Apple: Macbook Air isn't suitable for simultaneous use of Xcode and external display

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14238829/MacBook-Air-Decision

by TimH • 17 years ago

26 33 17 years ago

ojbyrne2• 17 years ago

Interesting. I bought a (march'09 macmini) to run dual monitors both at 1920x1200. So far it's doing the job quite well. Xcode included. Though I had to upgrade (max out) the ram.

mattmaroon2• 17 years ago

Do they now have two monitor ports of some sort? My mini had only one DVI.

whacked_new• 17 years ago

Yes: Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI

http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html

wmf• 17 years ago

I didn't bother reading all the legalese, but I have a feeling the external monitor has nothing to do with it.

TimH4• 17 years ago

I agree, but it's what Apple used as it's legal defense.

nailer• 17 years ago

Well the cause of the issue is poor design on Apple's behalf, but:

External monitor -> greater use of video memory -> greater heat -> kernel_task pegging the CPU. See the discussions above.

timdorr• 17 years ago

Is it possible to a transcript from the court proceedings? I'm not familiar with NZ law at all. I'm mainly curious to see how Apple argued that plugging in an external monitor into an external monitor port and running an Apple-built program on an Apple-built computer could be argued as "inappropriate use". That's some crack lawyering!

nikz• 17 years ago

It's the "Disputes Tribunal". So it's not a proper "Court" per se - you present your case to a mediator, in person.

http://www.justice.govt.nz/disputes/about/default.asp for more information.

ubernostrum2• 17 years ago

So, reading the order it seems that what happened was:

1. Guy is shopping for a computer for dev use.

2. Guy talks to sales consultant, explaining what he needs to do, and is told "get a MacBook Air".

3. Guy discovers MacBook Air isn't capable of handling the workload he's putting on it, it overheats and shuts down CPU cores.

4. Guy files dispute.

5. Apple says "yeah, the the MacBook Air can't handle this type of load".

6. Dispute judge says sales consultant shouldn't have recommended the MacBook Air, then.

7. Dispute judge says guy can return MacBook Air for a full refund since he was misled into believing it could handle the work he needed to do.

Moral of the story: an ultra-thin laptop which explicitly trades off performance for size probably isn't the ideal machine for compiling lots of stuff while also powering a monitor the size of a breakfast table, and salespeople who tell you it is shouldn't be trusted.

TimH4• 17 years ago

Nope, not the ideal machine. a $10k Mac Pro would be much better. I was given the impression it would be adequate though, and I picked it for it's portability.

If it's not adequate for the tasks it shouldn't be promoted as such. The web page for the Macbook Air says it comes with Xcode, and runs a large external display. Perhaps I should have known better, but I tried to do my research. ;-)

rbanffy2• 17 years ago

"isn't capable of handling the workload"

I don't know what Xcode is doing, but I am certain even a very dedicated and proactive IDE spends most of the time waiting for keystrokes. There is _no_ reason why Xcode could cause this behaviour.

BTW, I am very happy with my Atom-based netbook for developing stuff with Django. There was a time when developers needed a lot of power, but those days are long gone and today it's the guys who do video editing/encoding, manipulate huge datasets and play games that need the big computers.

PStamatiou• 17 years ago

I had a first gen MBA for 9 months. Exact same kernel task issue - it was always hooked up to my 24-inch. Ended up going out of my way doing some undervolting to keep one of the cores from shutting down. It's not like it was actually overheating when it would shutdown one of the cores before my little hack. It was maintaining regular temperatures, even tested with a fan on it on a raised platform.

Anywho, 9 months was enough for me to realize I needed more juice and I've since graduated and hack from home full-time so I don't really need mobility. My new MBP+ Intel SSD is working just fine.

As for the MacBook Air.. I fell asleep with it one night and woke up to a cracked screen. After I got that fixed I took it to Apple for another issue and they returned it to me with a german keyboard. Huge mess up on their part, got it on the consumerist and such. They gave me a new one which I sold. /rant

enneff• 17 years ago

My boss had serious problems with his MacBook Air using Firefox on JavaScript-heavy web sites all day. They refuse to fix it / replace it under AppleCare saying that using a web browser is inappropriate use! Crazy.

Obviously they can't afford to just come clean and admit the issues.

kragen3• 17 years ago

Is there a version of whatever this is that isn't on scribd?

icey• 17 years ago

There's a download button.

kragen3• 17 years ago

It doesn't work.

By "doesn't work" I mean that after turning on JavaScript for scribd.com, it tries to pop up a menu over the top of the Flash embed. But popping up anything on top of embedded Flash doesn't work in my browser (FF3 with Gnash on Linux), so I use AdBlock to block the embedded Flash. Then the download menu offers me a "PDF" option. Clicking on that ought to give me a file download; instead, it pops up a box prompting me to sign up for an account with Scribd.

In short, Scribd is a privacy-invading pain in the ass. So, is there a copy of the document that isn't on Scribd?

TimH4• 17 years ago

Yes, there's a version of it in your inbox. Enjoy.

kragen3• 17 years ago

Thank you! That was amusing and interesting. I'm amazed that Apple continues to have such excellent user experiences despite such abysmal quality problems.

cpr• 17 years ago

To understand the problem fully, you have to make a serious distinction between first and second generation Airs.

I have both, and the first generation becomes completely unuseable rather quickly, external display or not, when you push it even mildly. (Youtube (non-HD) alone will do it.)

The second generation is much more resistant, but if the room gets hot, with my 24" external monitor connected, I do see the kernel_task slowdown at times. (E.g., when a Time Machine backup kicks in, with 10-12 apps going, mostly in the background, and I'm doing something mildly computation-intensive in the foreground.)

jrockway• 17 years ago

Amusing. My eeepc can handle a 24" display and a maxed-out CPU load without any problems. All for about $2000 less than the MBA.

Apple: Macbook Air isn't suitable for simultaneous use of Xcode and external display

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