Anxiety, Depression, Technology, and Me

http://anxious-tec.blogspot.com/2007/04/anxiety-depression-technology-and-me.html

by tiredandempty • 17 years ago

73 51 17 years ago

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jawngee3• 17 years ago

Great article.

I suffer from PTSD, GAD and mild depression. Having been involved in a fairly violent street gang in high school, I had seen a lot of violence and just plain f*cked up stuff. People getting shot in front of me, a lot of situations that forced me to confront my own mortality, etc.

It really didn't hit me until about 10 years ago. I was getting off the F train at 23rd street and had an overwhelming feeling I was going to pass out, which I then interpreted as my imminent death. It was frightening because it was so out of the blue and so intense. Who wants to pass out on a subway platform? Or worse, die on a subway platform?

For the next two years I tried to find a medical reason behind that first massive panic attack, but never found one despite spending several tens of thousands of dollars on medical bills. I finally had to accept that I had these certain mental conditions.

I used to reign it in through a variety of meds; anti-depressants, klonopin, ativan, xanax. I went to a cognitive behavioral therapist to figure out how to change my thinking and learn to control it.

These days I don't take any meds and though I still have massive panic attacks now and again, they mostly don't phase me as they're so common place now and you sort of grow to accept that these things aren't going away and it's your lot in life.

The most damning aspects of anxiety disorder aren't the panic attacks, by the way. It's all the passive shit that comes with it. Hyper-vigilance and derealization have to be the worst. Hyper-vigilance means that you are so focused on your physical well being that the slightest pain, discomfort, etc. gets misinterpreted as a major medical calamity. A cough becomes lung cancer, a mild pain in your armpit becomes non-hodgkin's lymphoma, etc. With derealization, you'll have entire spans of time where nothing seems real to you at all, familiar things become unfamiliar, etc. If you've read anything by Camus, you'll have some understanding what derealization is all about. It's pretty scary shit.

But despite all of that, I have what I consider a fairly successful career. I believe that is partially due to the CBT therapy, and part to my stubbornness to not be a victim.

I do think depression and anxiety are endemic to this current generation of technologists (late 20's and up). This new generation, seems more balanced though, so maybe it's a generational thing? Not sure.

One controversial thing that has helped me, as well as hurt me, is marijuana. Most times it helps me to get out of my head, specifically on days when the anxiety is thickest. On the flip side, sometimes imbuing too much brings the anxiety like nothing else. But most times, it's been more helpful than harmful.

gabrielroth• 17 years ago

I'm not sure why you gave up on prescribed psychotropics under medical supervision but you're still self-medicating with mariajuana. Is the latter more effective? Having a (capable, attentive) doctor monitoring your treatment can be a big advantage, and it's worth putting some effort into finding such a person.

jawngee3• 17 years ago

A variety of reasons. First and foremost, the side effects were typically worse than the benefits. For example, I was on Effexor XR for a year. The side effects from that included a lovely bubble sensation in your brain, sort of a cranial pressure that literally feels like your brain is growing too large for the skull it's contained in. The worst side effect, though, hits when you forget to take it. You get these things called "brain shivers" where moving your eyeballs causes an electric shock sensation in your brain. The more days you miss, the worse this gets, to the point that you are unable to get out of your bed because the slightest movement of your head results in a mildly painful shock.

Zoloft, on the other hand, is much more mild, but didn't really put a dent in it.

The benzo's were helpful, but are highly addictive. I still carry Klonopin around with me for those times when it's real thick, but I only use it as a last resort.

The most beneficial thing, for anyone suffering from anxiety, is CBT therapy as it teaches you a set of tools for navigating the anxiety and minimizing the impact of panic attacks. To me, that's far more sustainable than being a guinea pig for Pfizer. With CBT, you learn how to tackle it head on and come out on top. It takes some time, but it's doable.

For anxiety, in general, I see the AD's being used until you get to a point with CBT that you can handle it without. The long term impact of AD's are still unknowns, and their efficacy is constantly challenged. If you can get control without that dependancy, the better off you'll be. That's just my opinion though.

As for the marijuana, it took some trial and error to discover what worked there. In the last six months or so, I smoke significantly less than I used to, in fact I haven't smoked probably in the last three months, save a few times at parties or hanging with friends and playing Killzone 2. It has it's own set of problems though, but in contrast to all the other medications I've been on, it's been the most effective with the least side effects.

bprater2• 17 years ago

First, it's dangerous to give up psychotropics without a doctor's plan of attack. People that commit suicide and who take them are often found to be going cold-turkey when the incident occurs.

Second, I've found that when I've lived where pot is legal, that it has a similar effect for me. When I was really tightly wound at the end of the day, it helped me relax, shift my perspective and I could usually fall asleep in minutes.

ibsulon• 17 years ago

I can speak for myself. Wellbutrin made me paranoid, and Lexapro and Effexor had less serious but still life-altering side effects. Neither were worth the minor improvement in mood. (Further, they just make me incredibly apathetic.)

I'm glad that anti-depressants work for others, but I'm not willing to spend years going from side effect to side effect just to find the right drug which will probably stop working after a while.

maxawaytoolong• 17 years ago

I developed most of the symptoms of GAD last summer after having a panic attack where I ended up in the hospital. It was weird because I'm in my early 30s and have never had any anxiety symptoms before. I guess I was probably mildly depressed, but no prior history of panic attacks or other GAD symptoms. I believe the panic attack was brought on because I got food poisoning during a time period with a lot of uncertain work-related stress.

I find the hyper vigilance the most obnoxious thing about this. The other things I can't stand are various weird chest tensions and growling stomach issues, which are related to the hyper-vigilance thing. I'd probably not even notice them usually, but now they freak me out.

I've not tried any drugs but have used the "Linden Method" which was suggested by a friend. It was relatively useful but there's not much too it. Mostly: get an engrossing hobby like photography and learn some deep breathing exercises.

Other things that have helped:

- exercise, specifically outdoor exercise like running or surfing

- more social time with friends

- avoiding caffeine... this is a bummer since I really like coffee.

- one glass of wine seems to help, but drinking to excess makes it worse the next day

- regular sleep schedule seems to help

- spending less time using computer-mediated communication helps

- avoiding certain foods seems to help. I think indigestion triggers the hyper-vigilance response.

Out of all of these things, exercise seems to be helping the most. Thanks YC for the previous suggestions. I kind of knew that exercise would be the most beneficial, but it took some external prompting to actually get started running again.

I am interested in CBT. How do you go about getting into it? Just ask my primary care physician?

gcheong3• 17 years ago

Your primary care physician can probably refer you to someone. It would be a good place to start. "Feeling Good" (Burns) is a good source of CBT information and exercises. I would also recommend "Managing Your Mind" (Butler and Hope). Another approach called "Acceptance and Commitment Therapy" has showed some promise in research. The book "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" (Hayes) was written by the person who developed ACT. Another good workbook on the subject is "The Mindfulness and Acceptance Workbook for Anxiety" (Forsyth and Eifert).

jawngee3• 17 years ago

I found mine on adaa.org.

dkarl3• 17 years ago

"I am interested in CBT. How do you go about getting into it? Just ask my primary care physician?"

I wouldn't recommend it. Doctors have a wide range of attitudes towards therapists. A friend of mine who is a GP is scared to enter therapy because he's scared that other doctors in his area might find out and lose respect for him. So, evidently, your doctor might help you locate a therapist or might just decide you're a loser, or both. Or he might try to steer you toward a particular form of therapy that you don't want.

There are online services that list therapists in your area. I think (don't recall exactly) this is the one I used:

http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/

The profiles include therapists' training, preferred approaches, and pictures. Highly analytical people should really make sure they get a therapist with a PhD. Therapists without PhDs tend to be more empathy-based, less analytical, and more likely to ignore the content of what you're saying. A PhD will at least listen to your complicated ramblings, try to understand them, and glean information about you and your problems from them. She will be able to understand your questions and complaints. That doesn't mean she'll buy into your own framing of your problems and engage with you using your own terminology, but she will recognize that what she's hearing is important to understanding your inner world. A PhD is also more likely to be smart enough to provide a critical perspective on your beliefs and to explain and defend her own ideas.

jjames• 17 years ago

Article is from 04/07. Is there any followup? It's not clear from all the commentary whether the author learned something from the anonymous solicitation of advice or if it served primarily as catharsis.

For anyone else living like this individual, I particularly agree with the commenters who mention taking up photography to get you out into the world creating art without abandoning a detail/tech-centric tendency.

menloparkbum• 17 years ago

The photography comments are cribbed from the "Linden Method" which is a pretty successful anxiety treatment system based in the UK. The idea is that you need an engrossing hobby to keep you from obsessing about your anxiety.

ealar• 17 years ago

I have found that any art does the trick for me. Over my life I've played Viola, crafted pottery, attempted to paint, and done photography. Of those two were wildly expensive (photography, oil painting), and the others were cheaper. I think the main draw of modern photography for programmers is that a great deal of our technical skill transfers into every part of photography except taking a good picture -- so we don't feel baffled when we first start.

That said, if you want to take up music or some other art, it's never too late. Music lessons are fairly cheap and honestly indispensable (I held my viola wrong for six months of practice before I started lessons). Painting is a much freer art and you can produce decent works on your own without instruction. If you do painting, I personally found oil painting an amazing medium because it allowed me to constantly improve my paintings no matter how bad they started =p.

donna3• 17 years ago

A feral kitten came to a friend of mine after asking the universe to help her get rid of the voles in her garden. She name the kitten Quito, befriended him, showed him how to get in and out of the house through the doggy doors. Introduced him to the other animals in the house. This took about 2 months. Quito vole hunts during the day, and comes inside to sleep on a tower pole of carpet at night. He watches with a proud smile on his face, full of himself after doing a marvelous job vole hunting in the garden. The other day I visited my friend. I watched Quito hunt and amuse himself during the day, and at night I would walk by him and whisper to him stories. The night before i was leaving, Quito was laying in the chair I usually sat in. I sat beside him, he turned belly up, like a U, tail between his legs, paws wrapped around his tail.. GAWD.. soo cute. I told him the story of his beautiful successful day with this one particular special moment, about a hole in the tree. Quito was up in the tree eating the bark, and noticed a hole. The hole said, "Quito eat me". Quito replied, "I cannot eat you, you are a hole, you are empty...it will not fill me up." The hole replied.. but, I am infinitely filled-up inside... eat me." I made sounds of popping the hole into my mouth, and Quito took his paw and quickly tapped my lips, awww Quito tried to eat the hole, but he could not. The story distracted and satisfied Quito, he jumped down back to his tower and slept, most likely dreaming of the hole that is infinitely filled-up.

donna3• 17 years ago

It is unfortunate re the negative point. My story shared was to expose a distraction from focusing on being depressed.. find a another point-of-view. I intended to share the possibility of how one can focus on the negative or the positive aspects of one's day in every moment. Reflect and find balance during your day. Start by noticing and articulating the positive moments in your day, what did fill you up? Start with simple things. Did that toast for breakfast taste wonderful. Did you look out the window and see the sky.. beautiful or amazing. Learn a new language. Re-program your thought patterns. Re-compile how you see your day. It is not always about the BIG goals and changes. Aiming for BIG all the time will deplete you and leave you emptied. Take the time to find balance in seeing life, life has tiny moments too. Like writing code one character at a time... just might add up to a more fulling life.

swombat• 17 years ago

I think because of the rambling style and punctuation, and lack of paragraphs, it looks like some sort of spam comment.

Try using paragraphs more, and your posts will be more likely to be upvoted.

TheSOB88• 17 years ago

I do not understand. As much as I like cute carnivorous animals, what does this have to do with the story posted?

bprater2• 17 years ago

I tend to be anxious and depressed like the author, but I've improved over the years. Things that have helped me:

There are 3 kinds of books I read: business, programming and spirituality. (I don't read fiction.)

It's a challenge to keep up to speed on all three, but when I start pouring myself into the latter (spirituality), I find myself feeling much lighter, living more in the moment and enjoying whatever momentary mess I'm currently into.

(Spirituality isn't about religion. It's about figuring out how to go deeper inside of yourself to make life-altering discoveries. "Whoa, that's why I react like that when she ...")

I've also found that consciousness-expanding drugs have helped me too. I can get outside my own reality and see things a bit more clearly. (I lived in Amsterdam for a time.)

Hexstream• 17 years ago

How do you tell the great spirituality books from the bullshit ones? Are there spirituality books that an hardcore atheist such as myself can read? Lack of religious terminology would be a start.

mixmax• 17 years ago

I'll second that - I find the subject interesting, but must admit that almost all of the books I have picked up on spirituality start blabbering about force-fields and qantum mechanics without having a clue what they're talking about.

I have yet to find a good book on the subject - if someone from this forum can recommend anything it would definitely be appreciated.

raintrees2• 17 years ago

I think it is different for every person, as usual. I am a self-described atheist, and yet I have found much enjoyment in something as simple as The Tao of Poo by Benjamin Hoff. Seemed silly, at first, but I found myself listening to it (book on tape from the library at first) over and over again. Now I own a copy and the hard bound book. I usually get little lessons each time i relisten.

The lessons for me right now are: slow down, figure out a way to enjoy everything, because I'm still alive. Even in the bad stuff, there is some gleaming little tidbit in the corner that is helpful/instructive. And there is great stuff in what I used to consider mediocre. I don't need the extreme highs as much any more to feel good (still learning, still working on it).

I have a tendency to want to find the RIGHT way of doing anything I decide to do. Lots of angst, in that for me. Better to just let go, do my best at the time, and accept it as it is, as it happens. Eventually, it all seems to work out. If it does not look like it, It usually means I haven't waited long enough.

It then starts coming through in my work. Go ahead and ship it. Then keep refining it. Clients are usually nowhere near the perfectionist I am, and are usually quite pleased.

But, we're all different, your mileage may vary. :)

abstractbill• 17 years ago

I can definitely empathize with this. I don't know exactly when I stopped feeling the way the author describes, but it happened somehow.

I think living in California has been good for me - there's definitely an emphasis on living well here. I find it easier to take pleasure in the simple things now - hiking especially. Also I often get this "wow, I'm living in the future" feeling these days, which always makes me very happy.

logicalmind• 17 years ago

I find this interesting. Like many I can relate to the article too. I live in the midwest and some of my problem is seasonal. My doctor specifically told me that I should consider moving to a more sunny climate. I have toyed with the idea of moving somewhere more sunny like CA for years. I always wondered if it would actually make a real difference.

gcheong3• 17 years ago

The one thing I've found that has helped me the most is exercise. I wouldn't have believed it myself and most of the evidence I have is just my own subjective experience, but there is one incident that stands out where one day my boss mentioned that my attitude had completely changed for the better at some point. I didn't think it had, but apparently there was enough of a change for him to mention the observation. Of course, I can't say for sure it was the result of exercise, but I couldn't place it on anything else I had been doing at that point. It was enough to convince me that exercise is something I just need to do regularly.

dusklight2• 17 years ago

I can second that. You feel more energetic, you need less sleep, you think faster, your memory recall is better.

Perhaps more importantly, by exercising regularly you will learn discipline and focus, and my life has benefited so much from having more of that.

ruby_roo2• 17 years ago

If only I had the discipline to keep myself going to the gym. I am always glad that I did, but with that in mind, I don't know why I can't seem to keep it consistent.

What is it that fuels fitness freaks? And where can I get some? Not talking about roids or HGH, here. :)

pxlpshr• 17 years ago

I'll third this. However, I've always had a challenge of mixing work (which i do a lot of), and finding time for things like going to a gym, etc. I'm also not one looking to bulk up w/ weights, and when I'm away from work I like meditative things. Using the computer 12+ hours a day is an intense amount of information / brain processing. I think thats why tech people get depressed — they're often mentally exhausted and therefore vulnerable.

Yoga <3 combined with an exercise app I made for the iPhone is working great for me. I'm making this app for myself, and trying to productize it for hackers, life hackers, travelers, etc. It's available on the store now but we've got another few major iterations before it's where we'd like it to be.

HeyLaughingBoy• 17 years ago

I'm also not one looking to bulk up w/ weights, and when I'm away from work I like meditative things

I find it a bit funny you say that because I used to be "bulked up with weights" (now I mostly walk/run with a little weightlifting added) and I found it to be a very meditative experience. The euphoria of pushing a barbell off your chest, the total physical drain at the end of a set of heavy squats led me to a place where I was completely focused inward and totally at peace.

In fact I think it was that mental relaxation that kept me doing it for all those years.

dave_au• 17 years ago

For anyone struggling to find the time to get some exercise in, http://www.simplefit.org is pretty nice.

The workouts are quick, can be pretty intense, and are staged based on your progress. Not for some people, but I've been doing it combined with some running and have found it to be pretty good so far.

ruby_roo2• 17 years ago

I think most tech nerds can understand and appreciate the place this person is in. I know I do. If you're an INTP, I can almost guarantee that you have this problem.

Although I haven't conquered my own demons here, life becomes much easier when you know know that this is actually very common amongst intelligent people. In other words, this is only natural.

Accepting that the anxiety and depression are natural side effects of being a rabid thinker has actually helped me deal with it better. The anxiety and depression is still there, and I have my moments, but knowing that it is a natural phenomenon gives me a peace I would not have had otherwise.

It's not surprising to me that many programmers and deep thinkers end up practicing some form of Buddhism; getting away from the now is what our egos are trying to do constantly. Feeding your head with information is the geek's way of hiding from the present moment.

It seems as if I am always there; never here. And that is the origin of my depression/anxiety problems.

Prikrutil2• 17 years ago

I agree that some kind of anxiety is often (don't want to say "always") near to those who are said to be "rabid thinker". But is depression what I should think of a "natural side effect" of being such a man? If so, my would-be future (yeah, I want to be "rabid thinker"!) is going to be full of depressions :/

What I beleive is that any depression has a cause which can be (and should be) eliminated if you are going to be happy. If you really know what the problem is, you probably know what to do with this (it's harder when there are so many problems that it becomes impossible to find out the one-and-only root of all evil).

It may seem as if I'm trying to say that depressions are unusual. Not really, I think that is a stage which should be overstepped (but what if there are some such stages?)

old-gregg• 17 years ago

This story (and discussion) is so American... When translated into other languages I doubt it can be taken seriously by anyone.

Here, around 15:40 this cartoon/video explains why you feel like shit, in plain english with pictures, enjoy:

http://www.storyofstuff.com

apstuff• 17 years ago

Exercise + Cognitive Restructuring Therapy helps a lot.

It's hard not to feel anxiety and depression in today's world and some events can't be controlled. But how we perceive those events can definitiely be controlled by analyzing and challenging them for correctness.

Vilayanur Ramachandran's talk at TED on phantom limb pain addresses this idea very well.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/vilayanur_ramachandran_on...

keeptrying• 17 years ago

Kitesurfing or snowboarding. You need a physical outlet.

Exercise will give you peace. It worked for me.

Anxiety, Depression, Technology, and Me

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