courage to ask for what you want.

carmaa2• 13 years ago

I feel that we may be ignoring the psychological aspects of having a strong BATNA here. It's easy to say that you should just "ask for a better offer", but it is waay easier to actually do that when you know how much you are worth to another employer.

Some people may be able to pull off something like what you describe, but all research I've read on negotiating indicate that knowing your BATNA and having a strong one is key to achieving good negotiation results.

run4yourlives4• 13 years ago

No other offer? Unemployed for a year? It doesn't matter.

Oh, but it most certainly does.

It may not affect how you negotiate, but it will certainly affect overall outcome.

By the time a company makes you an offer, they're emotionally invested.

With the exception of rare cases and poaching, no, they are not. This is not reflective of 99% of job offers. If you have built up a reputation as a superstar that can write their own ticket, then fair enough, you already have a BATNA and didn't even realize it - play hard ball.

If however, you are like a vast majority of job applicants, you are really nobody special. Some talent maybe, but not enough to make me drool. In this situation, the negotiation is very similar to every other purchase of goods. You are the vendor and the employer is the consumer.

In a land of multiple vendors, the consumer is king. I don't care how much you think your time is worth, I've already got a value in my head that I'm willing to pay for, and I'm going to do everything I can to pay less than that value and get myself a 'deal'.

Suppose instead of effort hours you are selling bananas. You and about 20 other banana stands. The first thing I as a consumer do is figure out how the banana market is looking these days, and determine the average quality and average price that the vendors are offering. I'm a savvy consumer now, so I figure that in order to not waste anyone's time, I'll pre-define the quality of the banana I'm willing to purchase (let's say higher than the average, but not the gold standard banana) and publicly state my intention to buy a fixed quantity.

Seeing a sale, you (along with others) contact me I take a look at your wares. I like what I see, and I know the market value, so I offer you the average price and see how things go....

Scenario A) You counter 30% higher. That's still in my price range, but I've still not seen the other banana vendors yet. I probably want to talk to them before I just give you that extra 30%. What's the rush after all? Your's isn't a bad offer, but I'm not sure it's the best...

Scenario B) You don't really counter, but simply tell me that you only have 50 bananas until next quarter and there's another guy down the street that's already told you he'd give you 20% more for them. He's on the other side of town though, so you don't really want to go out there...

In what scenario is the banana vendor in a stronger position to get that extra 30%?

If the outcome in this situation is so influenced by said externality, how do you figure it does not equally translate into a job negotiation?

A good BATNA can be an existing job, a high degree of skill, or a lot of comfort in your current situation. Regardless, having one gives you a tremendous advantage in any negotiation.

chollida12• 13 years ago

Really, I've never given someone a salary bump just because they asked and then shut up. That's a horrible way for a business to run.

I'll offer a competitive salaray that fits within my companies budget and salary framework. If an employee really wants more then the burden is on them to show that they've got a better BATNA.

I do agree with you that asking never hurts, but if a company caves just because you ask it's a very telling sign that whoever you talked to doesn't really know how to negotiate.

300bps• 13 years ago

As someone who has been in IT for over 20 years and makes multiples of the highest salary used as an example in the article, I can state that I agree with all the advice given.

The post does a good job of walking the fine line between getting what you're worth and coming off like a conceited jerk.

There are more advanced salary negotiating techniques and ways to get into positions to negotiate your salary but those tend to be situation specific.

lawnchair_larry6• 13 years ago

You make >$300k salary in IT? Please share your advice.

victorhn• 13 years ago

I suck at this stage of the new job process, at my current job i took the first offer which was "decent" money , largely because i didn't have much options (This is like dating).

My excitement about my new job and salary lasted about 3 months, from that point i feel like i am being underpaid, is it worth to try to renegotiate my salary when i have been only 3 months in a company? Otherwise how long should i wait to ask for a raise?

johnrob2• 13 years ago

If you are indeed underpaid, the first thing you need to do is get better offer from another company. At that point, your current company has to match or you leave.

Don't ask for more without an offer - it might work out but you risk compromising your current position without a having a backup.

antjanus• 13 years ago

If you ask for a higher pay based on an offer from another company, you're already screwing yourself over.

Your current job MAY accept your pay increase but if they do, there's already a break in trust. And you're setting yourself up for being replaced. You may as well take that new offer right now.

Better option is to negotiate based on skills, experience, responsibilities, and other factors.

davidguryn• 13 years ago

I have been through this experience, and it is tough to ask for a raise within the first year. The best time to negotiate is when you receive the offer, after that, you may need to wait a little longer than three months.

Don't claim value; create value. Can you demonstrate how you are underpaid, in that you have data that show what other people in similar positions are making? You'll also need to clearly outline how you have added value to your employer. Simply stating you deserve a raise will not be as effective and showing them why and what you have done to deserve it.

In the meantime, look at ways that you could improve how your company operates. If you are bored, create projects for yourself. Your employer will love you for it in the long term and provide you with a strong recommendation in the event you want to get a new job. Creating value now will also improve how you communicate when interviewing for other jobs.

hjay• 13 years ago

A bit of an addition to the note on not starting a long-term relationship on the wrong foot with your future employer.

I do think negotiating a job offer is very important. It doesn't benefit anyone if you are feeling undervalued/underpaid at a job. Work performance will take a hit, team dynamic will slowly shift, you will wake up every morning dreading to go to work.

However, I do think there is a need to resist the urge to treat negotiation like a game. Sure you may have gotten the best offer possible for your skills/experience, but how much do you need to be satisfied and do your best work? If you get hired having massively oversold yourself and the value you bring to the team, are you sure that would be a good start for your new job?

I recently negotiated a 7.4% increase on my base pay for a new job. I could have easily negotiated a 16% increase but I didn't. I want both parties to start the relationship happy. If either side feels like "did I just get cheated out of X?", that is a loss for me. Sure, any relationship may go bad, but why start a relationship if it's not going to be sweet to begin with?

afterburner• 13 years ago

Well, your employer is definitely treating it like a game.

roguecoder3• 13 years ago

It's called "capitalism". By accepting lower-than-possible wages you are merely distorting the market and boosting corporate profits.

The only thing being negotiated is how much of the surplus you get and how much they get. They won't hire you if you aren't going to be worth significantly more to them than they are paying you (thanks to sticky costs).

daniel-cussen• 13 years ago

> Leave something on the table

This is super important. In business, everyone is trying to make money, and if you don't help others achieve that goal, you are a dysfunctional businessperson. And generally, leaving some value on the table translates to better relationships with people—a natural consequence of giving people what they want. An employer becomes a boss when he or she can't get you to pull your weight.

You need to deliver.

jtbigwoo2• 13 years ago

One more thing from someone who survived a couple startup bubbles: Don't value shares as more than a dollar or two unless the company is the equivalent of Microsoft in the 1990's. It's easy to talk yourself into a "small" valuation of $10 or $20/share when the shares are much more likely to be worth $0.

csbowe• 13 years ago

There is really no way of knowing how much those options are worth without knowing the size of the pool and valuation of the company, anyhow. I treat these as monopoly money unless I actually know what percent of the company I'm being given. Lots of things, namely reverse splits, before an exit can greatly affect the value of those shares!

StockOptionCnsl8• 13 years ago

Right! This falls under "Run the Numbers" in the Upstart Blog Post. It is not possible to compare an offer of equity without the info you described and some thoughtful attention to how YOU value that equity.

aaronbrethorst• 13 years ago

    I treat these as monopoly money unless
    I actually know what percent of the
    company I'm being given.

Knowing your percentage doesn't make it any less monopoly money. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5771831

MakeUsersWant• 13 years ago

Some companies fire people right before the shares vest. Then they really are worth $0.

conroe64• 13 years ago

Here is a quick tip, especially for those non confrontational types. When the company makes an offer, just say "Hmm.." and pause for a bit. If the person offering the job is insecure in what they are proposing, they may think you are about to decline and this may provoke them into upping the offer.

If they don't up the offer, it's easy to just say yes after whatever they say next. So, you aren't really risking anything.

roguecoder3• 13 years ago

I bought a car this way once. It was the last day of the selling season and the dealership was really, really close to meeting some goal. Every time I'd break eye contact and look thoughtful they'd lower the price.

I have never felt so powerful in my life :)

ams61103• 13 years ago

That's just what they wanted you to think :)

GavinB2• 13 years ago

The "Pre-Reqs" piece is not right. You really don't need to have another job offer or a current job to negotiate. A while ago I wrote up this script for how to negotiate a job offer with no leverage at all when you intend to accept it no matter what: http://bit.ly/1185CGm

Most job offers come with leeway for negotiation, regardless of your situation. All you really have to do is ask.

gangst2• 13 years ago

In your script, you have:

> You: This is a really great offer because [a sentence or two about why you want to work for them.]. But I was really looking for a little higher compensation.

> Then, this is the most important part: they need to speak next. You have to be silent until they respond. They will give you one of three responses:

At which point you list the three responses. But the most common (in my experience) response is missing: "Okay, what were you thinking for salary?".

GavinB2• 13 years ago

I'd say name a number or range 15-25% above the offer. Or even just "I was hoping for 15-20% more." Thanks, I'll add this.

The point is just to ask for what you want. Often people will give it to you just for asking. It took me a long time to figure this out!

amirmc• 13 years ago

Most job offers come with leeway for negotiation, regardless of your situation. All you really have to do is ask.

Absolutely. People who don't ask (esp by default) end up losing out. [1]

[1] http://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/hvv2m/i_wor...

run4yourlives4• 13 years ago

>You really don't need to have another job offer or a current job to negotiate.

No, but if I know that you don't have another option, I'm not going to be as willing to give up more.

A known secondary option puts pressure (sometimes, tremendous) on your negotiating partner. The absence of such an option does not. That's what the article is saying.

kelnos• 13 years ago

> No, but if I know that you don't have another option, I'm not going to be as willing to give up more.

That doesn't really make sense. The candidate has at least this much in their favor:

1. A recruiter has had probably 2-3 phone calls with them, a technical person (or two) has done a phone screen, and they've taken up the time of, say, 4-6 people for in-person interviews. The company has already spent a not-insignificant amount of time (aka money) evaluating this person, and losing them over a (reasonable) salary increase would be foolish.

2. Having evaluated the candidate, the company has decided they want this person to work for them. Assuming the candidate is great for the position, but the only sticking point is salary, why would the company go back to square 1 to save a little money? Hiring is hard.

Available comp for a particular position is usually a range, and the initial offer will rarely (if ever) quote the top of that range. If the budget is available, and the candidate is good, whether or not they have a competing offer isn't relevant, unless you know that they'll be forced to take your offer even if you don't budge (which in tech, at least, is pretty rare, I'd think).

lawnchair_larry6• 13 years ago

Another, less obvious benefit of having another option: it makes them get their ass in gear. So many companies feel like they have an urgent need to hire, but start taking forever to get back to you throughout the process, whether it's scheduling interviews or drafting an offer letter.

When you get the chance to say "I do have one other offer that is expecting a response by $date, but I am really interested in this position, so I wanted to see if it was a good fit before committing to the other. Do you think that is enough time for us to meet?"

Suddenly, mountains start moving.

jcomis• 13 years ago

What if they put the initial number on you? As in, they ask what you are expecting?

EvanKelly• 13 years ago

When this happened to me, I used legitimate data that was in my favor. I was graduating college and used the published salaries of graduates from my department as published by my department.

You can find numbers from glassdoor or look at what government salaries are for your job type in that location.

Just know that if you provide an acceptable range, they will lock in on the bottom of the range.

ams61103• 13 years ago

I've had reasonable success answering this question by saying something along the lines of "I'd have to consider the full offer, salary, benefits, etc."

If pressed, have a number ready, that's somewhat higher than what you think is realistic. Unless you are so far out of the ballpark that you look ridiculous, a high initial salary demand is not going to knock you out of consideration if you're an otherwise good candidate.

eru2• 13 years ago

Actually, you always want to provide your own numbers first. That's what they call `controlling the document' in the legal profession, and `anchoring' in Psychology.

DanielRibeiro• 13 years ago

As Mark Suster's mom used to tell him[1]:

You don’t ask, you don’t get.

[1] http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2013/05/15/the-one-word-t...

gangst2• 13 years ago

Everything said in the post is easy to conclude if you learn a little bit about negotiation and understand some more niche things like how to valuate shares of a company.

halacsy2• 13 years ago

i think article is just wrong as it is. Maybe because I'm on the other side hiring engineers. But we don't negotiate salaries. Two factors: what makes you happy/enough (do not think about your salary but about your challenges) and what can we expect from you. I don't care how much money you would make at an other company, because you want to join our company. The first part is very personal. People having mortgage and two kids just overvalue themselves. Immigrants in US (and I guess everywhere) just don't need as much money as they don't see the neighbour's grass.

mc-lovin• 13 years ago

Most companies are willing to negotiate, especially when you have a counter-offer. So in general, it is good advice. Most companies do not have the attitude of "I don't care how much money you would make at an other company, because you want to join our company" because they know that most people value some combination of enjoying their work, and how much they get paid, not just one or the other.

>The first part is very personal. People having mortgage and two kids just overvalue themselves. Immigrants in US (and I guess everywhere) just don't need as much money as they don't see the neighbour's grass. Can you explain what you are saying here? Are you saying that only immigrants are willing to take the offers you make, or that you make higher offers to people who overvalue themselves?

halacsy2• 13 years ago

sorry for the noise. I was wrong. I can't make the case.

vidarh2• 13 years ago

I've never come across an offer that couldn't be negotiated, and I never would take the first offer. That includes offers from companies that "don't negotiate".

I'd walk rather than accepting an offer that truly can't be negotiated, because if the company is so inflexible that they can't even yield a tiny little bit, then that's a huge red flag to me.

pnathan• 13 years ago

> But we don't negotiate salaries. Two factors: what makes you happy/enough (do not think about your salary but about your challenges) and what can we expect from you. I don't care how much money you would make at an other company, because you want to join our company.

Ahahaha, oh brother.

You need to care about how much I'd make at another company, because if you dramatically underpay me, I'm walking. I'm ok with fuzzy variance - a few K/yr isn't making or breaking me. But if you short me and give me <90% market average, I'm job hunting. I don't care about how much I like the job - you simply are not valuing me as much as other companies do, and that's unacceptable in my eyes.

Unwillingness to negotiate is a red flag: it signals you can't work with me, are inflexible, and are not interested in accommodating me if something comes up.

So no. Negotiate with me and offer at least 90% of market value. Or I will walk - either I'll join and quit as soon as I get another job, or I'll keep searching. Neither are good outcomes for you.

lumens3• 13 years ago

There is definitely good advice here, but a word of caution: Don't miss the forest for the trees.

I've spent a lot of time helping people negotiate job offers. The predominant theme is that offers will vary a bit, and some negotiation may be necessary, but the couple thousand dollars on the table during the discussion is virtually meaningless.

For most of the software devs reading this article, we're talking about a couple of percent of your overall compensation -- an amount that, given the demand of developers in the market today, will end up being taken into account during your first performance review anyway. If you’re good, your employer will want to keep you around and compensate you accordingly.

During negotiations your main priority should be getting the job that’s the best fit. If it really is the best fit, the company will be presenting you a fair offer. It may not be on the top end of normal, but optimizing for price is bad practice when negotiating salary (much like VC term sheets).

Truly enjoying your time at work and being fully engaged and happy with your job is worth tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I’m not suggesting that you accept below market offers. Instead, I’m trying to illustrate that how much you will enjoy each hour of the day is part of the offer, though it’s not written on the document a prospective employer presents you.

Full disclosure: I’m the founder of Mighty Spring (https://www.mightyspring.com) and our aim is to help people find great fitting opportunities quickly and easily, while making these salary negotiations much simpler in the process.

ISL• 13 years ago

... the couple thousand dollars on the table during the discussion is virtually meaningless.

Perhaps in relative terms? After living on a grad student's salary for years, it's clear that even a thousand dollars can be rather powerful.

lumens3• 13 years ago

Definitely relative -- this is a reference to 'most software devs reading this article'. That being said, once you reach a compensation level that lets you cover your expenses, it's wise to start thinking in these terms, even when the relative percentages rise.

Happier workers tend to perform better, which in turn make meritocratic performance bonuses greater, raising the overall compensation of those workers. Enjoyment of one's job and compensation are tied much more closely than some people realize.

StockOptionCnsl8• 13 years ago

Well said, and I'm very curious about your proposals for making salary negotiations simple. Care to share more? www.stockoptioncounsel.com

pan69• 13 years ago

The article mentions a signing bonus. Does anyone have an idea on how common this this and in what type of situation asking for a signing bonus is appropriate and what some of the common numbers are in these cases?

lumens3• 13 years ago

Signing bonuses are fairly common. It's not a number that is well-arrived at by picking at random. The figure should be based on a calculated value exchange: ie,"I'm not fully vested at my current company, and will be giving up $5k worth of stock options if I leave. I'd like to have a $5k cash signing bonus as part of any new offer I'd take to offset that."

StockOptionCnsl8• 13 years ago

Well said. It's all about finding some "reason" to have a bonus -- something given up to take the position. Like someone said above, it doesn't have to be a great reason. Just a reason.

lawnchair_larry6• 13 years ago

I don't think they are exactly common, but they are not rare. I tend to see them at bigger companies.

Xcelerate• 13 years ago

So, as a new employee out of college, if someone offers 100K, and you reply with "130K and we have a deal" are you going to be 1) laughed at and rejected 2) rejected 3) considered?

I've always been one to just accept whatever -- "Yeah, that sounds good!" -- but I'm consciously preparing myself to avoid this tendency after I finish grad school.

gonehome• 13 years ago

I would state it a bit more eloquently and you'll probably get 110-115k.

The decision to hire is expensive, if they've already made an offer there is usually some room for negotiation either through salary or something else depending on the company (equity, time, travel).

If you were offered 100k and said that you'd love to work at the company, but would be much more comfortable at 120k they'll probably move a little bit just to close you.

Worst case is they'll get back to you and say that they're not able to move from their original offer in which case you can accept without worrying about it.

SatvikBeri• 13 years ago

You will probably get a bit more. The worst case is pretty much that they respond "take it or leave it". You will almost never get rejected for negotiating-the company has invested a lot in getting to the point where they made the offer, and would really like to close.

(Of course, saying "130k and we have a deal" is a pretty terrible way to negotiate. See patio11's blog at kalzumeus.com or Ramit Sethi's book for a substantially better approach to negotiating compensation.)

vidarh2• 13 years ago

You will almost certainly be considered. I've negotiated my offers up anything from 20% to 50%, which means usually my first counter-offer was higher than that.

I'd never just say yes.

By the time someone has made the decision to make you an offer, they have invested time in you, and will be psychologically invested in their decision - nobody likes "losing out", and so they will look for reasons to meet you. As long as your counter-offer is not ridiculous (and tacking on 30% is not), they will negotiate.

Just don't across as making hard demands, and give reasons even if they're total nonsense. People yield more easily if you give them an excuse to.

The irony is that people also tend to feel they made a better deal if they have to fight for it, even if they end up giving a lot.

StockOptionCnsl8• 13 years ago

Well said.

bengrunfeld3• 13 years ago

My method is to do a full analysis of their company, and then make a very nicely formatted doc listing everything that I thought was bad, and a full explanation of how I would improve it if I were hired there.

Essentially, by using this technique, you've created a job for yourself, and given yourself value before you've even started there.

Then, when it comes to salary negotiation, you choose the highest available figure of their range and say with enormous balls that you're worth it because of all the things you can do for them - re your doc.

Works a charm for me every time.

rubberband• 13 years ago

I think this is an interesting idea, but wouldn't it come off a bit preachy? Like "I haven't even worked for your company one day and I already know a better strategic direction to take it. Your management is useless. Hire me."

Maybe I don't have a good enough imagination on what to analyze, though.

bengrunfeld3• 13 years ago

Since I am in marketing and web development, I go through all of their online assets and their front-end code/design.

So far, this technique has gotten me 3 good paying jobs, because I'm not trying to please them in the interview, I'm trying to show them how I can help them become a more successful company. Plus you win the high ground. You just have to do it in a constructive and respectful way.

StockOptionCnsl8• 13 years ago

This seems very sassy. But if you can pull it off ...

bengrunfeld3• 13 years ago

You have to do it respectfully, but why hire someone who can't prove their worth. And it would have been funnier if you'd written "SaaSy" ;)

StockOptionCnsl8• 13 years ago

This is very helpful. I've been impressed with my Stock Option Counsel clients' thoughtfulness in the "Run the Numbers" step. This is not easy with private company equity offers, but there is a right answer for each person if they put some thought into it.

pmorici• 13 years ago

Salary negotiation really dampens my enthusiasm for potential employers. Maybe it's just the game and I'm being unreasonable but getting a low ball offer makes me question what kind of place a company would be to work at.

dsr_• 13 years ago

So... is that photo of Tom Cruise licensed properly?

ams61103• 13 years ago

One thing to keep in mind, specifically about positions in academic institutions, but perhaps others: you have to get what you can get on your way in. Once hired, you will not get more than cost-of-living raises (if that) with perhaps a percent or two leeway for performance. The only way to get a real raise in these organizations is to get promoted to a new position, which is why they are constantly doing internal reorgs and creating new titles and reporting lines for the same bunch of people.

hippich• 13 years ago

on contraire, i would recommend always negotiate price you want and not settle if "you are going to work for this company anyway". Reason is simple - every year what you earn gives you 3% less purchasing power on average. If you are not getting at least the same increase in income - you are losing. Unfortunately, not all companies consider annual salary increases and ones which do - do it on their own discretion.

So you have to have something in back pocket when it is time to leave this job and look for new opportunity and use you current wage as a leverage to get more. As such, you should make sure you are compensated fairly. It is just like bonus vs. early salary increase. Higher base salary means higher base salary for the next job (and for current one higher bonus, higher annual increase, etc). Do not settle for bonuses/stocks/"unlimited" vacation and any other similar tricks.

How to Negotiate a Job Offer

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