Hiring well is hard

http://swombat.com/2012/11/12/hiring-is-hard

by DanielRibeiro • 14 years ago

13 14 14 years ago

Peroni2• 14 years ago

Going against the HN grain here:

Stop assuming that the word 'start-up' makes you more appealing.

There are some incredibly talented developers working for start-ups across the UK and Europe. I have a significant amount of experience in trying to source the top talent in Europe and I can categorically state, the majority of 'top talent' don't work for, and have little interest in working for a start-up. They work for established organisations that offer legitimate career opportunities, stability and the financial backing to give them peace of mind.

...Europe has a shortage of talent

Debatable. I've been first hand witness to startups struggling to hire the best talent to the point where it almost cripples their business. I've also witnessed established organisations having a hard time filling their vacancies. There isn't a talent shortage. There is, however, a shortage of great developers.

Hiring well is hard. It's incredibly hard. That's why recruitment companies exist and that's why recruitment companies make billions annually. That's also why I'm convinced there is a ridiculous amount of money to be made in offering a solution that overshadows the corrupt and unethical business practices the recruitment industry perpetrates.

hnwh• 14 years ago

" There isn't a talent shortage. There is, however, a shortage of great developers."

Not sure I understand the distinction here?

Peroni2• 14 years ago

There are an endless amount of average developers on the market. There are a sizeable number of decent developers on the market. There is a very limited amount of great developers on the market.

Guess which one of the three most companies are chasing.

hansc• 14 years ago

Agree with hiring well is hard, but not with why it is hard. I think there is way too much focus on hiring rockstars: Some of the beste people I worked with, were people I initially wasn't working well with and vice versa.

You do need good people, but I think that focussing on rockstars will give poorer results in the long run. Are they going to stay when stuff gets more mundane? Are they going to do the boring stuff? Are they going to work well together iwth other people in the team. My experience tells me to get good people that get stuff done, so that the founder(s) can focus on the entrepreneurial part.

Swannie• 14 years ago

I agree. A wise manager once said: "I don't want Rock Stars. I want a team that Rocks". So yes, we have a team of very mixed skills.

But I agree most with this idea that you want to hire "the best", or "highly talented". The thing is, no one started out as a great employee, with bags of talent. The rare few that got very good, very fast, were snapped up by the worlds of finance, corporations, or are already Director of Engineering in a start up. (Hint: you can't afford them unless you offer them a painful amount of equity).

Everyone else, early in their career, needs training, mentoring, coaching, regular feedback cycles, a manager that is willing to have the open and frank conversations about what they should and shouldn't focus on to achieve more results. You have to grow talent.

So "good people that get stuff done"... it's a classic Joel on Software type statement. How do you find them? I meet a lot of people who never "get stuff done"... but why is that? Is it because they are lazy? Bored? Incompetant? OK, you don't want these guys. But what about: they are perfectionists and nothing is ever quite right to be called finished? Or do they always find themselves stuck trying to micro-optimize? Or are they always "late" because they got into the design, and realised the use case was wrong, so they fixed the use-case first? This second class have a lot of potential, with little "extra" effort.

ashray• 14 years ago

Startups are not appealing because they do not offer a key ingredient that most people look for in jobs 'stability'.

Want to work longer hours for lesser money and a lot more risk ? For a lot of people the answer to that is no.

Furthermore, large established companies do have a lot of brand value. Getting to say "I worked for Google" and "I worked for X unknown startup that tanked after 2 years but we had a good run" are very different things.

Unfortunately, it's hard to sell risky prospects to people. The going gets even tougher for startups without fat funding rounds because they can't really afford to pay top dollar. Then their only hope is to find fresh but relatively inexperienced talent. Also, a lot of programmers who are interested in startups would also ask themselves "Why should I work with these guys when I could start my own stuff up ?"

For those that love and crave the excitement of working at a startup and making a real difference in your product - well, maybe there should be a place where you can hire such folks ;D (startup idea!)

DirtyMonkey2• 14 years ago

I read this as “Hiring is well 'ard” and thought Catherine Tate had found HN.

I started looking for my first hire a few months ago, and it hasn't been easy. But in that time I've come across plenty of people that don't have the skills or experience I require… they do however have a lot of motivation. I'm currently helping three people learn the fundamentals of web development, and every day I'm surprised at how fast they pick things up. In-house training is the way forward for me.

YousefED• 14 years ago

Interesting, what was the base level experience of the three people you're training?

I'm currently looking for a (mainly frontend) webdeveloper, and even finding an intern proves to be quite difficult so far.

DirtyMonkey2• 14 years ago

The first guy was quite ‘techy’ to begin with and had dabbled in web development beforehand (PHP). The other two had absolutely no experience, surprisingly (for me) they have picked up things much faster – maybe because they have no prior notions or assumptions about how it all works but I'm not sure. They continuously mention how they can't believe how simple a lot of things are. Whereas the first guy seems to have already formed opinions about how difficult something is before actually trying it. He also procrastinates quite a bit (I believe it's because he thinks things are harder/bigger than they really are) – the challenge with him has been to break his misconceptions (“Git is difficult”, “The command line shouldn't be used” etc.) and to just get on with it.

Oh and a bit off topic, but just to mention that one of the other ‘guys’ is a girl… and after a few months of seeing her code, I think every team should be comprised of as many women as there are men (and be more diverse in general). It might just be her, but she approaches some problems in a completely different way to the rest of the team and her perspective has saved us from banging our heads against the wall many times. She also notices things that the rest of us are oblivious to. One day I'll get around to writing a blog post about it, haha.

In short, I would love to have the resources and time to train more people up from scratch – I never considered it before, it's all been positive so far. But, for most of the heavy lifting I'm still relying on either myself or freelancers. As for finding interns, I just asked around friends and family… it turns out there's a _lot_ of people that have thought about web development at some point but don't have a clue where to start – for some reason they thought they had to be good at maths or art.

Edit: just to clarify, they aren't interns… at the moment it's sort of informal class. We have a project that we work on over weekends (and a little bit during the week) . At the rate they're going, I would hire them in 6 or so months though.

Robin_Message2• 14 years ago

The problem the quoted blog post was having was trying to hire a unicorn (http://www.designstaff.org/articles/hiring-a-designer-2011-1...) – they want expert Javascript skills and design skills. They don't tend to happen in the same person, and so command a high price.

nephronim• 14 years ago

Actually we weren't looking for a unicorn since we have a designer (me actually) we were looking for a frontend developer which actually broadened out to a developer.

Robin_Message2• 14 years ago

Fair enough, in which case, perhaps the problem was your job ad sounded like you wanted a unicorn when in fact you didn't.

Looking at the job ad on your site, you ask for three attributes:

    Ability to communicate effectively, self motivated, flexible and works well under deadlines.

Self-starter, entrepreneurial or freelancing type person who is going into an incomplete team and will need to deliver a lot to satisfy.

    Advanced knowledge in HTML, CSS and Javascript with in-depth knowledge of DOM
    3rd Party API Integration ( Twitter, Facebook , Maps, etc.)
    Experience with jQuery
    SVN and QA tools.

Advanced development chops.

    Well-versed in design and concept development
    Advanced knowledge of responsive design for mobile
    Knowledge of tools /apps such as Adobe Creative Suite

Understanding and advanced knowledge of design, including using tools most front-end developers do not ever touch.

Not trying to be rude here, but it seems to me your job ad was probably asking too much in one person. I've been a full-stack developer for ~10 years, computer science PhD, work with a designer at my current startup, and I wouldn't have felt qualified. Maybe I'm misreading it, but maybe that's why you didn't get the applicants you wanted?

dbecker• 14 years ago

95% of companies want to hire exclusively from the most talented 5% of the labor pool.

It's understandable, but we shouldn't be surprised that not everyone can succeed at that.

chrisbennet• 14 years ago

I agree that a large percentage of companies say they want to hire from the top 5%. However, from what I've seen, their HR departments seem hell bent on eliminating anyone exceptional.

They want a bargain (ask them if they also expect to pay in the top 5 percentile), a college degree and experience with exactly the technology they have now.

Hiring well is hard

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