How Parents Around the World Describe Their Children, in Charts

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/04/how-parents-around-the-world-describe-their-children-in-charts/274955/

by colinismyname • 13 years ago

64 67 13 years ago

theatlantic.com

switch33• 13 years ago

Somehow I find that "easy" attitude to mean something different. lol.

Especially since there is not really any context to it. Also kind of strange how the only ones who are rebellious are US?

StavrosK• 13 years ago

I don't know, it seems pretty clear to me that it means "easy to manage/low-maintenance".

We can't tell if the only ones who are rebellious are US, from the article. What we can tell is that US parents consider their children rebellious.

dmlorenzetti• 13 years ago

An interesting read is "Our Babies, Ourselves: How Biology and Culture Shape the Way We Parent" by Meredith Small.

It touches on a lot of the ideas in this article, in much greater depth, and looking across a wider range of cultures and continents.

In short, if you find this article interesting, I would highly recommend the book.

afterburner3• 13 years ago

So, considering parent bias, does this basically show what each cultures' parents value in their kids, or perhaps in people in general?

startupfounder• 13 years ago

Upon first review it was quite interesting to compare how countries perceive themselves, but when trying to compare countries to each other I realized that the x-axis and y-axis are different for each country.

For example the first quote says "A fascinating new study reveals that Americans are more likely to call their children 'intelligent'", but in fact a higher percentage of parents in Australia say their children are more intelligent.

Parents in Spain think their kids are really really easy.

thatthatis• 13 years ago

Glad someone else saw this. The conclusions of the article don't seem to follow from the data.

adaml_623• 13 years ago

Australia gets a mention but after that I think it just gets lumped in with Europe. You don't think they got confused with Austria do you?

kijin3• 13 years ago

When I saw the graphs, what I immediately noticed was not how much emphasis parents place on intelligence, but rather how much emphasis they place on conformity. The article talks about both, but it talks more about the former than the latter. But I find the latter a lot more interesting.

Terms like "agreeable", "socially mature", and "well balanced" (versus "attention seeking", presumably a bad thing) can signify that parents place quite a bit of importance on how well their children conform to social norms and expectations. The article mentions bedtime rules, but this can also extend to long-entrenched traditions in "Old World" societies.

On the other hand, the fact that American parents don't use these terms, and instead use terms like "independent" and "rebellious", shows that American culture places a high value on thinking and living outside of the box. The lack of "calm" and "happy" might make life more stressful for parents and children alike, but at the same time, the term "adaptable" implies that Americans expect the world around them to change quickly, and when it does, you gotta change, too. America is newer and changes faster. It's not surprising that Americans value qualities that make people innovative, disruptive, and not bound by any rule that they didn't make by themselves.

As a person who has lived half his life in a society where being "well rounded", conformity, and obedience to authority are considered a child's primary virtues, I must confess that I am rather partial to the "American" style, tradition be damned.

Edit: There also seems to be a relevant difference between Northern/Western Europe and Southern Europe, just as there is a large cultural difference between Northeastern/Western U.S. and the Southeast. So maybe the comparison should be between industrial regions and traditionally agricultural regions, or between relatively secular regions and deeply religions regions, rather than between America and Europe as a whole. Seems obvious in some ways.

RivieraKid• 13 years ago

Interesting, I find that social norms in the US are more rigid and Europe seems to be more laid back. (Two examples that come to mind: nudity and the "base" system in dating.)

kijin3• 13 years ago

Sexual norms are not necessarily representative of a society's overall openness to change. My impression is that America (modulo some parts of the South) makes much more fuss celebrating innovation than most of the rest of the world does, and even if this is not a good reflector of the status quo, it certainly has a long-term impact on how people think.

sultezdukes• 13 years ago

I don't know where you're deriving social norms from conformity. If anything, with Europe being traditionally much more leftist than the U.S. there has been much more conformity of the individual to the state in Europe.

Dewie• 13 years ago

Stereotypically, USA is more socially conservative than Western- and Northern-Europe.

HarryHirsch3• 13 years ago

> As a person who has lived half his life in a society where being "well rounded", conformity, and obedience to authority are considered a child's primary virtues, I must confess that I am quite partial to the American style, tradition be damned.

My observation is that the value placed on conformity is the US is astounding. Just take a look at the undergrad girls on any university campus. They all look so alike; it is almost as if they were wearing uniform, it's staggering. Also: the importance of "rules".

afterburner3• 13 years ago

Teenagers and young adolescents are desperate to fit in everywhere though, I'm not sure I would take that as a sign of the society as a whole. I would want to see how this compares to university outside the US, as well.

kijin3• 13 years ago

Compared to most other parts of the world except Northern Europe, I would say that American campuses teem with diversity. I agree with you that there's not enough diversity, but there's still a lot of it.

Just take a look at the undergrads in a Chinese/Japanese/Korean university. It's as if they belonged to some sort of military organization.

flexie• 13 years ago

As someone who has lived on both continents myself I find that Americans are more conformist and worried about stepping outside cultural norms than Europeans.

trhtrsh5• 13 years ago

I assume you are not referring to Switzerland.

rmk2• 13 years ago

What you see as expressions of freedom and liberty can just as well mean the polar opposite. Calling somebody "rebellious" means they do not fit in a given system (which is bad if you represent the system concerned), while calling somebody "adaptable" means they will fit in no matter how the system changes; they are, in other words, malleable. In that sense, being independent can also mean the opposite of being socially minded, i.e. being egotistic.

Rebellious, adaptable and individual in a commercial sense might mean somebody resisting the mainstream and innovating. On the other hand, from a systemic point of view, it can denote an egotistical and spineless person that doesn't fit in (which is bad).

Whether the strong focus on individuality, adaptability, rebellion and cognitive advancement is positive or negative will ultimately hinge on your overall image of the wider society creating these values.

anigbrowl2• 13 years ago

I'm not sure about your extrapolation here. For example, labeling a child 'rebellious' isn't necessarily praise, it might just as easily express disappointment with conformist expectations. I have to say I never heard the phrase 'oppositional defiance disorder' until I came to the US. In Europe people would just regard such kids as stubborn, but not necessarily assume it was the result of a pathology.

PKop2• 13 years ago

Isn't it more likely that these descriptions are what the parents want to see in their children? As for 'rebellious', I see that as more of a humble-brag. "Oh, he's so rebellious, hehe". My takeaway from the data is these are the qualities that the parents in the respective countries hope their children possess, or perhaps that they've instilled in them...since in any meaningful sense most young children would be fairly similar across cultures, the differences the researchers perceived in the parents' answers must have been biases from the parents themselves.

tensor• 13 years ago

My anecdotal observation is that the reality in US/Can is opposite of the desire. While parents say they value thinking, independence, and rebelliousness, they actually teach a lot of anti-intellectualism and conformity.

Genuine "outside the norm" behaviour is frowned upon and "thinking outside the box" and "rebelliousness" often means denying scientific position on well studied problems.

youngerdryas4• 13 years ago

Maybe this explains a strange situation. Europe is bigger than the US, is well educated, free and prosperous. You would think that more technological innovation would come from Europe, or at least it would be on par, but that is far from the case. There have been several articles on this lately but none seem to have an answer.

analog4• 13 years ago

Genuinely curious, how do you measure innovation?

I had a quick google for some data and the best measure I could find was this[1], which places the US on a similar level to the European/Scandinavian countries with strong economies.

[1] http://www.globalinnovationindex.org/gii/main/fullreport/fil...

trhtrsh5• 13 years ago

US has a 10x factor of industrial efficiency due it's size as as unified nation.

Your cell phone was basically invented in Finland. So was Linux. The English cracked Enigma.

zevyoura• 13 years ago

Another similar and interesting set of data to look at is baby naming trends. Freakonomics Radio's most recent episode covers the subject with some depth: http://www.freakonomics.com/2013/04/08/how-much-does-your-na...

radicalbyte• 13 years ago

From what I remember from my childhood in the UK, I'd say that Britain is very close to America. Everyone focussed on "intellect" there, and my friends there broadly use the American strategies (hyper + TV).

I've noticed the difference in The Netherlands. My wife was just this afternoon planning the bedtime rooster for our first child (due in September!). I put it down to her Dutch tick for planning/organization.

What is true is that the maternity/paternity system here is awesome: it's like society has accepted that yes, people do have kids. And, if we all want to keep working (and share the job of raising the nippers), then we need to make some pragmatic decisions. Like be flexible with work time, and have subsidised childcare.

staticfish2• 13 years ago

After living in both countries my whole life, as a Brit, I can honestly say that Britain is not very close to America at all. Maybe on the surface, the popular culture (mostly because of Hollywood & TV) and the language are similar, but that's about where the main similarities end, and the subtitles begin.

What George Bernard Shaw said was true. England and America are two countries separated by a common language.

ims• 13 years ago

I'd be very interested to hear you expand on this.

xyproto• 13 years ago

To work longer hours is NOT the same as being more industrious, as suggested by the article.

ScottWhigham• 13 years ago

Fascinating narrative but was this a true "research study" in which hundreds or thousands of families were given the same questions? I can't find it in the study text, which reads more like a book chapter than a study. I can't find it in the article, nor do I see it in the Slate interview.

Can anyone else find the actual text that says, "We surveyed this many families and asked them these specific questions"?

e2e8• 13 years ago

It reads like a book chapter because it is a book chapter:

"Themes and Variations: Parental Ethnotheories in Western Cultures ... to appear in: Rubin, K. (Ed.), Parental beliefs, parenting, and child development in cross-cultural perspective. New York: Psychology Press."

http://brown.edu/Departments/Human_Development_Center/Roundt...

sax• 13 years ago

Is there a relationship between the colors on the graphs? Every graph has different value scale. Hard to compare values between graphs, which is the whole point of the article.

adnam• 13 years ago

Not a single mention of "whinging sods", which makes me suspect this study is inaccurate.

davewasmer• 13 years ago

A fantastic example of horrible information visualization. Those bar charts are almost useless. The colors don't seem to correspond to anything, the ranking is apparently random, and the x-axis scale varies wildly, making cross-country comparisons an exercise in mental arithmetic.

Bill_Dimm• 13 years ago

I came here to say exactly that. They make a point of using the same colors in each chart (mostly), giving the illusion of some correspondence, but the colors mean something different for each chart. For example, "Difficult" and "Agreeable" are the same color in the first two charts.

maxerickson• 13 years ago

The language in the Atlantic blag is out of control. The free language study used 60 families from each region, so maybe 120 descriptions.

So the difference between 5% and 10% is 5 or 6 or 7 of the participants, not "far more likely" and such.

A reasonable conclusion from the study is that people don't particularly use common descriptions for their children.

SoftwareMaven4• 13 years ago

Putting your kids on a schedule is probably the best thing you can do as a parent to ensure your sanity and to keep your kids happy. Kids really do like repetitive behavior, and a good schedule is one of those[1].

There are few things that help you cope with those really challenging parenting days like knowing your kids are going to be in bed at 8pm, with 30 minutes of relaxing parent/child time before that. Knowing you get a break is immensely empowering.

I cringe for the kids when I see them walking around the grocery store with their parents at 11pm. It doesn't surprise me that so many kids are unable to concentrate[2] when they are sleep deprived, overly stimulated, and jacked up on sugar (Lucky Charms is 40% sugar. Baby formula has more sugar than Coke.).

All that said, my kids are smart. ;) But what really excites me about my kids is watching them find and explore their interests. The word I would use to describe them is "unique".

1. Sorry, no academic research to back it up. Lots of anecdotal experience from my own kids and those of others who have come to my wife and I for advice. Also, just look at how many times a kid can watch the same movie over and over again. :)

2. My wife works as a pediatric nurse. I have no doubt there are many kids (and adults for that matter) who are wired very differently and need help to fit into society's notion of how a kid should behave. I also think that we are doing massive damage to kids by all the sugar we feed them, especially in liquid form, whether it's milkshake formula or Mountain Dew, and that damage is showing up as a slew of problems, from obesity and Type II diabetes to cognitive issues. However, those are going to be exceedingly difficult to prove, and powerful interests (from the USDA to food producers) will do everything they can to distract people from proving it.

dllthomas• 13 years ago

> Baby formula has more sugar than Coke.

Based on the nutrition info I found with a couple minutes googling, this seems incorrect.

http://productnutrition.thecoca-colacompany.com/products/coc...

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/baby-foods/440/2

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/baby-foods/452/2

The second one there comes close, but they all seem to be in the same basic range as human breast milk:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_breast_milk#Composition

pyre• 13 years ago

It's kind of funny that there is the whole formula-vs-breast-milk debate. Especially since there are so many people that have this odd notion that formula is safer than breast milk (some even thinking that breast milk is detrimental to a child's health -- e.g. "Your child will die or have defects if you feed it breast milk").

The truth is that formula is useful as a substitute for breast milk, but it's not a complete substitute. We should probably be leaning towards breast milk unless there is a reason not to.

We should probably rid ourselves of notions like:

* Formula is obviously better than breast milk because... science!

* Feeding your baby formula is a sign of wealth (much like wet-nurses in the past) because only poor people that can't afford formula breast-feed (i.e. breast milk is 'free' therefore obviously isn't as good).

* Breast-feeding is harmful to children because seeing a breast will scar them for life.

rayiner• 13 years ago

> Baby formula has more sugar than Coke.

Of course it does--milk has a lot of sugar in it. Breastmilk is about 7.1 g/100ml (all lactose), and good infant formula is about the same. Coke is 10.2 g/100 ml (fructose and sucrose). Some infant formulas do have added sucrose.

SoftwareMaven4• 13 years ago

The problem is the types of sugars (and I should have been more specific about that wrt formula). Infant formulas are loaded with fructose, through HFCS, corn syrup, corn syrup solids, and table sugar[1]. As you point out, those sugars do not exist in breast milk. Give the very different metabolic path fructose takes, and the load it places on the liver, combined with the trend towards obese six month olds, I would say those formulas aren't doing good things to our kids.

My kids are way past breast feeding/formula stage, but if they weren't, I would certainly be watching very closely what ingredients were in the formula if my wife chose not to or couldn't breast feed. I'm sure there are good formulas if you dig a little.

1. http://wordsofwilliams.com/what-ingredients-are-in-infant-fo... I couldn't find an ingredients list on Similac's website.

btipling• 13 years ago

The study:

http://brown.edu/Departments/Human_Development_Center/Roundt...

I don't see anything about controlling for variables, experiment design, confidence intervals etc. This is an ethnographic study, not a random survey. Don't treat it like one.

colmvp• 13 years ago

Strange that they didn't conduct any studies in parts of Asia, what with the cultural differences between East and West.

tnuc• 13 years ago

Happy doesn't even rate on the American graph.

A lot of American parents I meet go on and on about how smart and fantastic their children are. They even have bumper stickers announcing that their offspring are honor students at some school. I never hear about how they are well adjusted and happy.

drblast• 13 years ago

I always wonder how much of the attitude measured among modern parents in the U.S. is due to the number of people who have an only child, and do so later in life.

When you have more than one child, I think you're more realistic about their personalities and capabilities, because you can compare them. When you have just one, everything they do is extraordinary. When you have more, you see them more as a bunch of morons who get things right occasionally through random chance.

Not to mention, since we in the U.S. don't typically have large broods, most people have very little experience with children at all and are shocked at what they are capable of, because it doesn't really fit with the preconceived notion of what a "child" is.

elliott34• 13 years ago

am I the only one bothered that these charts arn't sorted...

trhtrsh5• 13 years ago

n = 10 per country.

"Any other armchair ethnographers care to weigh in?"

Indeed.

How Parents Around the World Describe Their Children, in Charts

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