Show HN: SportsChimp: If Zynga and Bet365 had a love child.

by nav • 14 years ago

32 50 14 years ago

boglin3• 14 years ago

Really liked the concept. Is it legal though?

weego• 14 years ago

As it uses virtual currency in the game the ability to win as a disconnected outcome is a bit of a grey area, but should be fine if done correctly in that betting is not illegal in itself, it is the processing of payments of US$ on wagers that is illegal.

There will be more and more of these games as companies who don't wish to get effectively blacklisted from publishing and marketing in the US once real money gambling apps become legal position themselves for market share of the faux betting space so then can switch it up when/if the legalities are changed.

boglin3• 14 years ago

smart move!

andyakb• 14 years ago

I know this is old, but this just isnt true. The betting itself for poker is not illegal, but the processing of payments is likely to be [there are arguments against this that havent been tested in court]. The wire act explicitly bans wagering on sporting events, regardless of any processing of payments.

analog4• 14 years ago

Using the logos of the sports organisations is probably infringing copyright.

Whether or not the gambling bit is legal would depend on where the company is based, but then again it's Zynga's love child, you wouldn't expect everything to be above board would you?

Jare• 14 years ago

They are based in Delhi.

delinka• 14 years ago

s/copyright/trademark/

And it's possible this is not infringement. But it could still land them with C&D letters or answering a court filing.

The legality of gambling is dependent where their users are located. If it's illegal to gamble in Virginia, then users of the site in Virginia get into trouble for gambling or Virginia tries to get the site closed down (or maybe blocked by ISPs in VA.) But since they're using fake currency and not paying out in real USD, they'll probably be just fine.

Tipzntrix• 14 years ago

Yeah, I got a bad feeling when I saw that this company would purposely associate themselves with Zynga. Something does feel quite off. I have no comment on the legality, but I get the feeling a whole new demographic is going to be sucked into "clicking cows" or betting against their friends and spamming their walls. To top it off, you can only log in with Facebook ATM.

ad93611• 14 years ago

What does B$ mean? Maybe there should be a FAQ

citricsquid• 14 years ago

"BANANA BUCKS", their virtual currency.

rahulnb• 14 years ago

finally an app that simplifies sports picking!

abhishekmgupta• 14 years ago

it never was so simple, thx guys!!!!

roadmojo• 14 years ago

Like the UI. Not sure if its legal.

aab1d• 14 years ago

Love it this is simple!

tomasien4• 14 years ago

As someone who founded a startup that navigated the legal boundaries of an over-regulated industry, I may suggest that the founders may find comments that say "not sure if this is legal" a little annoying. I doubt they put their blood sweat and tears into this without going at least as far as they could to determine whether they could legally do this.

Now, "I've done something similar and here is what I ran into" or "I'm an expert and here's what you're up against" - now that's constructive.

tomasien4• 14 years ago

I seriously can not tell you how many times someone in Virginia went to thecityswig.com and then was like "awesome, but did you know ABC in Virginia has strict laws?" - No, I spent a year building this and it never occurred to me.

So maybe I'm just projecting, but I would find those comments annoying.

rudimk• 14 years ago

I second tomasien on that.

objclxt• 14 years ago

Actually, I'm really surprised they got permission from all the sports leagues to use their trademarks and not have to put some small print in crediting them. You don't get to use the Premier League logo, for example, without a licence.

(to answer your second point, I've done a lot of work in the sports area, so use of league and team logos is something I'm fairly up on).

tomasien4• 14 years ago

There you go! That's what I'm talking about!

rprasad3• 14 years ago

I'm really surprised as well, as several of those leagues do not allow sportsbooks to use their logos, especially the MLB, which has had several betting scandals in the past.

The NFL also do not grant license requests to use its logo to sportsbook; only certain business partners (and their subsidiaries) may use the NFL logo in association with a sportsbook offering.

analog4• 14 years ago

By that token we would assume that anything that takes any effort is legal.

You can argue if something should be legal or not and that's a fair debate, but some people are concerned if something is legal or not, and they have a right to ask that question.

Personally I wouldn't use the site because they're using the logos of well known sports organisations, and I presume they're doing this without their knowledge or approval. It's maybe not a big deal but it's enough for me not to trust them with my data.

tomasien4• 14 years ago

We should just assume "not sure if this is legal" is not constructive unless we know something they should know, then we should OFFER that information

rprasad3• 14 years ago

I would agree with you, but for several, very crucial facts:

1) The use of logos without permission. Some of these leagues do not allow the use of their logos in connection with betting. That alone suggests they did not put much research into the legal and business environment they are trying to play in.

2) The website. Are you really going to tell me that a startup which has managed to land licensing agreements with all of those leages can't do better than a website my mother could create in 10 minutes? The lack of effort in the website--the point of first impression of most of their customers--strongly suggests a lack of effort in other areas.

3) Show HN. A startup in this field, somehow snatching up licenses to some of the most popular, heavily betted leagues...and the first we've heard about it is on Show HN? No TechCrunch, no WSJ, no Gambling News, no nothing. No details on the team, on the investors, on anything.

Tomasien, you have a legitimate gripe. But the people behind this website have clearly not done their homework.

Ryan_Shmotkin• 14 years ago

I am lost.. can't understand how to use it at all.

Very nice graphics but UX is terrible

zackyap• 14 years ago

I have to agree with this. I don't understand what each button does or what I have to do to play or win. Nice UI though.

nav2• 14 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7... ; let me know if that helps.

fredoliveira• 14 years ago

I'm quite confused. From their legal page:

To use SportsChimp, you must be at least 18 years old and a resident of the United States. By using SportsChimp, you represent and warrant that you are least 18 years old and a resident of the United States.

Isn't this weird? Not only are they saying it's illegal to use this from outside the US, it is inside the US where they'll have the most trouble making this work. These terms were probably lifted from some app/service where they made sense.

mtjl79• 14 years ago

I highly doubt these terms were lifted from another app/service.

I believe the goal of this app is Sportbook related - but with a twist: it's a game right now. But I see people being upgraded to a "game for fun" to as a "Look how much money you can make if this was real money." Like Zynga Poker - but the end goal isn't you buying more Zynga poker chips to play for fun, but rather bet real money on sports.

No idea who is behind this, but I wouldn't be surprised if a Sportsbook in Costa Rica, UK or Europe is bankrolling/investing in this. The Sportbook industry is declining each year as less and less people are gambling on sports as it seems the 20-30 year olds aren't as interested as the generations before them. This is a great way to create a new generation of sport gamblers.

My 2 cents.

gearoidoc2• 14 years ago

When I saw Ashton Kutcher in the demo image it made me think that this was his latest venture - but I can't find any mention of him investing in this on Google. Thus I feel I cant trust the company behind this. No trust = no signup.

boglin3• 14 years ago

Not all of Kutcher's investments are public ... just saying

gearoidoc2• 14 years ago

Yep for sure, but the appearance of Mila Kunis and Fez from That 70's Show too increases my skepticism.

I don't think its a coincidence that Kutcher is the "main user" in the demo either...

ketna• 14 years ago

What sound do chimps make? Kerching. Simple.

nav2• 14 years ago

View Demo: http://blog.sportschimp.com/post/33361582535/sportschimp-dem...

Legality:

No buy-in using your credit card. No independent wagers on a specific match-up.

creativityhurts• 14 years ago

I don't think it's good marketing to associate your business with Zynga nowadays.

steve8918• 14 years ago

I don't think an app based on likely illegal use of copyrights/trademarks is something that is sustainable.

My guess is that people may be able to transfer money into accounts, but if this app get shutdown, customers may lose some or all of their money.

manish_gill• 14 years ago

You don't have to use buy-in using real money in order to play. Right now, the app is only using a virtual currency, which can be translated into real winnings.

shalintj• 14 years ago

This is so cool.. Using it... loving it... Thanks guys...

anikendra• 14 years ago

Quite interesting concept. Do you guys give real money?

matznerd• 14 years ago

Reminds me of a friend's app http://www.sportspickerapp.com/

vikramhaer• 14 years ago

Tried using it on a Nexus 7, some frustrating issues with UI because it aligns off to the right instead of taking up the full screen, and some elements are off the page so not clickable. Might want to try it on different tablets?

Looks really interesting but will rely heavily on getting people to invite friends and be actively involved, not sure what's going to make it sticky...

johncullington2• 14 years ago

Interesting .... Anyone know who's behind this?

johncullington2• 14 years ago

I like the fact there are no information overload. No odds, no team streaks etc. this is dumb down version. Super!

benrpeters• 14 years ago

I have a similar app (http://pickmoto.com) for iPhone and iPad. It's clear that we can't legally use the logos without a license. But of course the leagues aren't going to pay attention to indie developers until they are genuine threats. At that point, maybe you could afford to pay for the license or work something out.

We decided against risking it with logos because Apple could yank us at a moment's notice even if we made it into the Store. And considering that some of the best selling apps are developed by the Leagues, we imagine Apple would be pretty quick to act if the Leagues asked.

So instead, we're using pennants without logos. Not ideal, but safer.

jwildman77• 14 years ago

I found this app before the season started. I've been playing it with some friends of mine and it's a lot of fun, you did a great job!

rprasad3• 14 years ago

> But of course the leagues aren't going to pay attention to indie developers until they are genuine threats.

The NFL and MLB have very litigious IP counsel, who are kept on retainer and paid very generous amounts of money solely to police for unlicensed uses of their trademarks. In all likelihood, they've already got a cease-and-desist for sportschimp working up right now.

shocks• 14 years ago

This looks really awesome. I'm quite excited about this! I'm very interested in betting and this looks like I could have a lot of fun!

Shame I'll never use it, because I don't have Facebook.

slaroia• 14 years ago

Love this simple interface...Great way to interact with friends and sports simultaneously...amazing service

shankarmahesh• 14 years ago

Nice UI and very simple to play. Love it

Show HN: SportsChimp: If Zynga and Bet365 had a love child.

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