Chinese clone of StackOverflow. Uses even the same design, built using django.

http://www.cnprog.com/

by scorpion032 • 17 years ago

29 61 17 years ago

cnprog.com

scorpion032• 17 years ago

And yea, <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&... is the translated version</a>

vyrotek• 17 years ago

COME CNProg first, right? Do not forget FAQ Oh!

jwilliams• 17 years ago

Someone asks about stack overflow here: http://66.102.11.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=ht...

sho5• 17 years ago

Who cares? "Steal what you love", right? They obviously couldn't use the English speaking site, and I doubt the real Stack Overflow has any plans to expand into the Chinese market.

I wouldn't be proud doing such a thing myself, but if such a site will help our Chinese friends learn to program better, good luck to it IMO.

mustpax2• 17 years ago

That's a really good point about non-English content. Most popular community oriented sites out there, service one and only one language. As someone who grew up speaking Turkish, I can tell you that the quality of content in Turkish on the interwebs is quite sad compared to English. Most web sites service a global audience but there doesn't seem to be much i18n l18n going around. This creates a demand for stuff like this. There must be a way to service different languages better without having to clone websites though.

Still, I wouldn't be that nonchalant about stealing work. It's one thing to be inspired by Stack Overflow and build something similar, a 1-1 copy is different.

jhancock19• 17 years ago

i18n is a technical issue. What matters most in this case is not that StackOverflow does not have a Mandarin interface, but rather, it does not have a Mandarin community.

carbon812• 17 years ago

The language argument is a red herring that appeals to an outdated, pre-communications revolution worldview and tries to ignore the central issue here.

Language support has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this situation. If someone produces something based on a concept already in the wild, it's OK no matter what the language situation is. But if someone outright clones a site's design, it's a dirty move no matter what the language situation is. In its worst forms it's fraudulent and deceptive, in its most innocent form it's confusing to users.

jhancock19• 17 years ago

I do not think this new site is fraudulent or confusing to its users. I'm sure the vast majority of Chinese users will know this new site is a clone of StackOverflow.

Here's your litmus test:

If both sites exist and users in China overwhelmingly chose the new China based one, doesn't it prove that this new site is providing something that the original did not or could not provide?

catz2• 17 years ago

What exactly is the problem? The original stack overflow is CC-SA. This website: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/ says what it is meant by that:

You are free:

- to Share — to copy, distribute and transmit the work

- to Remix — to adapt the work

Under the following conditions:

- Attribution ...

- Share Alike ...

The Chinese cite shows that it is CC-SA (right bottom corner). Furthermore it freely acknowledges that it is based on stackoverflow. You can look at the blog [here](http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=_t&hl=en&...)

Here is an [answer](http://209.85.229.132/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=...) to what the relationship is between cnprog.com and stackoverflow:

The creation of CNProg are stackoverflow inspiration comes from (see "Why CNProg.COM create?")

SO once made to us, but because of Jeff and his team are currently no plans for localization, so we have created to serve the Chinese programmers CNProg. And our platform is already open source code, welcome like-minded friends to join us, millions of programmers to provide a domestic major technical Q & A community.

I can not see that anything morally wrong was done by creating this site - and it serves a useful purpose (by helping those people who speak Chinese).

> The language argument is a red herring that appeals to an outdated, pre-communications revolution worldview

This is the typical view of an English centric person. There are billions of people for who English is not a first language and whose second language English is not up to the standard that they can communicate with.

But who cares? I am sure that there are enough Chinese -speaking people to make this site a success.

sjs3825• 17 years ago

I saw someone complaining about this the other day. Not sure if your intentions are the same...

StackOverflow is CC-SA 2.5 licensed. The "derivative" site is also CC-SA 2.5 licensed. They both have clearly different audiences. I don't see a problem.

sjs3825• 17 years ago

I should also note that I didn't notice any attribution on the site, as required by CC-SA 2.5. I don't speak the language though, so I can't be sure.

catz2• 17 years ago

In the right bottom corner there is a CC-wiki logo with link to creativecommons.org

barredo3• 17 years ago

though I do not see any licenses problem with that CC-SA License in both StackOverflow and CNprog I do see an ethics problem in the CNProg staff using an exact copy.

Isn't there ANY thing to improve in StackOverflow? It's a perfect design for everything? Couldn't the Chinese webmasters made a few changes they thought will improve the site? Even the colours? Even the size of the fonts?

It's all China can do? Copy western things, making them cheaper due to their lower salaries compared with Western salaries?

Because it's what it seems to be.

sho5• 17 years ago

"I do see an ethics problem"

An ethics problem with cloning a site and releasing it as open source? Under an Apache license no less?

http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/browse/#svn/trunk

Not only do I not have an "ethics" problem with that, I think it's a good thing.

"Isn't there ANY thing to improve in StackOverflow? "

Well, they "improved" the logo! Seriously though, it's probably a single guy. He probably can't afford a designer, hell it's probably a hobby site. He probably, like me, absolutely loathes writing CSS and so just copied the whole thing. I don't see what the big deal is; you see things like blog themes cloned/ported all the time.

And he did do a lot of work - he rewrote the whole thing in Django and released it open source! Isn't that something? Compared to the effort involved in writing the back end, the font sizes are not a big deal.

"It's all China can do? Copy western things, making them cheaper due to their lower salaries compared with Western salaries?"

Now this borders on offensive. China is not some giant hive mind, acting as a whole in pursuit of a grand shared vision. It's a nation of individuals just like the USA - if anything it's even more diverse. You don't even know if the owner of this site is in China. Regardless, shame on you for lumping "them" all together like that.

Anyway, developing countries have a long and glorious tradition of shamelessly stealing the intellectual work of their more established contemporaries, including America, back in the day. 40 years ago it was Japan stealing from the USA. Now Americans copy their cultural styles all the time. And let's not forget where that grand American company, Disney, filched all its fairytale ideas from. What do you think the Germans thought when Disney copied practically every Grimm brothers story ever written, making billions, and now dares to protect and market its "trademarks"? Doesn't seem so bad when it's your side doing it, does it? But the german newspapers of the time said exactly what you just said about China - all the Amerikaner can do is copy and hide behind convenient legal fictions.

Pull back and take the larger perspective. Stack Overflow is a good thing, right? Well, now it's open source, with a Chinese version online. It's still a good thing.

And the Chinese programmer who takes your outsourced job will be that much more knowledgeable a programmer because of it ; )

(edited to emphasise & link to the open source code for the site)

carbon812• 17 years ago

I don't see what the big deal is

For one, it's borderline fraud if users don't know what site they are on. Perhaps that's not the case in this situation, but there are many situations where it is the case. Secondly, it's a dirty move. Cloning a website no different than creating a cola, naming it "Cokke," copying the packaging and having it stocked on shelves next to the original.

barredo3• 17 years ago

1 China is not some giant hive mind

You are right there and I was wrong and too simplistic.

2 Stack Overflow is a good thing, right? Well, now it's open source, with a Chinese version online.

I haven't notice that. I just browse the site. And yes, it's a great thing, I agree with you.

Also, why, then, there is no mention to StackOverflow at all on CNProg.com? A bit of acknowledgement will be fine, even if it's an Open Source thing.

Disclaimer: I'm not American (I'm from Spain), I'm not a programmer and do not have any problems with outsourcing at all

jhancock19• 17 years ago

barredo, I understand this is what it "seems to be".

The "Copy western things, making them cheaper due to their lower salaries" may not be true in this case.

There have been many cases where your view applies. I just do not think so in this case.

sho5• 17 years ago

I note that the "beta2" branch of this Open Source, Apache Licensed Project lists a "new theme" as a change.

http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/list

jcapote• 17 years ago

Probably built in 1/4 the time...

iamelgringo• 17 years ago

For 1/10th the price.

Dilpil• 17 years ago

With 1/1000th the security, stability, and maintainability.

jhancock19• 17 years ago

also with 1/1000th the ability to monetize (at the moment). In China you have to serve up loads more ads to get anywhere close to what the U.S. market pays.

Its a necessary thing that it costs so much less to create a start-up like this in China. Because the returns are so much lower.

In the long term, there is hope that size (of China) trumps this problem. But we haven't seen this happen yet.

jhancock19• 17 years ago

StackOverflow could never have served the China market like this project can.

i18n is a technical issue. It cannot solve the issue of "community". There needed to be a Chinese StackOverflow (not a language-translated UI for the same site), and now there is.

If your server isn't in China, it may as well not exist. You heard me right. If you want a regular user base interacting with your app in China, you must have a server in a data center in China. To run such a server in China, you must have an ICP (Internet Content Provider) license. These licenses can only be held by a Chinese national. If you are running a U.S. or EU based SaaS and do not understand this and do not partner with someone in China that can run your Chinese version of your service, you may eventually get copied. Its not about right or wrong. Its a matter of access for your users.

There is nothing devious about this Chinese "StackOverflow". Its clearly a copy and the writers open sourced it. I have seen devious. This isn't it.

Congrats again!!! This is a great step forward for the China programmer community.

...and congrats to StackOverflow for making something worth copying.

patcito2• 17 years ago

So where is the source?

jhancock19• 17 years ago

http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/

the license is http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0

cameldrv• 17 years ago

Can you elaborate on this? Is the necessity of having a Chinese server a speed one, a domain one, or general cultural awareness from being in the country?

igorgue• 17 years ago

guys... if you were hackers... you'd be getting the source and studying it not complaining about the ethics or ability to monetize or how much time or money they spend on it.

lanceusa• 17 years ago

Here is the Chinese equivalent to Twitter: http://fanfou.com

Chinese clone of StackOverflow. Uses even the same design, built using django.

Related Stories