Metro Apps Can Only Be Distributed Through Windows Store

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_store/will-windows-8-allow-developers-to-post-metro-apps/9f28242b-4943-4ca2-bf63-d6f9b3a5b35f

by k-mcgrady • 14 years ago

71 108 14 years ago

answers.microsoft.com

k-mcgrady3• 14 years ago

I was surprised to read this. I assumed that Windows 8 only contained the 'desktop' to give developers time to convert their apps to work on metro and that Microsoft would deprecate the desktop in Windows 9 or 10. If they did do that Windows would become a closed platform. With this restriction in Windows 8 Windows is seemingly more closed than OS X. Apple restricts certain features like iCloud to App Store apps but restricting apps from using the main UI on your OS is another matter.

facorreia3• 14 years ago

Microsoft is obsessed about backward compatibility. They have to be to continue being the dominant force in the corporate market. They won't even have a choice not to support desk-top style apps for the next 20 years, even if at some point they will run in some kind of virtualized environment.

niggler2• 14 years ago

Funny thing: lots of businesses still use windows XP. Backward compatibility is nice but running XP is much better than hoping stuff will work on windows 7 or 8. 20 years from now I wouldnt be surprised to see XP still used ...

y0ghur7_xxx2• 14 years ago

I think Apples long term plan is the same: make a closed ecosystem on the Desktop exactly like the one on iOS. There is no incentive that I can see for them to keep it open. It worked well on mobile, why not do the same on the desktop?

But of course it's only speculation at this point.

MatthewPhillips11• 14 years ago

How will one develop apps in such an environment?

mtgx• 14 years ago

That sounds like a pretty scary future where one can only use "pre-approved" apps from a couple of entities like Microsoft or Apple. Android will remain the only open system from this point of view (Linux, too, but it's not very popular with consumers right now).

Sure people will still jailbreak stuff in the future, but making jailbreaking illegal is just one bill away. If you remember, that almost happened about 2 years ago, but fortunately a lot of people protested against it that time.

tonyedgecombe2• 14 years ago

I wouldn't be surprised to see IOS devices canabalise the desktop and laptop markets over time. My guess is Apple would be quite happy with this.

briandear• 14 years ago

Apple has no intent to lock down their OS.

k-mcgrady3• 14 years ago

I'm not sure about that. With the way they've built gatekeeper it seems they might eventually set that to only allow installation of store apps by default but make it easy to turn off.

unicornporn• 14 years ago

You should really check out Cory Doctorow's "The coming war on general-purpose computing": http://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html http://boingboing.net/2011/12/27/the-coming-war-on-general-p...

and: http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/civilwar.html

gnaffle• 14 years ago

While I'm worried about this happening eventually, I think Gatekeeper is a sign of the opposite. If Apples intentions were to make it like iOS, they wouldn't have bothered introducing that, they would have pushed everyone into the App Store instead.

MatthewPhillips11• 14 years ago

I think it will be more along the lines with how they got rid of DOS. The command prompt still exists, it's just hidden away. You can't exit windows to dos like you used to be able to do.

Same thing will happen with the desktop. Today on the Metro start screen the desktop has a first-row tile but I imagine eventually it will have no tile and you'll have to search for it. Effectively making it not exist for the common user.

But Microsoft is still investing a lot of money in desktop software. Not user-facing software. But much of their code assumes more capabilities than what WinRT allows. All of the developer tools, for example. Think about a memory diagnostic tools, that is of course impossible in WinRT. Powershell is impossible in WinRT.

mbell5• 14 years ago

> I think it will be more along the lines with how they got rid of DOS. The command prompt still exists, it's just hidden away. You can't exit windows to dos like you used to be able to do.

DOS isn't a command prompt its an operating system. DOS wasn't 'hidden away' its gone. Windows 3.1 was really just a GUI running on top of MS-DOS. 95, 98, and ME used MS-DOS as a bootloader to get windows running, basically flipping the CPU into protected mode then handing it over to windows. The WinNT family wasn't built on top of DOS at all but rather has a standalone kernal. DOS programs were only supported by a virtual machine (and aren't supported at all in 64bit windows, DOS is completely gone there).

I don't see much connection at all between DOS and Metro, Metro is just a UI.

abrowne• 14 years ago

A visual version of a similar analogy: http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2012/09/09/progress/

powertower• 14 years ago

> I assumed that Windows 8 only contained the 'desktop' to give developers time to convert their apps to work on metro and that Microsoft would deprecate the desktop in Windows 9 or 10.

Where did you get this idea from?

The Desktop is here to stay, because it's the only way to run real applications that need a bit more than touch gestures.

Let me help you out...

Metro -> For Consumers (silly games, twitter, browsing internet, and buying shit)

Desktop -> For Producers (VS.NET, Office, dev and server stuff, real applications, etc)

Windows 8 basically is one OS for both Tablets and PCs. That's all there is to it.

WayneDB3• 14 years ago

I think the idea comes from observing Microsoft's own behavior:

- They foist the Metro UI on you by starting your "desktop" OS directly to that new UI as if to say "not only is this new UI not going away, but we're going to force you to look at it."

- It's all they can talk about, within the realm of UI tech.

- When Microsoft finds a new thing to talk about, they stop talking about the old things and the old things simply die off or at the very least, receive very little new development.

So, the idea that Windows 8 only contains the desktop to give developers time to convert their apps to work on metro may not be very far from the truth.

Aaronontheweb4• 14 years ago

Former Micrsoftie (left in August) and founder of a startup that exclusively targets Win8 developers here. There's some FUD here that I need to clear up.

1. All Metro / Windows Store apps have to be distributed through the Windows Store for mass distribution - that much is true. There are good reasons for this - namely it saves you the trouble of having to write installers for three separate hardware architectures (ARM, X86, X64) and makes it comparatively low-friction to distribute your app compared to traditional desktop applications.

2. It's pretty easy to side-load applications on a one-to-one basis for developers who are running non-ARM devices; you can package an app automatically from Visual Studio with a self-install PowerShell script and installing an app is as easy as emailing someone a zip file with the app package + install script. This was how we tested apps among distributed teams internally at Microsoft and how all of the early third-party developers did it. I only did this on X64 devices so I'm not sure if there's support for X86 and I'm pretty sure ARM doesn't support this.

3. Enterprises have the ability to create their own bolt-on to the app store using Active Directory to ensure that all of their employees can get access to private, line-of-business Metro apps that they don't want exposed in the public app store.

4. Traditional desktop applications, non-Metro ones, can still be distributed the old fashioned way. My previous employer before Microsoft has no plans to put its desktop software in the Windows Store and frankly I don't think it will affect them much.

For the desktop, look at Metro as a way to have some content-focused apps and games that come to life directly on your desktop through live tiles. Don't look at them as replacements for heavy-weight, traditional desktop applications. That's not their point.

Windows isn't going to be a closed platform - if anything Metro makes Windows more accessible to a larger number of developers. Shipping a traditional desktop application is an epic pain in the ass compared to shipping a Metro-style app. Metro makes it a lot easier for most developers to sell native apps on Windows.

antidoh2• 14 years ago

"Metro makes it a lot easier for most developers to sell native apps on Windows."

As long as Microsoft approves your app.

I want my politically incorrect apps, full of boobs, farts, surveillance evading tools and bomb-making instructions.

MatthewPhillips11• 14 years ago

Thanks for commenting here.

> For the desktop, look at Metro as a way to have some content-focused apps and games that come to life directly on your desktop through live tiles. Don't look at them as replacements for heavy-weight, traditional desktop applications. That's not their point.

I don't think Microsoft has communicated this at all. I don't think there is any definitive statement that the desktop is not being deprecated, and will continue to exist and be developed for.

tammer2• 14 years ago

Thanks for the info. The bit about enterprise-specific stores is new to me, and sounds like a damn good idea.

Working with Apple and therefore being forced to go through the public store for everything creates more problems than it solves.

WayneDB3• 14 years ago

> Windows isn't going to be a closed platform - if anything Metro makes Windows more accessible to a larger number of developers.

If I have to go through Microsoft to get a Metro app onto Windows, then at the very least...the platform is partially closed.

Besides that, I think that many, many people already consider Windows a closed platform (I certainly do), so I guess it depends on your definition of "closed".

callahad• 14 years ago

> There are good reasons for this - namely it saves you the trouble of having to write installers for three separate hardware architectures (ARM, X86, X64) and makes it comparatively low-friction to distribute your app compared to traditional desktop applications.

That is a convenience of using the app store. That is not a good reason to lock out other channels. Nothing intrinsic to either option necessitates making them mutually exclusive.

jimbobimbo3• 14 years ago

"Shipping a traditional desktop application is an epic pain in the ass compared to shipping a Metro-style app."

No, it's not. Desktop software installation and update packaging is a solved problem. On top of it... Multitude hosting and payment processing providers to choose from, nobody puts any restrictions on whether your app aligns with store owner's overall strategy, how/whether you can process payments outside the store, better margins, etc. "Ease of discovery" is overrated: maybe store makes it easier for big partners to be more prominent, but the more it grows the more it becomes just another silo, and you still must do your own legwork to market your app, making 25-30% cut look even worse. So, yeah, Windows does take a route to become more closed platform.

brudgers• 14 years ago

The notion of Microsoft getting rid of the desktop in favor of a locked down OS which only allows applications which running in sandboxes will make sense when Visual Studio is converted to do so.

Or to put it another way, don't expect Microsoft to change the dogfood's dog food's to something they cannot eat. As a corollary, Windows 8 applications and RT devices will be suitable for the sorts of corporate tasks non-programmers at Microsoft perform in the course of their work.

TazeTSchnitzel3• 14 years ago

I thought this was common knowledge. Yes, they are only distributable through the store. Yes, the only sideloading is from Visual Studio. Anyone who's spent a little time researching Windows 8 will probably already know this.

eckyptang2• 14 years ago

This is correct and very common knowledge. However traditional apps can be linked from the store and regularly are already so no one is missing out.

omegant2• 14 years ago

How do you do that? So can still install the software you want on windows 8 or you need to go through store each time?

luchs• 14 years ago

You can continue to install your things just the way you did in previous Windows versions.

mkup• 14 years ago

Microsoft has protected itself from the next Netscape Navigator. Now every software vendor for Metro/WinRT is effectively running a market research for Microsoft: what feature should be included to the next version of Windows? And after adsorbtion of that feature, third party app can be kicked out off the MS app store.

The golden age of Windows shareware and ISVs is coming to the end.

Or we will use Windows 7 for 20 years as we did with XP for 10 years from its release date.

silverbax882• 14 years ago

There are still corporations running XP and only now considering a move to Windows 7. They ignored Vista entirely, and they will do the same with Windows 8.

jman1• 14 years ago

Why is this surprising?

nsmartt3• 14 years ago

Does it need to be surprising?

tonetheman2• 14 years ago

Pretty sure they are just doing what Apple is already doing. Apple's really closed and locked down platform is doing great, I am sure Microsoft is wanting to emulate them.

If you reading this post on an IPad or your iphone or your mac book pro, you have already voted on the closed platform and how much you love it with your wallet. So get over it.

prof_hobart• 14 years ago

The MacBook Pro is not a closed platform yet. I can still create and distribute Mac apps in any medium that I feel like. On Mountain Lion, the default security options may make it a little more difficult to exectute apps that have neither been distributed via Apple nor signed with them, but there are entirely official ways of getting round this if needed.

I'm not saying that Apple won't go down this route for Mac at some point. But they have gone there yet.

aMacbook• 14 years ago

Please explain how a Macbook Pro is a closed platform.

tonetheman2• 14 years ago

Well I was really talking about the App Store. OSX and Windows both are going to have approved apps (the stuff you can get in their stores) then red headed step child apps that you get else where.

MBP are not closed exactly but they have the same model that everyone is bitching about for windows.

nsmartt3• 14 years ago

This is a failed view. Yes, they've voted with their wallets, but "get over it" isn't the appropriate response.

The appropriate response would be to point out that the time for change is here, and you pretty much have to start voting the other way if you're opposed to this direction.

wslh• 14 years ago

Going backwards. In some way Microsoft was more open in the desktop and the mobile (with the old windows mobile OS) than Apple.

Now all the vendors gave the opportunity to Microsoft to be more close. Now all behave like monopolies.

lttlrck• 14 years ago

"Now all behave like monopolies."

silverbax882• 14 years ago

I've read as much as I can about Windows 8, tried the preview, worked with a Windows phone.

Honestly, I can't see Windows 8 being anything but a colossal failure on the desktop, ala Vista. Everyone on the planet seems to be telling Microsoft to have two OS versions, one for mobile and one for desktop, but they are not listening. I would be seriously worried if I was a Microsoft investor, and I say that as a guy who's built primarily C# apps for the last five years.

devindra• 14 years ago

Well they still have two OS versions (although Windows Phone 8 now shares the Win 8 kernel). The real question is if Microsoft's long bet on tablets and touchscreen PCs being the future of desktops is a good one. For once, I think Microsoft is aiming big with its OS, and that's something to be admired. It's going to piss of techies, but it has a real shot at making tablets and hybrid PCs more useful for everyone else.

Also, it seems pretty clear to me that Win 7 is going to stick around for a long time, perhaps even longer than XP. That'll likely be the go-to OS for techies and people building desktops down the line.

recoiledsnake5• 14 years ago

Apple and Google view the tablet as an oversized phone, Microsoft views it as an undersized laptop or desktop. That's a philosophical difference right there.

The real test of Windows 8 will be on devices like the Surface Pro and other x86 tablets about to enter the market. Instead of being designed and used mostly as a consumption device like the iPad and Android tablets, you can run the full Visual Studio or Eclipse on them anywhere you go.

Microsoft hopes to leverage the sales of those and other touchscreen ultrabooks, laptops into apps and support for Windows RT.

If they made Metro run only on Windows RT tablets, it risks suffering the same fate as Windows Phone, a very nice platform with little uptake because of user and developer mindshare consumed by the iPad and Android tablets. From that perspective, Windows 8 make a lot of sense.

electic• 14 years ago

Please don't think this is bad. The more closed these guys get, the more of a window they open up for Linux Operating Systems or alternatives. Developers and consumers alike, will start taking a long hard look at their options.

recoiledsnake5• 14 years ago

Isn't this old news? Like a year old at this point? Why did anyone think Metro apps could be sideloaded except by enterprises?

Didn't we have long discussions on Hacker News about this very same topic from a year?

Article from a year ago:

http://venturebeat.com/2011/09/19/windows-metro-apps-distrib...

As to why they're doing it, it's simple. They want Metro to avoid headlines like these:

http://www.google.com/#q=android+malware&hl=en&prmd=...

Windows Store is a bit more open on things like in-app purchases(third party payment systems allowed) and developer cut(only 25% above 25K).

lazugod• 14 years ago

It's old news, but it's still a surprise to people.

sutro2• 14 years ago

Your first link from a year ago discusses how tablet apps on Windows RT - the ARM version of Win8 - will be restricted. Yes, that is old news. This statement that Metro apps on the flagship desktop version of Win 8 will also be restricted is news to me. Regarding your second point about malware, Microsoft is not doing this out of concern for the safety of their customers but rather to increase their own profits and control. But for PR and anti-trust-avoidance purposes, they will sell the loss of freedom as an increase in safety. It's the same bogus argument that overreaching governments use.

dantiberian• 14 years ago

There are many reasons why Microsoft would want to place restrictions on Metro app distribution but profit is not one of them. Apple's iTunes store is running at break even [0][1] so it seems unlikely to me that Microsoft would be able to make a significant profit in their Windows Store.

[0] http://www.asymco.com/2011/06/13/itunes-now-costs-1-3-billio...

[1] http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apple_app_store_runs_...

recoiledsnake5• 14 years ago

>Your first link from a year ago discusses how tablet apps on Windows RT - the ARM version of Win8 - will be restricted. Yes, that is old news. This statement that Metro apps on the flagship desktop version of Win 8 will also be restricted is news to me

Are we reading the same article here? That article explicitly states that Windows 8 Metro apps will be Store only. I hate to quote half the article but here it is:

>However, the company is creating a separate sets of rules for its “Metro-style” apps — apps that are optimized for touch screen devices but able to run on any Windows 8 machine.

>Microsoft is restricting the general distribution of Metro tablet apps — meaning all Metro apps must be downloaded through the new Windows Store. The only ones who get a pass on this restriction are developers and enterprise customers.

>The distribution of traditional desktop applications will remain the same, according to Microsoft.

>The move to force distribution of Metro apps through the Windows store is similar to Apple’s treatment of iPhone and iPad apps

Where is Windows RT or ARM even mentioned here?

>Microsoft is not doing this out of concern for the safety of their customers but rather to increase their own profits and control. But for PR and anti-trust-avoidance purposes, they will sell the loss of freedom as an increase in safety. It's the same bogus argument that overreaching governments use.

Citation needed. Anyway, this argument has gone moot in the discussions over the iOS app store. The bird has already flown and Apple can't keep its iOS devices in stock. That argument is a day late and a dollar short.

homosaur2• 14 years ago

Perhaps this IS old news, but I certainly didn't understand it if it was. So basically Windows is creating a two tier system where blessed developers can get access to key system functionality where others are left to the "legacy" desktop. Windows 7 will almost certainly be the final time that Windows get installed on one of my PCs.

With Steam coming out on Linux and shockingly even Apple having a more coherent idea about system security, I don't see a lot of reason to deal with Windows' legacy bullcrap anymore.

recoiledsnake5• 14 years ago

> So basically Windows is creating a two tier system where blessed developers can get access to key system functionality where others are left to the "legacy" desktop

It's actually kind of the other way around, desktop apps can mess around with much more on the system than Metro apps can, except for some new APIs.

> shockingly even Apple having a more coherent idea about system security

How so? What has system security to do with this? If anything, malware authors will have trouble running their malware on Windows RT tablets and in Metro.

k-mcgrady3• 14 years ago

>> "It's actually kind of the other way around, desktop apps can mess around with much more on the system than Metro apps can, except for some new APIs."

This may be true but the majority of Windows 8 users are probably going to want to use the new Metro interface. I've only being using the OS for a month and it already annoys me to have to switch to the old desktop interface. Preventing apps not distributed through the store access the new interface isn't right. Customers will want it and developers will have little choice. Either piss off customers or give Microsoft a cut of your sales and distribute through them.

nvrmor• 14 years ago

This is primarily why I hope win8 fails

Metro Apps Can Only Be Distributed Through Windows Store

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