Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/22/science/988-youth-suicides-decline.html

by marojejian • 3 months ago

231 109 3 months ago

marojejian• 3 months ago

gift link: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/22/science/988-youth-suicide...

I bet there is so much more we could do to reduce suicides, which are a massively big problem. I wish we paid as much attention to suicide as we do to very rare mass shootings, which kill a tiny fraction of the people.

bombcar3• 3 months ago

It's important to remember that the majority of gun deaths are suicides.

It's also important to remember that any blocker between a potential suicide victim and the weapon of choice reduces rates greatly. A gun locked in a safe where the potential suicide knows the code - reduces rates.

rolph2• 3 months ago

https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/facts/data.html

the data from CDC agrees with you, and agrees that a firearm is most common method.

but also indicates age correlate with freq of suicde by firearm.

guess who the least frequent group is, kids.

now that might fly in the face of stats, but suicide is an "intentional" thing. [that rides on the idea that you are competent to form intent when suicidal]

so yes if you keep your guns secure, and gun proof your kids to mitigate accidents that should improve things, for kids.

however take at least as much care for your grandparents, they are apparently at extreme risk, of forming intent and, acting especially grandpa.

Barrin92• 3 months ago

the Israeli military did a study about ~15 years ago where they looked at soldier suicide rates after they had enacted a policy of leaving the weapons at base over the weekend and if I recall correctly it cut the rate of suicides by 40-50%.

skylerwiernik• 3 months ago

Interesting. What causes this? Could it have to do with the type of person to keep a gun in a safe (has kids, is more cautious in general, etc) or have studies shown that this minor friction is actually enough?

throw0101d• 3 months ago

It's also important to remember that any blocker between a potential suicide victim and the weapon of choice reduces rates greatly. A gun locked in a safe where the potential suicide knows the code - reduces rates.

RAND found that minimum age requirements and child-access prevention laws reduced suicides and unintentional injuries/deaths and violent crime:

* https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/child-acce...

* https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/minimum-ag...

* https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy.html

dfxm12• 3 months ago

It doesn't have to be a competition, and similar things, like making it harder to get a gun, introducing/enforcing laws around locking up your weapon, making mental healthcare more available (including a hotline), etc., will greatly reduce both.

hirvi744• 3 months ago

I bet there is so much more we could do to reduce suicides

I am absolutely certain that is the case, however, society operates with such demands from individuals that a majority of necessary changes would be adamantly fought against by those which stand to benefit from the suffering.

Having been through the whole mental health treatment gamut in the USA, I am convinced the only goal of the system is to patch people up just enough that they can be churned back into the capitalist machine. What makes things even sicker, is that one's health insurance is often tied to their employment, so in order to receive basically any treatment, one is typically required to be employed and working.

GuinansEyebrows2• 3 months ago

this is a really weird comparison to make given that the US has basically made no material progress on policy that could prevent mass shootings.

they're both really really bad things. they both deserve as much attention as we can afford (which is more than they get).

not to just jump down your throat -- i agree with you about more needing to be done to prevent suicides though. i think it's a good thing that hotlines are available but it's clear that putting the onus on people who are considering suicide to reach out for help is not enough. we gotta get better at reaching out and checking on our friends, loved ones, coworkers etc and help them carry the load more than we're culturally accustomed to.

fhn• 3 months ago

in your opinion, what policy should be made because whatever policy you make won't do much as long as guns exist?

JumpCrisscross4• 3 months ago

the US has basically made no material progress on policy that could prevent mass shootings

Mass shootings vary significantly state to state, in part —I think—due to different gun and mental health laws [1].

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/mass-shooting-rat...

mystraline3• 3 months ago

So yeah, why not?

Choosing to end thyself IS the penultimate "my body, my choice".

We have immediate "no money, lost job, destitute" (insert temporary issue). And we have chronic, everpresent, or terminal problem.

We could fix the first one, but socially we choose not to. Either way, we should have the right of bodily autonomy.

I guess the american answer is, for a suicide help call, show up with pigs with guns, and shoot them for disorderly conduct?

alistairSH2• 3 months ago

The phrase "suicide by cop" didn't create itself out of thin air.

sokoloff• 3 months ago

Choosing to end thyself IS the penultimate "my body, my choice".

If that’s the penultimate, what’s the ultimate?

ceejayoz8• 3 months ago

About a year ago:

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/trump-shuts-down-lg...

The Trump administration on Thursday afternoon officially terminated the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline’s LGBTQ Youth Specialized Services program, which gave callers under age 25 the option to speak with LGBTQ-trained counselors.

As with the USAID cuts, this killed people.

bjourne• 3 months ago

That's pure evil.

shevy-java• 3 months ago

Personally I never called any such hotline; my assumption was that suicidal thoughts originate from one's own brain and way of thinking - adjust that and these issues would go away. Unfortunately, while this can work (for me it worked extremely well, though I should also say, I don't have suicidal thoughts to begin with, even more so as one's lifespan is finite anyway - but I do understand those who have a terminal illness, to not have to go through more suffering when something is uncurable), there are people for whom it can not work, often in the way how their brain works. Just like some people have seizures, brains are different too.

It puts some responsibility on those who receive such calls, because the caller may be in a state where any additional negative input could push that caller over the edge, due to their current state of mind. So this kind of requires more training even of casual people, just as people are expected to know the basic steps necessary for first aid (on a fresh accident site, for instance). It seems pretty clear that those on the national hotline, must have had professional training too. So if there is a decline of suicides, this is most likely - and logically - due to the work by those who take up the phones.

Forgeties79• 3 months ago

This is bootstraps by another name. “Just (don’t) do it” belongs in nike commercials, not in discussions surrounding behavioral health. If it were that simple then we wouldn’t have these issues at this scale in the first place.

Nancy Reagan “just say no” comes to mind.

Jtsummers2• 3 months ago

This is a fantastically ridiculously comment.

my assumption was that suicidal thoughts originate from one's own brain and way of thinking - adjust that and these issues would go away. Unfortunately, while this can work (for me it worked extremely well, though I should also say, I don't have suicidal thoughts to begin with

You're, in this comment and the part I quoted, saying that adjusting your thinking worked well for you (with the implication that it worked well in dealing with suicidal thoughts), but you say you don't have the problem (suicidal thoughts or ideation) under discussion. This is like saying, "I've heard that you can walk it off when you break your leg, and that's worked for me, but I've never actually had a broken leg." Complete nonsense.

nomel2• 3 months ago

but you say you don't have the problem

I think it's very clear stated that they HAD the problem, but were able to work through it, resulting them in not HAVING the problem.

So, it's more like they broke their leg, it healed, and now they no longer have a broken leg.

edit: I am dumb.

nyanmatt• 3 months ago

I don’t see how. Have you ever tried calling one of these lines in a suicide emergency? Things I’ve learned in California:

- an ambulance will not be dispatched unless you physically witness someone trying to kill themselves

- otherwise, they send the police

- the police arrive without training and severely escalate the situation

- the person having an emergency will be taken into custody and stripped of rights until being medically evaluated (not arrested)

This is the program of an allegedly progressive state. After 2 experiences like this, adding trauma to already traumatic situations, I would never recommend these hotlines.

ceejayoz8• 3 months ago

I have a loved one who used the 988 hotline several times.

None of them resulted in police intervention. Our county has a mobile crisis team of social workers who show up and get you connected to services.

spwa45• 3 months ago

... services that use force against individuals. Never ever, ever tell a social worker of any kind that you think of suicide, or that anyone else does. ESPECIALLY not if you're young. Help, or social worker's kind of help, does not help. And getting rid of social workers ... I almost killed one before that happened.

All the lip service they make to that force is not the answer. It's lies, cheats and deception on their part, nothing more. Once on a forced youth services vacation I locked, with an entire group, a social services worker into a room. She became instantly educated why locking the rooms was a bad idea, why not even having a lock on the inside was an incredible mistake, and why youth workers ignoring screaming in the facility was an incredibly bad idea. All these people want is to be the big man (yes, including the 19 year old women who join), and you cannot explain it to them. After she eventually got out, we never saw her again, and the others were a LOT more flexible.

And that wasn't even close to the worst that happened.

These things is what social services calls "protection". They purposefully create situations where Gandhi would eventually beat up his own mother, and call it protection. Don't do this to people.

wakamoleguy• 3 months ago

And yet the data shows that they did decline. I'm sure they could be much better, and the response will vary from state to state.

fontain• 3 months ago

They're crisis services, not emergency services. Anyone who is an immediate danger to themselves or others needs to be attended to by the first available emergency services. The attending services should be trained to deescalate, definitely, but I don't think this is an indictment of the crisis lines themselves. Less than 1% of calls to the crisis line result in any sort of emergency service dispatch.

nkingsy• 3 months ago

If you want an ambulance dial 911.

These hotlines are for providing support. They are trained not to escalate to sending someone unless they absolutely deem it necessary (and the caller agrees). My wife has been working the hotline as a volunteer for 6 years and has not once escalated to sending someone.

As others noted, my California county has a dedicated team to respond to this.

hirvi744• 3 months ago

I find something darkly depressing and comedic about how we try to prevent people from shooting themselves by sending people with guns to help them.

JumpCrisscross4• 3 months ago

how we try to prevent people from shooting themselves by sending people with guns to help them

People with guns are still people. Having anyone there will reduce harm in more cases than it escalates. Suicide is usually an impulse a lonely person who is otherwise perfectly sane carries out in the absence of intervention.

themafia3• 3 months ago

A fact I've noticed is that suicide rates are higher in areas with lower population density. For example, Alaska's suicide rate is 4x what New York's rate is.

Perhaps just human connection, even momentarily, is enough to break the pattern of behavior that has lead to the ideation.

Also worth noting that suicide rates among the elderly are higher than they are for anyone other than teens. If you have someone you love that doesn't get out much, make sure you give them a call now and again.

euleriancon• 3 months ago

An alternative explanation is that cold places with long winters are depressing, and because they are depressing fewer people want to live there.

Alaskan winters are hard regardless of how many friends you have.

pibaker• 3 months ago

The more likely explanation is guns. Gun ownership tends to be higher in rural areas because of a mixture of culture, politics, utility and laws. Only 14% of adults in New York State have guns compared to 59% in Alaska. Having a quick, easy and painless way to end your life right on your nightstand makes it a lot more likely that a bolt of suicidal urges turn into action.

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/gun-ownership.html

daheza• 3 months ago

Very much disagree and I am in California.

I have called this line in particular during a sever major depression episode. I tried calling my fraternities mental wellness hotline first but it went unanswered which I thought was quite funny at the time.

The rep was able to talk me down through my spiraling thoughts. Told me that "no your therapist was not egging you on when he said well why don't you commit suicide what's holding you back". He was instead trying to figure out my reasons for living.

They do not automatically call the police and telling people they do is harmful. My anecdotal evidence has been a much better experience, and others I know who have called have said the same.

I'm not sure what would cause them to send the police but having a safe line to call when you have nothing else is important. Maybe the change that should happen here is having social workers or other mental health representatives respond, not getting rid of the phoneline.

uyzstvqs• 3 months ago

Well that's just not true. You're supposed to call 911 if you witness someone else in crisis, not the crisis hotline. The police will be sent because they have baseline training in de-escalation, and they have officers with specialized training in crisis negotiation. An ambulance is relevant only if someone is already hurt. They're medical professionals. Even in that situation, police officers are usually dispatched to investigate and to keep the ambulance personnel safe in a potentially unpredictable environment. And you're correct, protective custody exists and it's there to keep the person in crisis safe.

NoMoreNicksLeft• 3 months ago

The police will be sent because they have baseline training in de-escalation

There are something like 30,000+ police agencies across the United States, and a proportional number within California (if we're talking about that place in particular and not more generally). To say "they have baseline training in de-escalation" is, at best, wishful thinking. While no doubt some departments make that a part of their training and within those departments most patrol officers will have undergone the training (enough that your statement wouldn't be especially incorrect if you were to specify one of those departments), it is beyond fallacious to assume that this holds true for all of them in general.

Even when the training does exist and the officer has completed it, it consists of a one or two day seminar. They are not evaluated in a way that some pass and some fail. We do not know who took it seriously, and who thought it was some jackass bleeding-heart bullshit that they could ignore. We do not know if those anyone gains by it... if some are good at it afterward and others are bad at de-escalation afterward, has that percentage shifted upwards compared to whatever their pre-training scores would suggest?

I do not believe you when you fallaciously assert "they have baseline training". No one else should believe you either, if the answer actually matters to them. I do not know why you assert this, and the speculation ranges from "not a good reason" to "even worse reasons".

nxobject2• 3 months ago

It's good to celebrate this... but, looking forward, it's worrying to think whether kiddos these days are going first to ChatGPT instead, of, well, the hotline (or real people!) I think there's genuine value in going to an AI -- as long as you think of it as "interactive journaling", and not a human relationship. But, will they encourage struggling kiddos to make the leap and ask for support from an actual person?

inetknght• 3 months ago

will they encourage struggling kiddos to make the leap and ask for support from an actual person?

Where's the profit in that?

malfist• 3 months ago

I think there's genuine value in going to an AI

What's it going to do, help them avoid passive voice in their suicide note? Encourage them to carry it out? Hype them up about suicide? Tell them they're absolutely correct?

nxobject2• 3 months ago

Honestly? As a veteran journaler who’s struggled with depression, I’ve always wanted an “organize everything that I splurted out today while I was overwhelmed” feature.

I guess the question is: can we encourage kids to use AI to help organize their thoughts and reflections, while avoiding just looking for cheap affirmation? I dunno - we’re not prepared to teach AI literacy at that level.

umpalumpaaa• 3 months ago

A while ago I was seriously sick + in a hospital (for a few months). The doctors told me that I won't be able to resume my regular job (software engineer). At the same time I was in a lot of pain – unable to sit, walk, stand. It was not really clear how it all would end.

I got deeply depressed and just wanted to die. The pain was just too much - even with controlled pain medication in a hospital setup.

I called the German crisis hotline almost every night and they were usually very very helpful. They listened - sometimes for 1-2 hours. In 90% of my calls I felt way better after calling them. They really are well trained and some of the personalities I talked to were pretty impressive and interesting… They have seen a lot…

keybored5• 3 months ago

I’m glad that it helped and that it worked for such a seemingly somatic issue. I wouldn’t have thought that.

washadjeffmad• 3 months ago

That's understandable. I went through a period of chronic pain and, had it continued, I likely wouldn't be alive today.

The mechanisms protecting us from non-existence by millions of years of evolution can be eroded by pain. It's not something you realize you even have to lose until you've experienced it firsthand. I certainly never expected it, and it's hard for me to imagine what I'd intended while going through it.

jodacola• 3 months ago

I just listened to a fascinating podcast episode of Armchair Expert on pain psychology that went into such topics [0].

May not be some folks’ cup of tea, but I was sucked in and want to study more.

[0] https://armchairexpertpod.com/pods/rachel-zoffness

Frieren• 3 months ago

I hope that you feel better now. And I am very happy that you got help.

Mental help is never a cost for society, it is an investment.

ButlerianJihad4• 3 months ago

Mental help is never a cost for society

At the risk of going “No True Scotsman” on this assertion, I would point out that providing such services has been increasingly lucrative and it is a growth industry where new providers are arising constantly, and existing ones are expanding vigorously.

That means that the space for fraud, waste, and abuse is gigantic. I have, on occasion, perused the FOIA lists of de-licensed providers, and this list reads like a watchlist of dangerous religious cults, because that is literally what they are.

Imagine if the state and taxpayers could fund a variety of new religious movements in efforts that would be lauded as “health care”. It is absolutely amazing.

Many unlicensed or unscrupulous recovery facilities have been scooping addicts off the streets, because you taxpayers are funding “housing” and “treatment” that is so attractive to client and provider alike. Drug-addled Indigenous men willingly hop into unmarked vans that cross state lines to drop them into homes (literally looking like private homes in residential neighborhoods) where they supposedly get treatment “for free”.

Those outpatient facilities that are invisible only need to get a patient hooked so they keep coming back every month, and that’s a guaranteed paycheck. Everyone you see living under bridges and in sewers, they represent billable hours for outpatient clinics. They are far more valuable than they appear because of the taxpayer dollars that support their ongoing “treatment” and “recovery”. It’s probably not worthwhile to get them off the streets, because of how valuable they already are!

Reagan moved to close the asylums after One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, but if you drive through the cities today knowing what to look for, you’ll see enormous BH facilities going up like mu$$$hrooms, literally.

Not to mention the unspoken costs to sanity of the workers themselves. BH is always hiring and there are always job openings, even for the mentally ill themselves to be “peer support”, so often your treatment will involve one or more people with mental illness already. Nurses and doctors burn out. Have you ever seen Harry Potter and how many teachers for Defence Against the Dark Arts he had? It’s exactly like that.

In fact, the new national crisis line is established as a funnel, to funnel new and existing clients back into the “treatment and recovery” systems, because there is so much profit in keeping them there.

keybored5• 3 months ago

it is an investment.

Everything is a capital metaphor.

b3ing• 3 months ago

In the US they try to get you off the phone after 5 min and you can hear it in their voice, I know there is a lot of traffic but still it doesn’t help

ButlerianJihad4• 3 months ago

Imagine if you and 1,000 of your neighbors called the 9-1-1 dispatch for a little heart-to-heart.

This number in the USA is designated for people in crisis, and a crisis responder is going to be under time pressure to resolve your crisis or hand off the situation to some other team as it de-escalates.

My county also has a “Warm Line” that everyone is encouraged to call, but they do set timers. Once your timer runs out, they tell you how long to wait, and then you can call back.

If your case is so involved that it requires extensive discussion, then they can refer you to a clinic or local professional who can help, you know, during normal business hours.

Mental health care often involves long conversations, but the mentally ill can also chew up enormous airtime by talking, and talking to the wrong person. The crisis operators are not therapists and they’re not paid to establish relationships.

declan_roberts• 3 months ago

One sad fact I learned about adolescent suicide (12 to 18 years of age) is that it's seasonal. It picks up during the school year and drops precipitously during summer and winter vacations.

Being in school has a profound impact on whether or not a child wants to kill themselves.

http://basilhalperin.com/essays/school-and-teen-suicide.html

tombert• 3 months ago

I wasn't suicidal when I was in high school, but I absolutely understand people's depression around the school year.

I actually don't hate school as much as an adult, but I really did view school like a prison when I was a teenager. I didn't like homework, I didn't like most of my teachers, I liked learning but due to the fact that schools have to go at a pace slow enough for the dumbest person they want to pass, I would get very bored during class, and so high school in general was existentially dreadful every day. Even when I got home, I would dread the fact that in about ~15 hours, I would have to go back to school again.

It didn't help that there was a dread with grades in general; I wasn't abused or anything, and I think my parents in general were pretty ok at parenting, but as report card season came nearer and nearer, I would get more and more depressed, because when I would inevitably get middling-to-bad grades, I would get a lecture and/or grounded by my parents. This meant no computer, no games, I wasn't allowed to hang out with my friends, and they hoped that it would force me to study more. It's not dumb logic, but it just didn't work. I would just be sad and angry and still wouldn't do the homework.

No doubt a large chunk of this was just hormonal, but I really think that the typical American school system is not a good fit for a lot of people, myself included. I don't think anyone has ever seriously called me stupid, but I would be in camp that endlessly frustrated teachers: I would do well on the tests, I would do well on the AP exams, no one disputed that I understood the course material well enough, but I just didn't care enough to do the homework so they would be forced to give me bad grades. I don't blame the teachers for this at all, they're just doing their jobs.

Despite being in AP classes and having skipped two grades in math, I was seriously considering dropping out of high school and just trying for the GED so I wouldn't have to go anymore, and I probably would have done that if I didn't think that my parents would freak out.

I didn't want to kill myself, but very few things brought me more joy in my life than knowing I wouldn't ever have to go back to high school again. I know a lot of people say that these are the best times of their lives, and power to them for that, but they were decidedly not for me.

keybored5• 3 months ago

Adults put teenagers together and some of them get miserable. The adults’ response: oh lament the teenage woes, what is to be done. We are just adults with all the power on our side.

I get the feeling that modern Western society and institutions are woefully maladjusted for those particular years.

Those teenage moodswings are somewhat like upvoting/downvoting on HN.

ed_balls• 3 months ago

Something I read recently really stuck with me: giving people methylphenidate or other stimulants may lower the risk of a second suicide attempt by around 25%.

Cytobit• 3 months ago

If we want people to feel safe talking about suicidal thoughts, we need to rework the involuntary commitment laws. As it is now, a person has every reason to be fearful about opening up. You can be imprisoned, humiliated, and medicated against your will, all without due process of law, just because you were careless with your words.

esbranson• 3 months ago

Murderers who are declared insane by a court aren't even involuntary committed for lengthy periods of time.

Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

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