EU Data Protection: Proposed Amendments Written by US Lobbyists

http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2013/02/eu-data-protection-proposed-amendments-written-by-us-lobbyists/index.htm

by EdwardQ • 13 years ago

154 38 13 years ago

blogs.computerworlduk.com

hipsters_unite2• 13 years ago

The audaciousness of taking those lobbyists' demands word-for-word and expecting nobody to find out in this day and age is pretty shocking.

lutze• 13 years ago

It's not audaciousness, it's ignorance.

hipsters_unite2• 13 years ago

Politician in "doesn't understand the internet" shock. It's an old story, I agree. Like when they wanted to "turn off Twitter" during the riots...

colinhowe• 13 years ago

Will the lobbyists now sue the EU for copyright infringement?

Create• 13 years ago

this same thing has happened before, ie. when they tried to legalize USPTO software patents in the EU reissued by the EPO.

obviouslygreen• 13 years ago

I think this is overly optimistic. It assumes that politicians don't understand that what they're doing will likely become public knowledge.

That seems excessively generous, and suggests that these people are actually ignorant of the scrutiny under which their actions can and likely will be placed. I don't think that's likely, at least in most cases, if not all.

It seems much more likely to me that these people simply don't care what their constituents think. Perhaps that's not something people in the EU are accustomed to, but Americans have been enjoying this phenomenon for generations. Perhaps our lobbyists are just spreading this problem like a political plague; if you think of it that way, they're our own ship full of infected rats.

Sorry, guys. We don't want them here either, but we didn't intentionally send them over there (or, at least, we didn't vote for it).

Nursie2• 13 years ago

The wording in any data protection act within the EU should be strongly anti-US. It's been shown many times that the US government does not consider data held in the US or by US corps on non-US citizens to be protected at all.

homosaur4• 13 years ago

Even without looking at the ethics of all this, you're exactly right. At the most basic level, why do governments do things that are against the national interest in favor of multinational corporations or other countries?

I think the answer probably has to do with who is picking up the tab. Politicians are owned, even more so the higher level you get.

Nursie2• 13 years ago

I'm not sure it's so simple, but there's definitely something wrong. You wonder if they live in a little echo-chamber that only lobbyists have access to.

In terms of laws that impact trade I think they absolutely do need to consider whether new data laws will make trade with the US (or other entity) difficult, because it could negatively affect both sides. However they shouldn't always shy away from it when it's the right thing to do.

netcan2• 13 years ago

There are layers upon layers of problems here.

1. EU democracy and governance is not great. Very few europeans have any understanding of how the EU legislative process works or feel like they have anything to do with it.

2. Lobbying is increasingly making a mockery of consultation as an idea.

3. These laws are pretty technical and the people making them have no understanding of the issues. They don't need lobbyists to make stupid laws. See the UK/EU cookie laws for an example. They mandated that all sites must have nag screens. They cost the economy money. Annoy all european website users and achieved absolutely nothing useful. Malice may have had some role, but incompetence had a bigger one in that case.

I wish the EU would think creatively about its whole legislative process.

rmc3• 13 years ago

Actually a lot of EU directives are relatively easy to read. It only gets complex and legalese when national governments transpose them into national law.

homosaur4• 13 years ago

I think you mean when the EU overlords give directives and then the slave countries are forced to manipulate language and law to make those directives legal in their nations.

Hyperbole? Only sorta.

netcan2• 13 years ago

I'm not talking about the language. I mean that if you ask someone in Italy or Poland how reps get elected, what their job is, what sort of laws they can make, how they get enforced locally, how you can participate, etc., then they have no idea.

It feels more like the American IRS than the Congress.

axelfreeman• 13 years ago

I agree with you. The result of the "cookie law" is stupid, but this is an interpretation of the webmasters. The law says that you must ask before you save data on the clientside if its not the main reason. But there are still many questions.

Why couldn't they say: We have a tracking-problem let's force to use do-not-track or make better default cookie options? Problem solved.

twmb2• 13 years ago

Actually most of the EU democracy processes are easy to understand. I'd like to see a European comment on the efficacy of their process. Most follow a proportional system, some follow a mix of proportional and single member single district (winner take all), and Great Britain is winner take all.

They also have much more party discipline. Somebody voting for a party knows the type of policies that party will enforce, and if people are not crazy for the policies being passed, the vote in a different party in the next election.

Also, I would argue that lobbying is more prevalent in the US. Low party discipline + the much greater "need" for money = more money influence.

cabalamat3• 13 years ago

> Most follow a proportional system, some follow a mix of proportional and single member single district (winner take all), and Great Britain is winner take all.

To clarify:

- all seats in the European Parliament are elected by proportional systems, either STV or list systems.

- the parliaments of EU member states are elected by a wide variety of systems, including list systems, STV, winner takes all (FPTP, in Britain), two-round winner takes all (France).

> They also have much more party discipline.

Are you talking about member states' parliaments here, or the EU parliament?

jules• 13 years ago

You are confusing the governance on the European (edit: EU -- see below) level with the governments on the national level.

mtgx• 13 years ago

There are some pretty smart young people behind the Data Protection law, but these US lobbyists seem to want to water it down a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYsE6s2FFqI

In the video they also mention how they maybe get to talk to politicians once every 3 months (because of budget constraints) while lobbyists are there every day talking to them.

cabalamat3• 13 years ago

> Very few europeans have any understanding of how the EU legislative process works

This is true. I'm trying to combat this (in the UK) with http://www.euroelection.co.uk/

> or feel like they have anything to do with it.

Which is why turnout is low and falling.

> These laws are pretty technical and the people making them have no understanding of the issues.

Hopefully the situation will be better in the EP after 2014, if more Pirates are elected (there are 2 at present). Then it will be a lot harder for lobbyists to baffle people with bullshit on internet and copyright issues.

popee• 13 years ago

Can you define Pirate party politics? When you think about it's not party, it's movement and because of that it should ugrently define coherent politics or it will be 'less elected'. Pirates don't have consistetnt politics! I had impression it's center to left, but talking to some member i got impression that spectrum is from total right to total left. Btw i'm (still) party memeber, but i don't freaking like when some conservative facebook hipsters (that, for example, don't know anything about GPL) talk about what it's all about. Sad stuff :-(

onemorepassword• 13 years ago

Although I agree with all of your points, let's keep one thing very clear: if it were left up to national governments (with the possible exception of Germany), civil rights protections in the EU would be considerably worse of.

National governments are directly pressured by the US, and MEP's are relatively independent from national politics compared to their national counterparts.

It's the corrupt national governments that tried to push ACTA trough the EU parliament (and failed) and it's those same governments that are now pressuring the EU to lift privacy protections.

The influence of lobbyists is not an EU problem, quite the contrary. It's the supposedly more democratic and transparent national governments that sell us out.

znowi• 13 years ago

I'm not sure why is it the top comment.

EU democracy may not be great, but it's a lot better than American, in terms of social justice. Lobbying, especially its American variation, is well known for its corruptive quality. And the mentioned cookie law, though an oversight, still, in essence is a preferable direction protecting our privacy, in contrast to we own all your data defaults of the US.

Although, I agree with the closing sentiment that a wider awareness of the legislative process would be desired, I think the focus in the scope of this article should be on the US lobbying practices in the EU and the Data Protection reform, in particular.

mattmanser• 13 years ago

The title of this has been changed and is wildly misleading.

New AMENDMENTS being proposed by some MEPs are taken from lobbyists. These are amendments to the presently extremely pro-consumer proposal that are trying to water it down.

contingencies• 13 years ago

I am involved in some FOIA at the moment. It seems to me thus far that, at least at times, the EU Data Protection Supervisor (EDPS) has been well meaning but have been actively sidelined by other, pro-American-outcome parts of the European beast. For example, see: http://www.asktheeu.org/en/body/edps

larsberg• 13 years ago

Somebody should make a kickstarter for political lobbying.

Then, somebody could start a project to raise funding for writing new patent laws, and based on funding thresholds there'd be a certain amount of lobbyist facetime with congresspeople, "draft legislation" provided, etc. Why should big companies be the only ones playing that game?

It'd be like the White House petition system, but with some results - even if they're just congressional awareness.

knowaveragejoe• 13 years ago

The same problems will still exist.

EU Data Protection: Proposed Amendments Written by US Lobbyists

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