Bitcoin-Central.net is now licensed to operate as a bank in Europe

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129461.0

by mtgx • 14 years ago

238 71 14 years ago

jerguismi3• 14 years ago

Not actually a real bank but as a payment process, which consists of everything else except credit.

modarts• 14 years ago

The whole point of Bitcoin is to act as a decentralized currency free from the controls of banks, other financial institutions and government fiat.

How does Bitcoin-Central square with those aims?

kiba• 14 years ago

Bitcoin doesn't care about the "whole point of decentralization". It's like saying that the purpose of the personal computer and smartphone is to democratize computing.

The designer may intended that bitcoin to combat governments and banks, but anybody can use bitcoins, including the governments and banks, agorists, drug cartels, heroes and villians alike.

Frankly, if bitcoin wants to dominate the world, it must be as useful as possible and non-discriminatory in who use it.

mtgx4• 14 years ago

I don't see this as a bad thing, quite the opposite. This will make it an order of magnitude easier for people to buy Bitcoins in Europe, simply by using their bank accounts. Once everyone uses Bitcoin as the preferred currency to buy stuff, it won't matter if the governments shut down this specific bank. People will continue to use their Bitcoin addresses through other services or tools.

The most important goal right now is to get people to use Bitcoin, and for services to adopt Bitcoin as well, so it can have a real economy behind it. Once it has a large enough global economy behind it, it should be unstoppable.

mrb3• 14 years ago

Bitcoin needs to interface with the legacy banking system, so that people can easily exchange bitcoins with EUR, USD, etc. (Don't you, critics, always complain it is complex/shady to buy bitcoins?)

Well, bitcoin-central is precisely that, an interface to the decentralized Bitcoin system.

jdangu2• 14 years ago

This is significant, because Bitcoin exchanges are illegal in Europe, unless they get a payment processor license.

- Converting to/from BTC will become easier

- Accepting Bitcoins as a merchant will be easier

mtgx4• 14 years ago

Bitcoin exchanges are illegal in the whole of EU? When they did they pass such a law?

agorabinary2• 14 years ago

In all the universes in which bitcoin succeeds, it first succeeds as a protocol for which traditional currencies circumvent their own limitations, as this value is immediate, palpable, and unaffected by bitcoin's scarce use. Only then, once this niche is established, will bitcoin succeed as a widespread end-user currency on its own right.

This paradigm is present in so many innovations. It's simply tapping more readily accessible value as a way to construct a launching pad for further growth.

Angostura• 14 years ago

> a protocol for which traditional currencies circumvent their own limitations

Could you explain what you mean by that.

pdog• 14 years ago

Those may be reasons for the development of Bitcoin, but Bitcoin itself is simply a technology. Any number of use cases may emerge from it, even ones we can't foresee. It's entirely possible that Bitcoin transactions will largely occur between big "banks" and behind-the-scenes, and people will simply use their bank accounts.

jerguismi3• 14 years ago

"The whole point of linux is being able to not needing to use other operating system or propiertary software".

This is clearly bollocks. Bitcoin is just a tool, like linux, and can be used for numerous different purposes in numerous different ways. There is no "point" in Bitcoin, it is open source software that everyone can use as they will.

Some people clearly seem to think that bitcoin is meant for something special, in bitcoin community and outside of it. The funny thing is that even they can't have any control over how bitcoin is used, except for their own usage of course.

kaonashi• 14 years ago

People want it to be a financial solution to political problems. It won't do that.

lucb1e3• 14 years ago

Can someone explain what the use of being a certified bank is? I know it's easier to do bank transfers then, but Mt. Gox allows this already, also in Euro. And I thought Mt. Gox was a certified bank actually, especially considering the legal documents they require for Euro transfers.

laSeek5• 14 years ago

Mtgox wishes it was a bank :) They ask for the docco for AML (trading) requirements - so they're not shifting the 5M btc that they've processed to dodgy criminal types - like lawyers & politicos :)

bdcs2• 14 years ago

TL;DR: Bitcoin-Central.net, a French Bitcoin exchange gets many needed protections and features: (1) FDIC-esque insurance to fraud/etc., 100kEUR and 0BTC; (2) Personalized bank account numbers, making transfers easy (IBAN); (3) Segregation of client and company money; (4) Very easy and secure way to transfer money; (5) An ID is the only thing needed to sign up

lucb1e3• 14 years ago

Hmm could you elaborate on point 4? I didn't think of that, but yeah I guess with regulations, that adds another layer of security. Just how much exactly? If it gets hacked, I guess this still doesn't mean we can get our eur/btc back?

drakeandrews• 14 years ago

In the UK Mt. Gox have had issues with several banks who've basically disavowed them and all but refuse to do service with them. Having a certified payment processor means banks can't do that.

mrb3• 14 years ago

Please change "is getting licensed" to "is now licensed" in the title!

baq• 14 years ago

please explain how a truly fiat currency without a national bank defending it against wild speculation is better than the currently existing alternatives? i understand the desire of creator and all miners to be able to easily liquidate their bitcoins, but i don't understand why other people would want something like this. could somebody point out what i'm missing?

duaneb2• 14 years ago

Digital cash is pretty powerful. Drugs, illegal activity, probably money laundering.

kirian• 14 years ago

Also accept payments from any where in the world, lower fees, financial privacy, open protocol allowing open competition. Many, many positives, not just illicit reasons.

laSeek5• 14 years ago

USD has been the currency of choice for decades for this.. What's the difference?

Cash is anon as cryptocoins are.

finnw2• 14 years ago

> probably money laundering.

If you want to launder money, it's extremely stupid to use a form of digital cash in which all transactions are public and any amateur data miner can have a go at tracing the transactions.

narrator• 14 years ago

When someone sends bitcoins and is provided with a product or service they cannot ask for more of that product or service unless they have provided a product or service that some other member of the bitcoin community deems worthy of their bitcoins. This is not the case with fiat money where governments can print money and demand you take it in exchange for products and services.

In high inflation economies like Argentina for example where foreign currency is strictly controlled, people are starting to save in bitcoin to preserve their wealth. I've heard that one can get a very good exchange rate for bitcoins in Argentina.

Dylan16807• 14 years ago

I..what? Nobody can demand you take anything in exchange for products and services. The meaning of legal tender is that you have to take it for debt, but nothing forces you to be a debtor, or to do business with anyone at all. The only way the government can hurt you with money is to devalue it by printing too much.

finnw2• 14 years ago

If the government is forcing you to hand over your possessions (or provide services) it does not matter what currencies they can or cannot print. There is no limit to the strategies available to them...

Example 1

"We're buying your house (whether you like it or not), how many Bitcoins do you want for it?"

"10,000"

"Great. By the way, we just made a new law that says we can pay you in peanut shells as a substitute for Bitcoin, at the same rate."

Example 2

"We're buying your house (whether you like it or not), how many Bitcoins do you want for it?"

"10,000"

"Ok here's your 10,000 Bitcoins"

(10 minutes later...)

"By the way, under the PATRIOT act, we're ordering you to hand over all your encryption keys. Including the private key of your Bitcoin wallet. If you don't make a fuss, we'll be nice and let you keep 1%, and not throw you in jail."

noarchy2• 14 years ago

I know that for some, bitcoin seems to be a solution looking for a problem. But there are those for whom the idea of a currency that is disconnected from a national bank is very attractive. The idea of a "free money" (free as in freedom) has long been a dream of many anarchists/libertarians. This is not to suggest that Bitcoin is a final answer to that issue, but it has proven that the concept has a chance to succeed in the real world, and not just in the writings of idealists.

dmix2• 14 years ago

> has long been a dream of many anarchists/libertarians

Crypto-anarchism to be exact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto-anarchism

jdlshore• 14 years ago

Speaking purely from a business perspective, if I implemented support for accepting BitCoin in my subscription service, it would be for two reasons: lower transaction costs and potential publicity with my target audience.

I can't speak for others, but both of those (particularly the former) make /accepting/ BC interesting to me. Although, admittedly, not so interesting that I'm seriously pursuing it yet.

The more traction BC gets, the higher it goes on my priority list.

foxylad• 14 years ago

This. As a non-US entity, we pay a substantial tax to PayPal/Visa/Mastercard for US-denominated payments. I don't mind paying taxes to the government for civilisation, but I do object paying large corporates for what is in essence toggling two numbers in the bank's database. Bitcoin could potentially increase efficiency of almost every business by up to 5%.

From my (admittedly naive) viewpoint, the elephant in the room is the anonymity. Governments won't like this because it makes it harder for them to monitor and catch bad people, and to ensure I'm paying my taxes. So when governments become aware of bitcoin there is going to be huge pressure to shut it down. And they could do it, no matter how decentralised and trans-national bitcoin is. Imagine MAFIAA tactics but ten times worse, with constant media reports of how bitcoin is the currency of the terrorists and child pornographers.

But that's where this announcement is exciting. By tying your bitcoin address to a bank account, you lose anonymity but gain legitimacy. And governments then have the option to selectively legislate, instead of simply killing bitcoin completely.

Interesting times...

eduardordm3• 14 years ago

I think a blog post I wrote months ago is somewhat relevant: http://eduardo.intermeta.com.br/square-should-have-its-own-c...

mtgx4• 14 years ago

So now you can cconvert normal currencies from your bank account to Bitcoin in US through Coinbase, and in Europe through Bitcoin-Central. Are there similar services for Latin America, Australia, Asia, Africa and Middle East?

eduardordm3• 14 years ago

In many countries, this is the current legal situation:

You can't buy or sell bitcoins because it's not a recognized currency by the central bank. In fact, selling any foreign currency here (brazil) can be a crime under certain circumstances. You need to be a bank or a currency exchange backed by a national bank to do that. You are not allowed to buy more than 3000 dollars of foreign currency easily.

Bitcoins, unlike common currency, carry value and can be used by general public. It's like having gold coins. I'm not a complete believer in legal tenders being the future of payments. I see bitcoins as the storage of value, but not method of payment.

Bitcoins could replace gold.

But this matter is way too complex for my limited forex experience, take this as my 2 cents.

wintersFright• 14 years ago

>>Bitcoins could replace gold.

umm. no. central banks hold gold as a reserve asset. all other reserve assets are liabilities of foreign govt's. eg: USG. Central banks aren't about to replace the only unencumbered physical asset they have with a digital algorithm.

>> I see bitcoins as the storage of value, but not method of payment

I think you have it the wrong way around. Bitcoin could be a medium of exchange but not a store of value. It's too small isn't liquid enough to be credible as a SOV. If it got big enough to do so then govt would crush it.

jethroalias97• 14 years ago

> I see bitcoins as the storage of value, but not method of payment.

If this comes true, the bitcoin system is in trouble. Block reward is down to 25 bitcoins a block. It will half one more time then no more money for mining, it'll all be through transaction fees.

If people are just storing bitcoins and not using them, there wont be enough transaction fees and lots of miners will drop out, making the system more vulnerable to takeover by government or malicious miners.

jerguismi3• 14 years ago

> I see bitcoins as the storage of value, but not method of payment.

If they are a storage of value, you have to be able to buy and sell them. Therefore exchanging them has to be possible. I don't see big step from this to actually using them as a payment. Instead of exchanging traditional money with them, you just exchange the goods and services directly.

mrb3• 14 years ago

Actually Bitcoin-Central is open to all people across the world, not just Europe:

"We won't have limitations regarding the citizenship of our clients." Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129461.msg1382319#ms...

umami• 14 years ago

The signup page is down.

chris123• 14 years ago

If they or anyone wants a Bitcoin bank domain name -- http://bitcoinbanker.com -- contact me. I registered it for a project that got de-prioritized.

hackerboos• 14 years ago

If bitcoin-central.net wants to buy bitcoincentral.com then they can get in touch with me. I've had a few offers but I'd like to see it go to the right company.

halviti• 14 years ago

Why not contact them?

lucian303• 14 years ago

that's what the governments want of course

known• 14 years ago

Does bitcoin influence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triffin_dilemma

Bitcoin-Central.net is now licensed to operate as a bank in Europe

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