Hospital at centre of child HIV outbreak caught reusing syringes in Pakistan

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyrd818gd2o

by flykespice • 3 months ago

181 97 3 months ago

dwa3592• 3 months ago

I was in middle school when we were taught that used syringes were one of the causes of HIV. Can't believe a hospital would do this!!!

CGMthrowaway2• 3 months ago

These are hospital volunteers reusing the syringes. There's no telling they even went to middle school.

satya71• 3 months ago

This is common practice in much of developed world. Long ago, they used to have re-usable glass syringes that could be sterilized. Unfortunately, people switched to disposable syringes. The unit costs are...high in the US, unreasonable in developing countries.

It's not just this hospital, it's widespread ([1] report 38%)

[1] https://www.emro.who.int/emhj-volume-26-2020/volume-26-issue...

i7l• 3 months ago

Do you know why they couldn't switch back to glass syringes?

faangguyindia• 3 months ago

If you forget to autoclave them or not done properly you end up with infected patients, risk is just too much

ButlerianJihad6• 3 months ago

Equipment that can be sterilized has been forced out of the market by these disposable things. It is far easier to push disposable product on medical providers and encourage rent-seeking and subscriptions to such things.

It’s exactly the same way with contact lenses. When I was in college in the ’90s, I could get a pair of permanent contact lenses. They would cost a few hundred bucks, but they would last me several years if the prescription didn’t change. They were the same as glasses. You would clean them everyday and disinfect them, and they would serve quite well permanently.

But the contact lens industry decided that wasn’t good enough, and decided that they could sell subscription services for contact lenses that you would need to discard every night.

And those daily wear contact lenses, the disposable kind, basically forced out of the market the permanent ones and now the optometrist regards me as a Martian when I request permanent lenses instead.

kqgnkqgn• 3 months ago

If you can't trust them to follow the very easy directions of "throw away the single use syringe", how likely is it that they are going to follow the much more complicated process of properly sanitizing the glass syringe?

nameconflicts• 3 months ago

1. They're talking about the current situation, but you're bringing up history. 2. Given the lessons from the past, why would you still want to do something this dangerous?

SanjayMehta2• 3 months ago

From the WHO article linked to by GP, the issue is that patients also insist on injections over oral meds.

That's driving the insistence on injections, and rural doctors/clinics cutting corners.

seb12043• 3 months ago

Cost, or availability due to cost. Still a driver in developing countries.

SanjayMehta2• 3 months ago

A quick search found a pack of 100 disposable syringes in Pakistan for PKR 1100/- which is less than USD 4.

That's 4 cents per syringe. Seems quite reasonable to me. Seems they don't have economics as an excuse.

https://ailaaj.pk/products/apple-disposable-syringe-5ml-100s

CGMthrowaway2• 3 months ago

A month's wage in Pakistan is about $125. So each syringe would feel like a cup of Dunkin does to many in the USA

leonidasrup• 3 months ago

There is strong correlation between life expectancy and GDP per capita.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-vs-gdp-pe...

Been poor is your biggest health risk.

https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/

Marsymars5• 3 months ago

That article also makes it seem like patients in Pakistan are receiving what seems to me like a wildly high number of injections:

An injection was provided during 53% of patient visits in Rawalpindi and 92% in Tando Allah Yar
Patients from Tando Allah Yar reported a mean 3.8 visits to a healthcare provider by a member of their household during the previous month, compared to 2.5 by those from Rawalpindi (Table 2). During all such visits, an injection was given. Overall, 56% patients felt that an injection was necessary. Such perceptions were higher in Tando Allah Yar than in Rawalpindi (79% vs. 39%) (Table 2). Providers reciprocated such perceptions in that 44–56% of providers felt that an injection was required for common ailments such as fever, influenza, body aches or diarrhoea.
Patients expect to receive injections for minor ailments such as fever or influenza-like symptoms and willingly pay for these, on the mistaken belief in the efficacy of injections to overcome common symptoms that eventually abate with time (10). Healthcare providers comply with such wishes and are convinced of the necessity of injections.
We have previously demonstrated that the total national supply of syringes in Pakistan is sufficient to meet the demand for the ~1.1 billion syringes used annually for immunization, diabetes, laboratory testing and drug administration in clinics or hospitals

On the last point, I did a bit of a search to look for the total number of syringes used worldwide. I'm actually questioning whether that number is using similar methodology to arrive at the ~1.1 billion number, since I'm seeing numbers around 15 billion for the annual number of injections - meaning that Pakistan would be using over double the average per-capita number of syringes (and re-using many of them) while simultaneously having a population that's much younger (23 vs 31 median age) and poorer ($7k vs $26k median PPP/capita) than average.

If those numbers check out, the simple solution would just be to stop giving unnecessary injections, money would be saved, and there'd be no need to reuse syringes.

ceejayoz2• 3 months ago

A similar thing happens in the US; people demand antibiotics for a cold. It’s easier to say yes than to explain the reason it won’t work.

LorenPechtel2• 3 months ago

Probably patient demand for *something*. The problem of antibiotics for viral infection is well known but the problem with needing to do something is far more widespread. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of saline is getting injected.

Aurornis2• 3 months ago

> Patients from Tando Allah Yar reported a mean 3.8 visits to a healthcare provider by a member of their household during the previous month,

This seems like an excessive number of doctor visits, too. I can’t imagine a household where someone is going to the doctor almost every week. 45 doctor visits a year and they’re getting injections (of what?) most of the time?

loeg2• 3 months ago

This is common practice in much of developed world.

Do you mean "developing?" This is not common practice in rich Western countries.

Additionally, as sibling has already pointed out, sterile disposable syringes are extremely cheap.

Ferret7446• 3 months ago

The reason we switched is because it's cheaper (including the logistics overhead costs). Sterilization and transport isn't free

SoftTalker2• 3 months ago

It's also not perfect. Sure you can throw instruments into an autoclave or even boiling water but they have to be kept sterile after they come out, which is probably harder to do especially in underdeveloped, resource-poor areas.

themafia3• 3 months ago

The unit costs are...high in the US

So many products are bundled into purchase agreements at hospitals that you can't, in general, sensibly talk about per-unit costs.

imtringued2• 3 months ago

The unit costs per syringe are incredibly low even by Pakistani cost of living standards and the cost of reusing a syringe is extremely high.

You're coming up with an extremely complicated solution that would be a complete non-issue if the yearly salary of Pakistani citizens rose by even a single dollar.

halperter• 3 months ago

https://archive.is/a9p1X

Does anyone have alternative archival sites? I want to switch away from archive.today because of the uncivil behavior [1] but can't find any other archival sites that can unpaywall websites.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/02/wikipedia-might-...

jjmarr• 3 months ago

Does the BBC even have a paywall that needs to be bypassed so people can pirate news?

LeoPanthera2• 3 months ago

Currently only in the USA. You can read a few articles for free, then there is a $9/month or $50/year subscription.

It includes the website, the live streaming BBC News TV channel, and a library of documentaries.

ceejayoz2• 3 months ago

I've been getting one intermittently in recent weeks on the BBC site from the US.

LeoPanthera2• 3 months ago

Have you considered paying your way through the wall?

If you're not willing to do that, it's "uncivil" to pirate their content, wouldn't you say?

aussieguy12342• 3 months ago

One way to think of infection control best practice with needles like this.

The cost of a new needle, syringe or new gloves is quite cheap.

The cost of an infection is high.

The cost of a HIV infection is life altering.

So, its clear that whoever did this thought that whatever small savings they obtained from not using a fresh syringe was more important to them than the high likelihood their patients would get infections, including HIV.

seb12043• 3 months ago

Your cost claims need to be considered with the perspective of the country or location of the clinic.

hsbauauvhabzb• 3 months ago

And from the perspective of who pays the cost.

aussieguy12342• 3 months ago

Wherever you are, the cost of the said items is always much cheaper than the infection

kelnos2• 3 months ago

Unfortunately, the person making the decision to save money on syringes isn't the one who has to bear the cost when something goes wrong.

jaypatelani2• 3 months ago

US should rather sanction Pakistan than getting IMF loan to it.

mlmonkey• 3 months ago

And what will Pakistan do with such an IMF loan? The Generals would siphon off most of it to buy their palatial Dubai houses and London condos. Until Pakistan cleans up its act, giving it more loans it throwing good money after bad.

ETH_start• 3 months ago

The parent comment is suggesting sanctioning them, not giving them IMF loans.

themafia3• 3 months ago

The Generals would siphon off most of it to buy their palatial Dubai houses and London condos.

Next door to other world leaders doing the same? Is that truly our motivation for not transferring the money? Some generals might illicitly buy houses?

Until Pakistan cleans up its act

I'm sure "The Generals" are going to help there.

giving it more loans it throwing good money after bad.

Abandoning them entirely as hostages is not acceptable.

malfist2• 3 months ago

How would sanctions help?

jaypatelani2• 3 months ago

If you block loans they will try and act on trading with other countries which will be more helpful overall than just throwing money at the problem

calvinmorrison• 3 months ago

expect nothing less from a country that has the largest slave population in the world.

geor9e• 3 months ago

There's obviously terrible procedures happening at this clinic, involving contamination, but that one video doesn't seem like the culprit. Notice he removes the needle, then injects medicine into a cannula tube, not flesh. He then re-attaches the needle, draws the second dose, and injects again. That was the problem. The narrator says he then used a brand new syringe for every child, but that initial procedure contaminated the vial. Cannula tubes are primed with saline, that's kind of a long gap for blood to travel to contaminate the vial. Yes he did it wrong, but I get why he thought it would be ok.

foragerdev• 3 months ago

All the Americans/Westerns telling Pakistan is a poor country, it's your governments which are responsible. For the context, US/EU has been sponsoring military governments by toppling Democratically elected governments because some democratically elected Politian's are not as submissive as a corrupt Army general.

Latest case, in which an elected Prime Minister Imran Khan was removed from the office due to US sponsored regime change operations by Pakistan Army. Trumps current favorite Field Marshal Asim Munir as he is serving US as Imran Khan could not (US demanded air bases after it exited US from Afghanistan, which was denied by the elected PM and soon after he was ousted). And later, US kept silence over the election delayed in 2023, And then election was stolen in 2024, and everyone knows that Pakistan Army did still US/EU kept silence. Here people talking about poverty and low income about Pakistan.

Since US/EU sponsored government directly ruled by Army and Trumps favorite field marshal Pakistan has not progressed even 1% since then. People income fallen more than 50% more than 60% people is living below poverty. All because of the hypocrisy of US/EU governments. If you guys care so much about people, at least force your governments to not support such regimes. That would be enough for the people of the country. Instead of telling them that they are poor or xyz.

What I described is just a recent history, we go deeper in the history, history is full of such incidents. And I further do not take it as if I am putting total blame on foreign powers, Pakistanis are to be blame as well. But foreign powers sponsor such regimes all the over the world to have control on certain regions.

Hospital at centre of child HIV outbreak caught reusing syringes in Pakistan

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