Employee commits suicide after MongoDB fired her during mental health leave

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/gsurman_our-beloved-irreplaceable-daughter-annie-activity-7407842359826120704-kFaq

by canucker2016 • 7 months ago

283 63 7 months ago

linkedin.com

4d4m• 7 months ago

This is sad, and if true as presented a big suit for MongoDB

simmerup• 7 months ago

Really quite nasty of the company.

aeternum• 7 months ago

Sad.

And perhaps a controversial take but consider the counterfactual: Should it be illegal to fire employees that recent took mental health leave? Get a bad review or put on a PIP? It's already becoming a common strategy to immediately take mental health/sick leave.

rexpop• 7 months ago

If neither option satisfies, we must go up the stack. There is something seriously wrong with a society that drives educated, productive adults to suicide.

mc322• 7 months ago

The US is somewhere in the middle, right there with some European countries. It's hard to say what drives people over the edge. Surprisingly Uruguay is high up there but Uganda, Ghana and Colombia are low.

Spivak• 7 months ago

Yes. This is The Family and Medical Leave Act.

An employer is prohibited from discriminating or retaliating against an employee or prospective employee for having exercised or attempted to exercise any FMLA right.

You can fire someone after they come back but you will need to show receipts. Your employer also doesn't pay you when you take that leave so it would be a strange way to game the system.

spit2wind• 7 months ago

Sounds like the kind of thing a union or works counsil could help with: enforcing a fair policy. That and revisiting the concept of at-will employment.

Aaargh20318• 7 months ago

Should it be illegal to fire employees that recent took mental health leave?

In civilized countries it is illegal to fire someone on sick leave, and I highly doubt you’d get a permit to fire someone who just got back from sick leave.

mc322• 7 months ago

I know people who upon getting put into a PIP took a mental health leave as it took them over the PIP time horizon. The mileage you get from this will vary on organization —some won’t want the reputational hit, others won’t care though.

lovich• 7 months ago

Should it be illegal to fire employees that recent took mental health leave?

Yes, at least for companies the size of MongoDB

Didn't need much ruminating to come to that answer, but I lack the sociopathic behaviors necessary to run a corporation in the American legal environment.

calmbonsai• 7 months ago

Yes. This is already the case in the E.U. and Australia.

Depending on the nature of the leave, this could've also been unlawful in the U.S. due to the Family Leave Act.

no_wizard2• 7 months ago

Better way to look at it: why are people so afraid of losing their job, and how do we reasonably remove the fear of losing one? Denmark may provide some good guidance here, as they have a good balance between social welfare and protections and fostering a robust business environment

Anamon• 7 months ago

I suspect a major way for the U.S. would be the one mentioned in the article: make it so that losing your job doesn't mean losing your health insurance. That's a major additional stressor, particularly if someone loses their job because of an illness.

Of course, there's about a negative one thousand percent chance of something like that passing in the current political climate.

emerongi2• 7 months ago

It's already becoming a common strategy

I've taken mental health leave (not due to a PIP) and my productivity before and after was significantly different. It was great for my employer that I took it. I'm quite sure I would've eventually ended up with a PIP if I hadn't taken it sooner myself, and the best remedy on a PIP would have been to take mental health leave. Not as a strategy as such, but literally because it would have been the best solution (and I think the only one).

roryirvine• 7 months ago

Yes, exactly. Taking mental health leave should be seen as a positive step: an opportunity to overcome whatever difficulties you've been facing, leading to - amongst many other benefits - better performance at work.

Mental health problems are tricky; they tend to creep up on us gradually, and often some form of external trigger is needed in order to prompt us to seek help. So it shouldn't be at all surprising that an employee in receipt of a PIP might take mental health leave as part of a genuine effort to improve their situation.

gp's cynical "counterfactual" suggests that they view PIPs as being purely a sham, intended to always result in dismissal rather than improved performance. Now, that might occasionally be true - but we should be blaming the abusive employer (who is likely acting outside the law) in that situation, not the employee.

ModernMech• 7 months ago

Here's another controversial take: as long as healthcare is tied to employment, companies shouldn't be allowed to fire someone except for actual negligence / malice. If they suck at their job, find them another one at the company -- there has to be something they can do in a company of 5k employees.

bdangubic5• 7 months ago

this is too radical even for china or like good ol USSR… damn dude :)

arielcostas• 7 months ago

On the other hand, it may end up the other way: pressure you or bully you into quitting yourself. Here in Spain it happens sometimes: firing you is expensive and they don't want you around for whatever issue, so they'll try to find any justification to fire you, or just pressure you in some way on another to make you miserable enough to quit. No doubt that would happen in the US.

knowitnone32• 7 months ago

so you'll take janitorial after your SWE job? if yes, the go for it but what happens you become disgruntled because you're no longer getting paid the same? You think it wise to keep a disgruntled employee?

array_key_first• 7 months ago

There will always be people who abuse the system, no matter what system you have.

The solution is not to burn down all systems and just wild west everything. No. The solution is to anticipate the fraud, and build it into your margins and planning. Recognize it will always happen. And, in fact, the optimal amount of fraud is never zero. Because preventing fraud, too, has a cost, and it grows exponentially.

tpm• 7 months ago

Should it be illegal to fire employees that recent took mental health leave?

It's not legal to fire an employee on a sick leave in our country. They have to come back to work and then you can fire them. The employer is not paying their wage during the sick leave anyway, they get money from the social and health insurances. So there is very little downside for the company to keeping the employee employed. And if they employee is somehow faking it, that's an issue to check for the insurance companies.

It's already becoming a common strategy to immediately take mental health/sick leave.

Maybe the companies should ask themselves very hard why this is happening.

kderbyma• 7 months ago

I think the Head of HR should face legal repercussions and have a full audit. I guarantee you that they have committed other crimes....

innocentoldguy• 7 months ago

I feel sorry for this woman. Meta did this to me because they're discriminatory dicks, so I know how she felt. Fortunately, I have a tremendous amount of family support.

fortran77• 7 months ago

I’m not sure about third party responsibility for suicide. It’s a horrible, tragic situation.

no_wizard2• 7 months ago

If you believe a person can drive another person suicide through how they act, I don’t see how this would be any different, especially since they both rely on power asymmetry. If we don’t want to hook MongoDB responsible in some manner than we need to remove that asymmetry

Dracophoenix• 7 months ago

Define "drive". Correlation is not causation. It's difficult to anticipate the trigger for a particular action or choice when other circumstances or stressors may have more significant factors that contributed to the decision. After all, many have lost jobs without ending their own lives and many have killed themselves despite high-profile, gainful employment. Instead, holding MongoDB responsible risks incentivizing this company and others to turn away and preemptively furlough anyone remotely approaching the statistical profile of a suicide risk.

joecool1029• 7 months ago

I don't know legally how it works, but my gut says if this is found to be a wrongful termination under state/local/FMLA, then it also stands to reason that this could also be a wrongful death. From 1960, but it covers this line of thinking wrt suicide: https://digitalcommons.law.buffalo.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a...

Anyway here's the actual complaint (I read it after I wrote the above), I guess her parents/counsel thought the same thing: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docInde...

ivraatiems2• 7 months ago

Thank you for finding this, really helpful. I checked PACER and didn't realize it was filed in state court instead.

The complaint is speaking and it is aggressively written and, to my non-lawyer mind, pretty well drafted. If I were Mongo, I would be trying aggressively to settle this and make it go away.

If I were the parents, I would be trying very hard to force any other outcome, preferably one where Mongo pays the biggest public relations price possible for what they've done, assuming the allegations are true.

The way Mongo answers the complaint will be really instructive in figuring out how they intend to play this, and in whether they think there is some explanation that will make this seem less dire.

eapressoandcats• 7 months ago

Unfortunately, it’s not as strong a case as you’d think. One of three cases has to be true: either she was disabled and unable to work, disabled but able to fulfill job duties, or not disabled at all.

In the first case Mongo can likely fire her once FMLA is up (notice that the termination is 12 weeks after she started leave). Disabilities aren’t protected if they leave you unable to perform job duties, which is what Mongo will claim. Notice how the complaint tries to say additional leave is “reasonable accommodation”. Mongo will claim not working at all means you’re not fulfilling job duties and that she used up her FMLA.

In theory if you become unable to do your job due to disability you should get disability insurance, which is mandatory in NY, but it sounds like Prudential rejected the claim, hence the letter from the doctor there.

In the latter two cases, then Mongo will claim that she could come back to work and asking her to was not violating any ADA laws, and that they would have been willing to make e.g. scheduling accommodations for any treatments and so on to accommodate a disability that doesn’t prevent her from fulfilling core job duties.

ivraatiems2• 6 months ago

(For anyone looking now, the case has been removed to federal court for the moment. Caption "Surman, by and through the Administrators of her Estate, Gregory Surman and Karen Connolly et al v. MONGODB, INC.", 2026cv00166 in SDNY.)

yearolinuxdsktp• 7 months ago

If you’re doing a restructuring of the company, i.e. mass layoffs, you’re allowed to do it regardless. In some states FMLA/PFMLA a company is automatically presumed a retaliation firing if it’s done within 6 months and the onus is on the company to prove it wasn’t—-the mass layoff is the cover, and large companies know it.

However, the fact that they cancelled her health insurance a week before returning and demanded she returned on a certain date or she’d be terminated despite a demonstrated disability, that’s pretty whack and might be hard to defend as company-wide restructuring.

xvxvx• 7 months ago

From their site: 'Employee mental health and wellbeing is another core focus at MongoDB. It’s important for us to help break the stigma around mental health and provide our employees with the support they need, especially at work. We are dedicated to providing our employees with valuable tools to face all of life’s challenges and offer mental health programs that provide confidential assistance from qualified professionals.'

https://www.mongodb.com/company/blog/culture/employee-benefi...

Never trust this horseshit!

emerongi2• 7 months ago

All public culture documents are bullshit. It always comes down to your direct manager and what they believe in.

nineteen999• 7 months ago

And whether they have stones or not, or whether their manager is a bully, and so on and so on ...

citizenpaul• 7 months ago

I worked at a smallish startup where on the wall behind reception in huge raised letters. The owner had installed "company values" like trust accountability, ect. It was referred to internally as the "wall of lies" rather thab reception or lobby. The owner was a total sociopath.

strix_mahalo• 7 months ago

"Employee mental health and wellbeing is another core focus at MongoDB"

Loophole. Fire them, they're not employees, we don't have to care about them.

betaby• 7 months ago

Elephant in the room is that the healthcare is tied to the employment.

DabbyDabberson• 7 months ago

They are entitled to COBRA

spl7572• 7 months ago

Cobra is great if you have a lot of money, because it's still expensive.

0xbadc0de5• 7 months ago

This is sad and tragic but ultimately I don't think Mongo bares any responsibility here. If her partner left her while she was having a prolonged mental health crisis, would her partner be to blame for her suicide? I would argue: no.

ffsm8• 7 months ago

I'm not American, and neither am I a lawyer, but the elephant in the room is that the workplace is responsible for health insurance, hence terminating her effectively removes her ability to get treatment, too.

Especially in this context, where she asked for at least a minor extension to finish her treatment.

I suspect the parents have a solid chance of winning this because the health insurance is linked, otherwise I'd completely agree with your opinion. An employer shouldn't be responsible for mothering their employees. It creates perverse incentives on both sides of the contract

jostylr• 7 months ago

Why shouldn't her medical providers be responsible for continuing critical health care regardless of payment? Why is it on the employer who is only tangentially related to this versus the people actually charging large sums of money for medically necessary treatment?

Also, the same health insurance can be continued after termination (with some external payment, of course) in addition to medicaid probably being available. None of that may be easy for someone with mental issues to navigate, but that is systematic.

As for the minor extension, is it clear how long she was on leave and what the conversation had been before the termination? The post said that they asked for small time extension, but did not give any indication as to what was happening before, neither length of time employed before taking the leave, what caused the leave, what was said in terms of a return, how long the absence was, etc. I feel like plugging in different answers for those questions would change how I feel about the culpability of the company in the current legal regime.

Rastonbury• 7 months ago

How did that ever get approved? The person who wanted them fired is an asshole, that's given but this is multiple failures. So sad. It's just one employee let them take their leave, it's not worth the legal and now PR repercussions

canucker2016• 7 months ago

from NY Post, https://nypost.com/2025/12/27/us-news/nyc-woman-driven-to-su...

  But on Sept. 13, 2024, she attempted suicide again with the same lethal drug “citing the shame she felt at being fired by MongoDB,”  according to the lawsuit.

  Surman apparently regretted the decision and called 911 herself — but died on the way to the hospital.

  Mongo later backtracked on an offer to retrieve Annie’s life insurance policy for the family, who believe the company fired Annie right before a mass layoff to avoid paying her severance, according to the suit.

MongoDB's behaviour just seems more and more callous...

rafaelgoncalves• 7 months ago

so sad, hope the family get some kind of closure (never will be enough with an lost life)

knowitnone32• 7 months ago

"right before a mass layoff to avoid paying her severance" if that was the case, wouldn't they have done that for everybody in order to avoid severance pay? Also , according to the Labor Board, "There is no requirement in the FLSA for severance pay. Severance pay is a matter of agreement between an employer and an employee (or the employee's representative)." So if they didn't want to pay a severance, they didn't have to. Her parents failed her more than anybody and they are only trying to turn her into a paycheck.

pm90• 7 months ago

This is incredibly sad. From the complaint (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46405847):

""" When she arrived at the hospital and learned that Annie had died, Ms. Connolly collapsed and screamed non-stop for hours. Hospital staff placed Ms. Connolly in a separate room for observation, and the doctor who declared Annie dead had to speak to other family members about what had occurred because Ms. Connolly could not bear to speak to him or to see Annie’s body. 88. Mr. Surman was alone in the back of a taxi to the airport when he received the call that Annie had died. He could hear his wife’s screams in the background while he was helpless to comfort her. He sobbed through his redeye flight to join Ms. Connolly.

"""

Reading the complaint, I don't see any way in which the company is not responsible for this. The about turn in requiring her to come back in couple of weeks or else be terminated is just cruel. Now, I know what companies can be like, and especially if they're doing layoffs, things can get quite bonkers. But ultimately, the responsibility rests with the company: like it or not, an employer in America is responsible for their healthcare, which means you need to be careful when dealing with what happens when you suddenly end it.

spl7572• 7 months ago

Corporations are drivin solely by increasing profits for shareholders. Anything else is just for show or compliance with law, and even that is rare because the fine is almost always miniscule in the grand scheme of things.

mongo_throwaway• 7 months ago

This is incredibly heartbreaking. I was fired from MongoDB after experiencing mental health problems, and HR as well as my manager were incredibly callous while I tried to navigate the accommodations process. Did not have a chance to take medical leave before I was summarily PIPed. It has taken me years to recover mentally. In the months afterwards, there were many points at which I was close to committing suicide. I hope the family is able to get closure, and I hope MongoDB loses in court.

Employee commits suicide after MongoDB fired her during mental health leave

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