Uber driver charged with raping woman in D.C.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/uber-driver-charged-with-raping-woman-in-dc/2013/03/14/2bbf4c8e-8cb0-11e2-9838-d62f083ba93f_story.html

by rexreed • 13 years ago

33 69 13 years ago

washingtonpost.com

nsxwolf• 13 years ago

Yikes. Anyone know how a startup protects themselves from liability in this kind of situation?

freehunter• 13 years ago

Attorneys. No matter what, make sure you have an attorney on retainer. People sue and get sued, and businesses have much more exposure to a lot more and varied types of people. If you're an even moderate business success, you'll be getting calls from lawyers or you'll be getting someone who tries to skirt your policy based on a loophole in your TOS/AUP/etc. Lawyer up. If you don't have the money for a lawyer to review your business with you, you're putting yourself and your customers at a risk that many would deem unacceptable.

11235813212• 13 years ago

You protect yourself by having proactive policies (e.g. Über will do well for themselves to show the extent of their background checks and driver training), business insurance and legal representation.

theorique• 13 years ago

Lawyer up, big time.

warfangle5• 13 years ago

Given the driver was not employed by Uber, but employed by a limo company that uses Uber's technology...

bdcravens2• 13 years ago

"Craigslist rapists" aren't employees of Craigslist either, yet there's still the negative stigma.

bdcravens2• 13 years ago

It seems there's an attitude that startups that are "disrupting" don't play by the same rules as "traditional" businesses. (See the many discussions re Uber and AirBnB as they relate to local regulations) Business can be a very scary place, with risk - even when it has nothing to do with your company, PR association can be a killer. Situations like this are careful reminders that it takes more than a MacBook Air, 5 Hour Energy, and six weeks at an incubator desk to launch a successful business.

andrewguenther3• 13 years ago

Yes, lawyer up, but I think many of these comments are missing the true lesson here.

You need to take the proper precautions. Uber's screening of their drivers is laughable. Regulations don't exist solely to make your life miserable, and hopefully this incident, true or not, gives them the shock they need to understand their problem. While I appreciate what Uber's service is trying to accomplish, sacrificing safety is not the kind of "disruption" this industry needs.

sandbochs• 13 years ago

Hope they release the results of the DNA matching. Innocent until proven guilty.

snprbob862• 13 years ago

I don't really appreciate the fact that the suspect is named publicly, but the victim is not. It should be either neither, or both, preferably the former. Every time I see an article about rape, there are hints of bias to full on convictions in the court of public opinion. Innocent until proven guilty!

Uber probably has GPS data for the Driver's phone. Did he linger at the destination long enough for a rape to occur? Or did he immediately begin traveling towards his next fare?

There's a character witness for the driver, but what about for the woman? After all, she was just kicked out of a bar...

What is the status of her injury?

There's just not enough information here for this to justify as news quite yet.

rhdoenges5• 13 years ago

> After all, she was just kicked out of a bar...

What difference does this make?

warfangle5• 13 years ago

None at all, unless you make a habit of victim blaming.

bbwharris• 13 years ago

I'm with you on this. Its almost as if the op is blaming the victim for allowing this to happen.

Just think how you would feel if this was your mother, sister, or daughter. You would not have the same attitude. Women never deserve this, ever. It scars them for life.

tomp3• 13 years ago

It's the word of one person against the word of another. If it were two men and you had to choose whom to believe, you would probably find it more likely that the lier is the one that otherwise causes more problems, and e.g. gets kicked out of bars.

anankastic• 13 years ago

He's pointing out that the only "evidence" so far against the driver is not coming from the most reliable source - in this case, a woman so intoxicated that she was kicked out of a bar.

If you get high enough you get symptoms of paranoia. Maybe the fact that he talked to her a little bit in the cab scared her, and when she got raped she didn't have a good enough look at the perpetrator and assumed that it was the cab driver.

Innocent until proven guilty. It's unfortunate that his name is being plastered over the news like this.

stcredzero2• 13 years ago

> It should be either neither, or both, preferably the former

Entirely agree. Doesn't it contradict the notion of innocent until proved guilty to subject the suspect to a media circus? It's like getting doxxed just because a bunch of bloggers see a chance to get hits.

ry0ohki• 13 years ago

I started to agree with you in terms of "fair is fair", but on the other hand rape is severely undereported partly because of the embarrassment, if you know you'll be publicly named I can't imagine that will increase the number of reports.

rhizome• 13 years ago

Not to draw any conclusions, but hiding the name has the effect of reinforcing that there's something to be embarrassed about.

aetherson2• 13 years ago

I don't support naming victims of any crimes, certainly including rape (unless the victims consent or their identity is unavoidably public).

That said, I'd like to see some numbers about reporting of stranger-rape. I know that acquaintance-rape is heavily underreported, and as a very large amount of rape is acquaintance-rape, that means that rape is underreported. I'm ignorant about the reporting rate of stranger-rape.

speeder2• 13 years ago

Rape accusations, true or not, always end destroying the accused, specially because there are low penalties for false accusations, and the media is very fast in plastering the person name and photo everywhere.

Also, being a driver is kinda dangerous regarding that, I have some driver friends, and they all have the same rule: They don't pick up lone women, period, it might be raining, hurricane, dust storm, middle of the night, day, whatever, if she is a woman, and alone, they don't pick up them, ever.

It is because here in Brazil at least, is a very common scam to a women accuse a driver (be him professional, like a cabbie or Uber-like driver, or a volunteer that wants to help a hitchhiker) of rape, or make threats to accuse him unless he pays her something.

On this case in particular, I think the best is wait for what a judge and evidence has to say.

Aloisius3• 13 years ago

Why don't your driver friends just put a small camera in the cab? In the US this is fairly common in cabs, though not at all in towncars. It prevents a whole host of potential problems.

rhdoenges5• 13 years ago

Seems the incident may have been recorded:

> Messages related to the incident on neighborhood email groups state that the incident was caught on security cameras mounted to the victim's home.

source: http://dcist.com/2013/03/uber_driver_charged_with_sexual_ass...

rhdoenges5• 13 years ago

It says she paid her fare. What other motive could she have had to make this accusation?

Unfortunately, there is little evidence to go on at this point aside from her testimony, so much of this discussion is mere speculation.

Aloisius3• 13 years ago

It is an uber. The fare is automatically paid with or without her.

jiggy2011• 13 years ago

Just straightforward blackmail and extortion perhaps?

speeder2• 13 years ago

Here in Brazil this is not to avoid fare, fare is chump change, it is to extort, or "repent". One case that I know, the woman had consensual sex with the driver, and got pregnant, her boyfriend dumped her, and then she accused the driver of rape. Happily for the driver she was a bad liar and contradicted herself many times, so the cops dropped the case.

gdilla• 13 years ago

they could use dashboard cams a-la-russia to help with this.

xanadohnt• 13 years ago

Why is Über even mentioned? How about some details on the manufacturer of the seat the driver was sitting on, maybe what barber he usues too? Regardless, this is tragic if true, and my heart goes out.

ryanhuff• 13 years ago

Uber is mentioned for the same reason why Craigslist is mentioned when something goes bad with a CL deal. It adds context to the story.

mikeash• 13 years ago

Same reason e.g. American Airlines would be mentioned if something similar happened with one of their pilots.

duaneb2• 13 years ago

Uber doesn't really vet their drivers properly, or at least that's what I found with a little Googling. Uber should take responsibility because this person put trust in their service and got raped. Now, it could be that Uber did vet the guy and he came up clean, but they should make that clear.

lawnchair_larry• 13 years ago

It's relevant. Uber are creating a network of unregulated cabs, and people have been voicing concerns over the consequences of that. It can happen with a regulated cab too, but it's probably a little more sensitive given that there are no regulations at all.

These concerns are not mine, and I'm not taking a position for or against Uber, I'm just pointing this out.

duaneb2• 13 years ago

It's a matter of trust in the brand, not of whether Uber could have prevented it.

rtkwe2• 13 years ago

They still employ specially licensed driver just like cab companies. The regulations they don't have to deal with are things like availability and rate laws iirc.

andrewguenther3• 13 years ago

I think it is actually very important that Uber is mentioned. This comment explains it perfectly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5377167

The driver was an Uber driver, the company supported him as a driver. Any event that occurs while he is doing his work as an Uber driver deserves to have Uber mentioned.

warfangle5• 13 years ago

Did we read the same article? The driver in question worked for Capitol Limo, not Uber. Uber was simply software that Capitol Limo used and got paid through. Capitol Limo should have been mentioned much more than Capitol Limo was. Any event that occurs while he is doing work as a Capitol Limo driver deserves to have Capitol Limo mentioned at least Capitol Limo times Capitol Limo Capitol Limo

nvr219• 13 years ago

Yeah this was probably a planted story by Big Livery

jordo37• 13 years ago

Uber is mentioned because as one of the other commenters mentions licensing processes that existing cab companies use offer real benefit in terms of knowing about your driver population, screening them and controlling them.

The craiglist comparison is much more app than the the American Airlines one - a connection was made via this service with little oversight or regulation - that comes with benefits like higher availability and easier transactions, but it also can be risky.

DanBC• 13 years ago

Uber is mentioned because Washington have said that Uber is an unlicensed taxicab company, although they've changed some rule to make it allowable.

(http://www.npr.org/2012/01/31/146123433/upstart-car-service-...)

cs702• 13 years ago

At least one critic of the company warned exactly about this a long while ago:

"Laws don’t exist merely to frustrate the business ambitions of coastal hipsters: They also exist to protect the more vulnerable members of society. Back home in London (where such statistics are available), 11 women a month are attacked in unlicensed cabs, and unlicensed drivers are responsible for a horrifying 80 percent of all stranger rapes. If Uber doesn't have to follow licensing laws, then neither does any Tom, Dick, or Harry who chooses to paint the word 'TAXI' on the side of his car, and start offering rides via the Internet. A disruptive CEO will shrug (and there's a foreshadowing word) and insist that it’s not his fault that such criminals exist."[1]

It appears this critic was right.

[1] http://pandodaily.com/2012/10/24/travis-shrugged/

Edit: added "It appears," which more accurately conveys my position.

chc• 13 years ago

How does licensing ward off rape? I'm pretty sure I can warn that licensed cap drivers rape people and I'll be vindicated too.

Aloisius3• 13 years ago

You can't just become an uber driver. They are licensed livery drivers registered with each state. I'm not sure it is any less stringent application than becoming a cab driver.

ataggart2• 13 years ago

It's not clear to me how government licensing would prevent an already illegal rape.

Retric• 13 years ago

Tracking, people are far less likely to commit crimes if they need to be identified beforehand.

Background checking, while far from foolproof it's both a deterrent and a preventative measure.

Higher barriers to entry, if it takes significant amounts of effort and money to be able to drive a cab then people are both less likely to risk it and going to try something else to have their 'fun'.

scarmig• 13 years ago

Well, if unlicensed drivers constitute 80% of all stranger rapes (seems high, but let's take it at face value), and fewer than 80% of all drivers are unlicensed (highly likely), it certainly does seem to do something to help prevent it. Maybe easy trace-ability and filtering out of previously convicted criminals plays a part, which isn't too big a stretch.

dmishe• 13 years ago

How is licensing prevents rape?

twelvechairs• 13 years ago

This is very different from the dark days of unlicensed London minicabs. Unlicensed minicab drivers would literally not be traceable - no driver id, no company, no receipt. The car would have license plates but even then how do you track down the driver? Here the fact that she ordered the driver by phone, and had a receipt on her phone, means that she could clearly track down the cab driver. Which is a good thing, and probably the best possible deterrent to this kind of thing happening more often.

[edit] Also its worth noting that the reason people would risk unlicensed cabs in London was that taxi licenses were so strictly controlled that prices were quite ridiculous for many.[edit2] And that the solution to the issue in London was to license the minicabs where trying to shut them down demonstrably failed.

caseysoftware• 13 years ago

According to the article, the (legally, still "alleged") rapist was a licensed limo driver with Capital Limo. With the information we have so far, he was following the law totally with respect to taxi/limo licensing.

stcredzero2• 13 years ago

Such a position is tantamount to saying that information brokers should be responsible for what others do with their information. That would basically moot the 1st amendment. Understandably, the limo/taxi business is somewhat exceptional, since a passenger is so much in the power of the driver. But even here, we now have technology that could moot such laws. (There's no reason why drivers couldn't be required by companies to install cameras, for example.)

rtkwe2• 13 years ago

Except Uber drivers are licensed with their parent companies who provide the cars and services to fill Uber requests. Or that was my impression of their model.

zzleeper• 13 years ago

We had a scandal similar to this in Peru a few months ago: http://www.larepublica.pe/26-06-2012/imagenes-demuestran-que...

"Taxi Satelital" is a taxi company valued for its safety and overall ease of use, that subcontracts each ride to a pool of licensed drivers (like uber).

A young woman accused one of its drivers of drugging and abusing her. Everyone assumed she was right and went all "duke-lacrosse" on the firm, which we assumed will have to go bust soon. The next day, the CEO appeared on TV with a CC video, the phone call audio, GPS records, and even one witness, showing that she was indeed making it up.

After seeing this happen one too many times, I think its prudent if we withhold judgement and let the police do their job. That said, I do believe unlicensed drivers are a huge issue in thefts, kidnappings, and rapes in many parts of the world (London as you quoted, but this is also common knowledge in most of Latin America)

ratpad• 13 years ago

How in the world is this an "Uber" driver... Doesn't he work for a company that's using Uber? Find this a bit of a sensationalized smear on the service to associate him so closely with it.

andrewguenther3• 13 years ago

Uber approved him as a driver, he receives clients through Uber, he receives payments through Uber...

greenyoda• 13 years ago

Despite what the headline on HN says, the article states in the very first sentence that he was not charged with anything, and released:

"District prosecutors on Thursday said they will not charge a limo driver who city police had arrested and accused of raping a 20-year-old customer outside her home in December."

Edit: Looks like the news article used to have that same headline; it's still what the page title says. Apparently, the police got it wrong in their press conference:

"Bill Miller, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office, told The Washington Post that the office was not charging Anouar Habib Trabelsi, even as a top D.C. police commander was holding a news conference outside police headquarters announcing the criminal charge."

Uber driver charged with raping woman in D.C.

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