It’s a bad time to be a hacker in the United States

http://pandodaily.com/2013/01/17/its-a-bad-time-to-be-a-hacker-in-the-united-states/

by treskot • 13 years ago

66 44 13 years ago

EliRivers3• 13 years ago

It certainly is with people like the author dropping the dime.

rdl5• 13 years ago

I can't imagine Adrian or someone else in his position not doing exactly the same thing. Remember, he's a convicted felon, and had every reason to suspect he was still a target.

A totally random person IMs you out of the blue, talking recklessly about crimes he'd committed, and trying to elicit your support and confirmation of understanding and support in furtherance of acts previously and ongoingly committed. Even if you support some of his motives, you'd be wise to either report it (as Adrian did), or, at the very least, make it clear you neither understood nor supported the actions. Otherwise, you're part of a conspiracy, and thus even more fucked.

The guy could either be an informant trying to entrap you, or at least had such recklessness that he'd approach someone and be reported/caught later, so you'd be at risk if you cooperated in any way.

There could be a slight difference if you were a protected party (someone's lawyer, priest, spouse, doctor) and if the crime were not something which carried a duty to report.

(IANAL)

andrewcooke• 13 years ago

in which case, maybe you could say "dude, fuck off" and close the session?

duaneb• 13 years ago

Look, I'm all for better laws and such, but most of what constitutes being a hacker (in the HN sense) doesn't even approach illegality. I think it's never been a better time to be a hacker.

nmb• 13 years ago

"most of what constitutes being a hacker (in the HN sense) doesn't even approach illegality"

I wouldn't say that. As an example, many companies in the (very crowded) data-storage or file-sharing space spend a lot of money on legal fees to cover their asses (or do damage control) in case of copyright violation when someone decides to share the latest DVD rip using their service. There are many other examples like this. People in our field are constantly exploring the limits of what we can and can't do with technology in the context of laws that were created without these uses in mind. True, it has never been a better time to be a hacker, but I think when/if we have all these issues sorted out it will be even better.

dpeck• 13 years ago

Uber, AirBNB, and quite a few other "hacker" companies are dealing with quite a bit of (il)legality these days.

kaonashi• 13 years ago

It's a bad time to be a whistleblower too.

yuvadam• 13 years ago

It's a bad time to be any agent acting against the plutocracy that rules the world as it is today.

EvilLook2• 13 years ago

Especially if you discuss things with the author of the piece, Adrian Lamo. Adrian Lamo is not a hacker. He is a Fed. Pure and simple. His hacking convictions were there to give him cover.

jasonkester• 13 years ago

To many, a hacker is anyone who does something with a computer that is not trivially understood. To law-enforcement and the criminal justice system, a hacker is someone who commits a computer-involved crime.

So to clarify, it's actually still a great time to be the former. It's not now, nor has it really ever been, a good time (or a good idea) to be the latter.

The rest of the article seems to just be an explanation of why that is.

jessaustin3• 13 years ago

"To law-enforcement and the criminal justice system" the former criterion implies the latter.

tedunangst4• 13 years ago

Citation needed. Are they picking up random Haskell programmers off the street now?

unknsldr• 13 years ago

I agree. Ignorance is certainly exacerbating this matter.

I was facing criminal charges for a python script that monitored a mail server that I owned. My security clearance was suspended. My professional reputation was tarnished. The charge was that I "hacked" several computers. With no evidence, with little more than a complaint from two people, all of my previously reputable work (never mind my TS clearance) was discarded and I was regarded as a threat. An escort was required if I was near a computer. I could not use any of the Information Systems. I was given a utility closet with a 55 gallon trash can and some cleaning supplies to call my desk. My chair was missing one of the wheels so it rested at an angle. This lasted for four months.

It was impossible to prepare myself. How would my script be 'understood'? I was trying to learn python. The script monitored headers for internal messages being forwarded to external accounts and blocked them. A message was sent to the offending party with the policy that prohibited this act. Pulling from the headers, the message included the intended recipient in the body to the offender. Yet it was more readily believed that I "hacked" the computers of the sender and recipient to accomplish the effect.

Though this is trivially understood, it is not easily accepted by people who are not aware of the fundamental mechanisms of a mail server. I attempted to explain my script using postal mail as an analogy. I explained the auto response as being similar to vacation messages. The charges escalated from "hacking", which was the compromise of a system I did not own, to interfering with the delivery of sensitive information. I was mortified. In trying to explain what I was doing, I dug a deeper hole. Fortunately for me, definitely not for the 'victims', the information that was being sent was now classified and regarded as sensitive. The fact remained that I owned the mail server and it was not authorized for use transmitting sensitive information, which is the responsibility of the 'victims' to know. The charges were promptly dropped and I spent the next several months clearing up the matter with the rumor mill. My clearance took quite a while to be reinstated. I was no longer regarded as a credible subject matter expert to seek for consultation. I was blacklisted, in a sense. I packed up and moved on when I could.

I wanted to better understand Python and mail servers and it nearly crushed me. Once I was labeled as a "hacker", the most diabolical intentions were projected upon my every behavior. Encrypted emails? Suspect. Modified a router to respond to all probe requests? Sinister. Assembled a transparent bridge using commercially available equipment in your garage? Treasonous. I was concerned that my curiosity would held against me. It was a nightmare. That is as mush as I can recount.

anExcitedBeast• 13 years ago

It's a great time to be both. Profit opportunities are virtually unending for attackers.

subsystem• 13 years ago

It's only great to be a hacker because the term has largely lost even its extended meaning. The hacker has, for lack of a better word, been gentrified.

fatalerrorx3• 13 years ago

Hackers should form security companies and offer hacking as a service. Many private companies would rather pay a third party security firm a fixed price to solve any vulnerabilities versus hiring a team of fulltime security experts on their payroll.

rdl5• 13 years ago

Most of this is done through consultancies already.

n3rdy• 13 years ago

I’ve also worked the other side of the fence, working with law enforcement and the US Government on computer-involved national security issues, most notably in the apprehension of Bradley Manning for leaking military and diplomatic secrets to Wikileaks.

This isn't something to be proud of.

_k• 13 years ago

Exactly what I was thinking.

mpyne4• 13 years ago

Why? I ask this because many politically-minded hackers are under the misapprehension that Bradley Manning was purely a whistleblower, which is not the case.

georgemcbay3• 13 years ago

My thoughts on Bradley Manning are more complicated than the simplistic "Free Bradley!" or "Hang Bradley!" extremes one often sees when it comes to that case.

I don't fully support what he did and I think he was wrong to do it in the manner in which he did and thus he deserves some punishment. I also think he stands as an unfortunate symbol of how the idea of the writ of habeas corpus is completely dead in America, which sucks.

As it relates to Lamo, though, I think it is clear that the way Lamo went about convincing Manning to reveal what he had done while convincing him that he (Lamo) was a journalist and priest and thus Manning would be protected from disclosure was hugely unethical and marks him as one of the great asshats of all time.

aqme282• 13 years ago

Isn't he?

He released evidence of scores of crimes and warcrimes. His actions were a major catalyst for the Arab Spring, yet something for which he has literally been tortured.

nnq• 13 years ago

This is the "meat" imho:

> A law becomes unjust when a person of ordinary — or even extraordinary — intelligence cannot readily predict what charges might arise from a given activity.

...if I were to commit armed robbery, I could easily find out what law I would be breaking and what kind of prison sentence I'd get. With infosec and IP laws, you'll never know how they could be wielded against you!

snowwrestler• 13 years ago

Why does anyone continue to give Adrian Lamo a platform? He is like the Kim Kardashian of computer security--he's famous for being famous. I'm not aware of any evidence that he knows what he is talking about, particularly when it comes to various criminal penalties (he gets these blatantly wrong).

Edit to add example: Lamo says

>To put this into some kind of perspective, if Swartz had committed violent battery of a Supreme Court justice or a member of Congress he would have faced, at most, a year locked up in the pen — as long as he didn’t use a deadly weapon.

The maximum prison sentence for aggravated assault in DC is actually 10 years. And if you use a deadly weapon, it adds an additional maximum penalty of life in prison.

georgemcbay3• 13 years ago

I wish I had known Lamo wrote this before I graced it with a click.

He's also the guy who turned in Bradley Manning (after convincing Manning he could communicate with him in confidence since he was a priest).

Canada• 13 years ago

Who cares what Lamo thinks

EvilLook2• 13 years ago

This piece was written by Adrian Lamo and can be summarized as follows:

faaaaaaaaaaarrrrttt, pffffffffffttttttttt, pffffffffffttttttt, faaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrttttt, innuendo, lies, bullshit, faaaaaaaaaaaartttt

It’s a bad time to be a hacker in the United States

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