Metabolic and cellular differences between sedentary and active individuals

https://howardluksmd.substack.com/p/if-youre-not-active-youre-sick-you

by rzk • 9 months ago

155 150 9 months ago

howardluksmd.substack.com

Study: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.08.19.608601v1....

JumpCrisscross• 9 months ago

Paper: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.08.19.608601v1....

andy99• 9 months ago

Probably a better link for the post, the current article appears to be an AI generated ad

pinkmuffinere3• 9 months ago

I do like the scientific paper, but not everyone wants to read a true paper. Can you point out specific deficiencies in the linked article, aside from it being simplified but more accessible?

Insanity2• 9 months ago

But how do you know if you exercise enough?

pinkmuffinere3• 9 months ago

+1. I surf occasionally, and go rock climbing a couple times a week. Compared to the "average American" I suspect I'm pretty active. Compared to other rock climbers and surfers, I'm probably relatively inactive. If I'm not concerned about improving at these hobbies, and just want 80% of the health benefit of being active, am I achieving it? Or am I still below?

Edit: From the linked paper:

'''

2.1 Subject Recruitment Nineteen male subjects ((41.9 ± 13.8 years; 82.6 ± 13.9 kg)) participated in this study and were assigned a research arm based upon meeting one of the following criteria related to physical activity:

- Sedentary (SED): n= 10. Does not perform exercise regularly or elevate heart rate outside of daily tasks

- Active (AC): n=10. Performs aerobic exercise for at least 150 minutes per week, and has at least a six-month history of doing so

'''

I bet that "Performs aerobic exercise for at least 150 minutes per week" is related to some standard advice (but I'm too lazy to confirm that. I guess that provides an easy measuring stick to decide if we're being 'active enough'

Insanity2• 9 months ago

I am in a similar boat as you. I go bouldering twice a week for about 2h per session, I swim once a week for 45 minutes, and I walk an hour each day during my commute.

But I would be interested to know how much this contributes to keeping me healthy.

justinator7• 9 months ago

Health is not the same as performance. You can have the former (sounds like you do to me), without the latter (but you're working on it -- what's the rush, going to the Olympics any time soon?).

The extreme of "performance" is rarely healthy.

solraph4• 9 months ago

The paper indicated the Active group has doing at least 150 minutes of moderate-intensity physical activity throughout the week, or 75 minutes of high intensity activity activity (matching WHO guidelines[0]), and have done so for at least six months.

Anecdotally, I and several other people have found smart watches good for keeping track of intensity minutes.

[0] https://www.who.int/initiatives/behealthy/physical-activity

pton_xd• 9 months ago

According to the linked paper [0]:

- Sedentary (SED): Does not perform exercise regularly or elevate heart rate outside of daily tasks

- Active (AC): Performs aerobic exercise for at least 150 minutes per week, and has at least a six-month history of doing so

A more comprehensive study that determines the optimal amount of exercise per week to achieve peak cellular function over a population would be quite interesting. Also, what about anaerobic exercises like weight lifting? What's the relative impact on metabolic function? Lots more to explore here!

[0] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.08.19.608601v1....

strken2• 9 months ago

I find this a bit confusing. If you're doing an hour of HIIT a week and additionally work as a removalist, a picker in a warehouse, or a white-water rafting instructor, you're sedentary? Or is there some middle group that was excluded from the study?

xgulfie2• 9 months ago

That "outside of daily tasks" addendum is killing me. What task performed regularly during the day is not a daily task???

UltraSane2• 9 months ago

The best indicator of fitness is your VO2 max value and this can be estimated using fitness trackers and smart watches. You should try to be in the top 10% for your age bracket. The higher the better as all cause mortality decreases as VO2 max increases.

rootusrootus4• 9 months ago

My gripe with VO2 max on my Apple Watch, at least, is that Apple has dozens of different workout options, but none of them include the option of changing your body weight. So my VO2 max was climbing steadily until I added rucking to my workouts, and now it's been dropping. Nowhere do I have the option of telling the watch that I'm intentionally carrying extra weight. This should be trivial to add into the UI and factor into the calculation.

justinator7• 9 months ago

Can you look in the mirror without feeling ashamed?

stevenwoo• 9 months ago

There's a mention in this article a measurement of various epigenetic clocks but one would have to measure a baseline then try increasing or decreasing to see the effect on test results.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2501185-our-bodies-are-...

frmersdog• 9 months ago

Sumo wrestlers generally don't develop metabolic disease until after they retire, which comes with the cessation of their grueling, multi-hour daily training regimens. I wish I could find the NHK report on a group of scientists that were researching how metabolically-undesirable substances build up in muscles after as little as 20 minutes of inactivity.

This is the one thing that makes me so angry about the state of AR/VR/XR. Human bodies are made to move when we work - not strenuously, not non-stop, but consistently and with some amount of vigor. Spatial software design represents an AMAZING opportunity to re-tune digital work processes to be movement-oriented, while still productive and efficient. Compare digital sculpting in ZBrush and Media Molecule's Dreams.

It's maybe harder to envision a similar transformation for people dealing with data or communication for a living, but is it out of the realm of possibility? It shouldn't be, for anyone who who might compare common GUIs to interfaces like VIM and Emacs. The former are the unhappy compromise between the latter and the as-yet-to-be-created spatial interfaces that would be coming if the Bigs would stop trying to outmaneuver each other, and just create them.

I am tired of trying to manage my photo library on a small laptop screen or monitor, with a single pointer. Let me summon them to my physical space and manipulate, stack, sort them, and more, with split controllers or my actual hands. I promise that my brain and body and your wallet will be much, much happier.

skeledrew• 9 months ago

I like the reenvisioning thoughts here. We're well overdue a Minority Report style upgrade to our I/O peripherals, with keyboard and mouse being relegated to backup use.

We have/had a few things which could help (Leap Motion controller, Kinect, etc), but it's really hard to imagine how to generalize interfaces for these new device forms so they're at least on par with the old from a productivity perspective. Otherwise, people outside of research and maybe gaming won't really be sold on it.

storus5• 9 months ago

Would 8 minute HIIT a few times a week do the job?

solraph4• 9 months ago

tl;dr; Nope.

Assuming that HIIT workouts are 100% vigorous activity (unlikely), then a "few" instances would only add up to around 24 minutes of vigorous activity, which is far short of the minimum recommended 75 minutes of vigorous activity.

If you are short on time then performing HIIT for 15 minutes five days a week will get you much closer to the minimum requirements.

storus5• 9 months ago

4-minute HIIT run (30s full/5s walk, repeat) makes you vomit and not feel your legs. 15 minutes of HIIT 5-times a week is a wishful thinking. It's not your typical "vigorous" activity. At my athletic very best I could at most chain 3 HIITs in a row and be destroyed for a few days.

generalenvelope2• 9 months ago

Vigorous activity is defined as something like > 75-80% max heart rate, or > 6.0 METS, not as an absolute, all out sprint. It's actually quite far from what you expect

YZF2• 8 months ago

It's better than nothing. It's better than likely some multiple of that in lower effort activities. But you probably want to round it out a little bit.

It almost certainly will improve your VO2MAX.

ifwinterco• 8 months ago

Maybe but if that's literally all you do then your joints are going to be wallpaper paste by the time you're middle aged

rester324• 9 months ago

I haven't read the paper, but what I am curious about, how much of the damage can be turned back if someone becomes physically active after a long sedentary period? Let's say someone already had low fat oxidization and/or cardiovascular disease, how much of that can be "cured" by being active?

This post claims: the good news is, this is reversible. But is that so? Is it also proven to reverse things in all cases? I would imagine there are caveats, and things are not that rosy in reality.

The reason I am asking because if the answer is "None. It can only keep the symptoms from worsening" then it's not really reasonable to expect people with such physiological situation to become active again.

They will most probably need to put in much more effort to achieve much smaller gain compared to a healthy individual, which is as I said is unreasonable. Especially because some people simply have worse genetics and or social circumstances which they might not be able to change.

So I appreciate these findings, but how I read this: you need to be aware of this to prevent the ill effects. And I doubt the reversible claim (although I have not much of an argument to corroborate that).

jaggederest4• 9 months ago

That's not really a relevant question, actually.

We know definitively that active is strictly better than inactive in all respects unless someone has such severe end stage cardiorespiratory issues that they risk actual death, or some other unusual condition that makes exercise contraindicated, in which case, of course, speak to a doctor and obey their advice.

Even if it merely preserves function (which I would be skeptical about, humans are amazingly adaptive), the alternative is inactivity and thus gradual loss of function indefinitely over time until death.

striking2• 9 months ago

It's not a question of trade-offs or utility. The sooner you intervene the more effective your interventions will be, sure, but it's hard for me to imagine a situation where there's absolutely no point in doing something about a sedentary lifestyle. It might be harder to improve your outcomes if you've already developed comorbidities but if one cares at all about living longer I don't see why that person should let perfect be the enemy of good.

Madmallard3• 9 months ago

I’ve been chronically ill for 11 years now. I wasn’t really exercising basically at all for 8 of them then I started walking 3 years ago and jogging 1 year ago and cycling 6 months ago. My VO2 max was 52 at age 24. 40 when tested a year later after becoming sick. I had it retested a year ago and it was 36.5. But I ran a 5:59 mile a month ago so it is very likely higher now. But I haven’t been able to get it retested since it is expensive. But my general health has massively improved in the past 6 months. I cycle 10-20 miles a day every day. I had like diastolic heart dysfunction and tons of arrhythmia showing up years ago and had a heart monitor redone this year and the rhythm is back to what it looked like before I became ill. I’m still sick but just seems like I have more vitality anyway now despite that.

jelsisi• 9 months ago

What illness if you don't mind me asking?

nradov6• 8 months ago

If you want to know your VO2 Max then you can do a Cooper Test for free at your local school running track. That won't be as precise as a metabolic lab test with a breathing mask but close enough.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_test

softwaredoug• 9 months ago

I didn’t strength train until my 40s. Started being able to curl 15 pound weights. Now at the same reps I’m up to 20 or 25. Years later :)

It takes time. It’s a very steady climb. No doubt if I was a teenager I’d make much faster progress.

But it’s not just about the raw amount of weights, my running pace, etc. The benefits for my mental health in the moment. Improving my sleep and stress. And myriad other benefits make it worth it.

jaggederest4• 8 months ago

"If you're in your 70s and benching 150, you fuckin' think anyone needs to help you with a fuckin' jug of milk? Fuck that."

- Dr. Mike Israetel, sport scientist and expert vulgarian

https://youtu.be/r8zcF6Ut7lo?t=903

I hope you continue, friend. The best age to start is when you're young, but the second best age to start is today. Keep at it, and never struggle to get out of a chair.

trjordan3• 9 months ago

Between this and http://myticker.com (posted recently), I want to share a theory of mine:

1) the internet is mostly made up of spaces where the median opinion is vanishingly rare among actual humans.

2) the median internet opinion is that of a person who is deep into the topic they're writing about.

The net result is that for most topics, you will feel moderate to severe anxiety about being "behind" about what you shuld be doing.

I'm 40, and I'm active. I ran a half marathon last weekend. I spent 5 hours climbing with my kids this weekend. My reaction to these articles, emotionally, was "I'm probably going to die of heart disease," because my cholesterol is a bit high and my BMI is 30. When I was biking 90 miles a week, my VO2 max was "sub-standard."

Let's assume this information is true. That's OK. It's all dialed up to 11, and you don't have to do anything about it right now.

jaggederest4• 9 months ago

Don't feel bad about your VO2 max, the baseline and ceiling are largely genetic. Most people can only bump VO2 max by about 10-15% even with absurd training regimens. Same goes with many of the markers people track - you can control them to an extent, but some people just have high blood pressure or poor lipid profiles and thus need intervention.

trjordan3• 9 months ago

Appreciate it. The Apple-Watch-measured version came up to 44 since I’ve started running. I’ve been pleased.

None of my markers are high enough to trigger a doctor to care.

port11• 8 months ago

Thanks for saying that. Even when I ran every day — with the occasional VO2max sprint day —, my Apple Watch never placed me anywhere but Below Average for VO2max. It was disheartening. Some of these metrics actually put you off training.

wotmatetherow3• 9 months ago

Obesity is an independent risk factor, even if otherwise active/healthy. It's worth getting under control for lifespan and healthspan.

rootusrootus4• 9 months ago

Across the population as a whole, BMI 30 is basically negligible increase in all-cause mortality. For someone otherwise reasonably active I wouldn't stress about the number. Ideal is somewhere around 27.

trjordan3• 9 months ago

Sure. I lost 20lbs in the last 12 months. I agree it’s worth working on, but not that it’s worth stressing about.

paulmooreparks• 8 months ago

BMI isn't a great predictor of health. Waist-to-hip ratio and body-fat percentage are probably somewhat better indicators.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/why-you-shouldnt-rely-on-b...

domenicd4• 9 months ago

A lot of people in the comments are expressing curiosity about "ideal" amounts of exercise to avoid these sorts of problems.

I have a real-life friend whose hobby is studying this stuff. His recommendations boil down to:

- 1/week 20 minutes HIIT: 5 minutes warmup, 3x(2 minutes high intensity + 3 minutes low intensity) blocks.

- 1/week strength training focused on large muscle groups.

- 12,000 steps per day walking (HIIT excluded).

According to his reading of the literature, this gives you the best bang for your buck in terms of all-cause mortality avoidance. Most of the studies in this area are correlational, not randomized controlled trials, so it's hard to be sure. But I can vouch for his diligence in trying to get to the bottom of this. I've been following his program since January with reasonably good results over my already-active baseline.

His website is https://www.unaging.com/, and honestly it's a bit hard to recommend because he's definitely playing the SEO game: the articles are often repetitive of each other and full of filler. And the CMS seems janky. (I would tell you to find his older articles before he started optimizing for SEO, but, it seems like the CMS reset all article dates to today.) But, if you have patience, it might be worthwhile.

dooglius• 9 months ago

Isn't 12k steps like 6 miles? I could plausibly jog that much, but to walk it every day seems like a huge time commitment.

John23832• 9 months ago

Then jog it? That's not a negative.

sublinear3• 9 months ago

The walking is the only true daily exercise commitment here, and 10k steps is a classic goal. Close enough for me would be reinterpreting this as "walk about an hour a day".

Otherwise, I think once-a-week HIIT and once-a-week strength training sounds very reasonable and easy to maintain for just about anyone.

nine_k• 9 months ago

Combine it with other commitments: walk the dog, do small-scale shopping (walk to the store and back), have a lunch break in a few minutes of walk from your office, etc.

This is, of course, most easily done in a proper walkable city. Elsewhere biking around could work, probably.

lumost• 9 months ago

It's typical/not difficult in major metro's - I do about 8-10k steps per day if I commute to and from my office without any lunch walks etc. Do any lunch/dinner/evening activity and you'll go over 12k.

I don't know how to replicate this in a car centric environment.

tom_alexander• 9 months ago

Wikipedia puts the "preferred walking speed" around 3 miles per hour, so that would be 2 hours of walking per day. So with 8 hours of sleep, 8 hours of work, 2 hours of walking, 1 hour of hygiene, 1 hour of commuting, and 2 hours for meals, you'd still be left with 2 hours of personal time to do all your extracurriculars like cleaning, parenting, spousing, hobbying, shopping, repairing things, etc.

inopinatus• 9 months ago

“Ideal” outcome here is likely a lot more time investment than the 95%ile-effectiveness “good enough” outcome; and in any case, an effective exercise prescription is as personally specific - perhaps even more so - than many pharmaceutical ones, to account for physiology, morphology, age et cetera.

For example my knees are too old for shuttle runs or whatever the intended HIIT might otherwise be, but I can happily go do 500W hill efforts on the bike.

d_silin• 9 months ago

Easy when you don't have a car. I average this much daily for the past 30 years.

strken2• 9 months ago

I get about 6000 daily steps from my commute[0] plus about 2000 from miscellaneous movement around the house and office. The extra 4000 are pretty easy to fill in with a lunchtime walk and some housework.

I don't think most people are going out and just walking for an hour and a half every day. A couple I know like to go for a walk with their morning coffees, for example. They've added walking into something they'd be doing anyway. Other people own a dog, or take their kid to the park each day, or do some other regular activity which integrates walking.

[0] 3000 each way, which is 2km and takes me about 20 minutes at a moderate-to-fast walking pace.

domenicd4• 9 months ago

12k steps is about 2 hours. It helps a lot to have a walking pad (basically a mini-treadmill), and possibly standing desk.

I do 45 minutes of Anki per day on the walking pad, and then if walking around the city hasn't gotten the other 1.25 hours, I can fill the rest with watching TV on the walking pad.

justinator7• 9 months ago

You'll miss walking when your older and your bones turn to dust.

I'd honestly walk as much as you can.

Rust never sleeps.

chaostheory• 8 months ago

Use a walking treadmill for your desk. Life changer

kjkjadksj• 8 months ago

Your body evolved to walk double that a day foraging and persistent hunting.

YZF2• 8 months ago

You can get 3k-4k steps easily just by moving a bit more during your day. The other 8k can be done in an hour walk. You can jog as well if you're short on time but it's probably nice to spend an hour outside every day anyways?

hn_throw2025• 8 months ago

[Loads up Fitbit] Yesterday, I did 15,686 steps which it reports as 6.5 miles. I always aim to get above 10K.

Due to an illness I currently have digestive problems, so I walk (stroll, rather) after eating as it provides relief.

I allow an hour after breakfast and also after the evening meal to do somewhere between 3K and 5K steps. This is at home. It’s not tedious as I listen to podcasts, audiobooks, talk radio, or music. As someone else mentioned, if you do it on a walking pad you could watch video. The rest of the steps stack up naturally as you go about your daily business.

tasuki• 8 months ago

My commute is a little less than that. It's certainly a better time investment than being stuck in traffic...

lurking_swe2• 8 months ago

this is why i love walkable cities! You don’t need to “schedule” time every week to meet basic fitness goals. You just walk to the subway, bus stop, etc. Walk to lunch. Walk to the park, Walk to buy groceries, etc.

For those living in suburbs, I hear dogs can be a good excuse to walk more. :)

GrzegorzWidla• 8 months ago

Then jog that much in zone 2. I’ve done exactly that, replaced 10K steps a day with < 30 mins jogs if I can’t hit the target for any reason (I work from home so it happens quite often unless I’m mindful about moving).

Blackthorn• 9 months ago

People must have very different definitions of HIIT because there's no way someone is sustaining a 2 minute absolute max-effort sprint.

cvwright• 9 months ago

Usually in this context it means “the max effort that you can sustain for 2 minutes”.

Same thing goes for a 20-minute max effort or even an hour etc.

domenicd4• 9 months ago

I just aim for zone 5. Usually it takes 45-60 seconds to get into zone 5, then I spend the remaining 60-75 seconds there.

torben-friis2• 9 months ago

Anaerobic training’s returns increase ridiculously with days/week until about 3 and it’s large diminishing returns after that.

Just saying, once you’re willing to lift weights once a week with all the upfront cost (gym membership, leaving your comfort zone, learning the ropes, etc) it’s a really good bang for your buck adding one or two more.

domenicd4• 9 months ago

For sure. My friend's program is longevity-focused, not strength focused.

I usually do 2/week strength training + 1/week bouldering, but have dropped to 1/week strength training + 1/week bouldering while I worked to incorporate the 12k steps into my routine. I'm also currently doing a cut so am less motivated to lift. After I hit 10% body fat I plan to start bulking and go back to 2/week + bouldering or maybe even 3/week + bouldering.

Regarding diminishing returns, at least for longevity,

Training once or twice a week for less than an hour can reduce the chance of death from any cause by 35%. But, if the time is increased to over an hour in a week or more than three sessions, then the longevity benefit disappears to zero compared with people who never put their hands on a weight.

from https://www.unaging.com/exercise/weight-lifting-for-life/ which cites https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7385554/ . Pretty interesting.

wotmatetherow3• 9 months ago

There's no such thing as "ideal". From what I understand from the research, more fitness is correlated with better health outcomes, even up to advanced to elite level. I recommend trying out a number of different exercise modalities and schedules and seeing what you enjoy, what makes you feel the best, and what fits into your life.

generalenvelope2• 9 months ago

The 2019 physical activity guidelines for Americans include consensus recommendations including the evidence and some good graphs to visualize the "bang for buck"

For those curious, those (weekly) recommendations are: twice weekly resistance training, and 150-300min moderate intensity aerobic activity, or 75-150min vigorous aerobic activity.

If you want a program to just give you a starting point, I highly recommend Barbell Medicine's (free) "Beginner Prescription"

pols45• 9 months ago

so its hard to be sure

Who is asking you to be sure in the first place? Why do you need this certainty? Farm animals need the comfort and stability of the farm to survive. They "flourish" within the parameters some one else sets.

In the Elephant-Rider model of how the mind works, people are talking to rider And the elephant.

The elephant just needs some feel good stuff, to momentarily focus shift away from all the unpredictability in the universe, it has no control over - in this case it is being fed - well the story teller who is not sure about anything is atleast "diligent".

When you let go of the story, and realize the elephant is not under your control and can never be, the ride is much smoother. And that's the only story, no SEO game needed to promote the Truth. And truth is - you are just along for the ride. Don't act like a farm animal thinking you are healthy based on how many eggs you have been told to lay. You are a chimp. All animal domestication protocols break down sooner or later when dealing with chimps. Cuz the chimp mind has an elephant in it. Taking it for a wild ride.

justinator7• 9 months ago

I love when exercise is hyper-optimized as possible so I can back to what's most important: working at a job I actually hate to make as much money as possible -- the real source of my happiness.

makk• 8 months ago

Unlikely that working a job leads to making as much money as possible.

burnt-resistor• 9 months ago

Walking 2 hours per day is a completely impractical fantasy.

A better resource: Body By Science a book containing recommendations based on research and data. The overall goal is proper volume of effective effort of cardio and strength exercise that doesn't take too long and reduces risks of wear/tear and injury.

lm284692• 8 months ago

Walking 2 hours per day is a completely impractical fantasy.

Tell people you spend 12 hours a day starring at a screen and they won't bat an eye, tell them you walk 10k step a day and they'll try to convince your it's unpractical, unhealthy, "10k is a made up number anyways", "I don't have time", "isn't it too hard?"

kmeisthax• 8 months ago

Playing 12s on maimai DX makes my arms sore. Is that HIIT? :P

rzk2• 8 months ago

Here is a study that tries to answer that question: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-024-02120-2

A good summary: https://bannister.coach/mitochondria-and-exercise-how-differ...

Quoting the conclusion:

In this systematic review and meta-regression covering ~ 50 years of research data, we demonstrate that the magnitude of change in mitochondrial content, capillarization, and VO2 max to exercise training is largely determined by the initial fitness level. The ability to adapt to exercise training is maintained throughout life irrespective of sex and presence of disease. Larger training volumes (higher training frequency per week and larger number of training weeks) and higher training intensities (per hour of training, SIT > HIT > ET) are associated with greater increases in mitochondrial content and VO2 max. Therefore, training load (volume x intensity) is a robust predictor of changes in mitochondrial content and VO2 max. Increases in capillarization occur primarily in the early stages of exercise training (< 4 weeks) with ET, HIT, and SIT equally enhancing capillaries per fiber, while ET is more effective in increasing capillary density (capillaries per mm²) due to less pronounced muscle fiber hypertrophy.

dachris• 8 months ago

The manual for a human body says several hours of exercise per day.

Children try to follow it, but it's being made hard for them, and by the time you're an adult most have learned to forget the natural instincts for movement and how much fun you can have doing physical exercise.

lucyjojo7• 8 months ago

never understood the physical exercise is fun thing.

i do it but it's just pure pain. i guess people are wired differently.

UniverseHacker• 8 months ago

The separate HIIT is probably not necessary if you vary your weight training to include higher volume sets. If you do a true HIIT sprint set at 100 percent effort like the initial journal article, you will be wiped out the rest of the day, it’s not practical.

lofaszvanitt• 8 months ago

12000 steps is around 10km. And takes around 2-2.5 hours of walking. So I say it is total baloney. Only very few people can do that amount of walking daily. Plus after you do a 2+ hour walk your body next day needs time to recuperate. As an added note it could be utterly boring to walk the same route again and again.

Rather do 6 km slow running 2 or 3 times a week (of course if you are not severely overweight). You can do that in one hour and one running session is enough for 2-3 days. It also strenghtens your core and every other muscle in your body. You will also eat less. If you can mix it with strength training that includes your 4 headed leg muscles you will feel yourself like a champ.

Lot of literature is absolute hogwash in this space because most of them is theoretical and they regurgitate the same old bs. Like idiots saying running half an hour is 400 kcal :D.

Your body is a system, and not a robot or an engine that needs x amount of gas and oil to go for y kilometers.

lurking_swe2• 8 months ago

It’s not 2 hours of walking nonstop. Walking to the toilet counts. So does walking to the bus, the grocery store, to lunch, etc.

I think it’s doable if you live in a very walkable city. I routinely hit about 11k steps most days of the week. Some days less of course…like if i’m sore from a workout or just feeling sedentary.

storus5• 9 months ago

How about boosting mitochondria via supplements? Would that be something to look at? I climbed out of ME/CFS-like neurocovid mainly thanks to boosting mitochondria as much as I could and am wondering if the same lesson could be applied here?

justinator7• 9 months ago

How about just moving around for 30 minutes most days?

Supplements aren't going to help you mentally as a nice walk in the park.

storus5• 8 months ago

The point was that in ME/CFS you are essentially a conscious vegetable where drinking a glass of water or crawling to the toilet feels like a massive achievement. That mitochondrial supplements allowed pushing the limit every day a bit further in that state could have implications for regular folks as well who for whatever reasons can't move (imagine injury, lack of energy after a stressful day etc.).

abraxas• 9 months ago

I dislike most forms of exercise for one reason or another. I'm likely on the autism spectrum and have all the clumsiness that comes with the package so ball sports or dance are particularly hard and turned me off of sports for decades.

I also dislike walking and hiking as nature loves to make me miserable - I'm a pale mosquito magnet. Meanwhile walking in my city is a miserable experience as the urban environment is ugly and depressing where I live. And it's frigid most of the year.

But at last a few years ago I found a discipline that I enjoy and might be considered decent at. It's also one that to my understanding is one of the most beneficial of them all - I'm talking about swimming. I go to the pool every weekday before work and try to get at least 2-3 km at a decent clip. Mixing styles every few hundred metres to make sure I move different muscle groups.

It has done wonders for my physical appearance and my mental health which is what actually motivated me to try this after years of failed psychiatric treatments. If you know how to swim or are willing to learn I can't recommend it highly enough.

stephen_g2• 8 months ago

I quite literally was thinking as I was reading your second paragraph, "hey, they should try swimming" - turns out you're well ahead of me!

I started about four years ago, and it's been awesome for me too. For me I tried it because I just never liked how running makes me feel in my chest, whereas the aerobic intensity of swimming (slower burn in zones 2 and 3) feels way better to me.

For anyone starting out, there is a bit of a hump to get over as you get some technique (I just used YouTube videos and feel). For a bit of an idea of how it can be to start, when my then-girlfriend (now wife) started coming along to some of my sessions, she had done three half marathons and was training for her fourth, but she couldn't swim 50m of freestyle in one go without a break! I remember doing two laps, having a break, then some breastroke, break, etc., whereas now I can pretty easily punch out 600m freestyle sets fairly fast before a break, or do 2km without stopping at a bit of a slower pace.

beingfit• 8 months ago

For anyone starting out, there is a bit of a hump to get over as you get some technique (I just used YouTube videos and feel).

Are you saying you learned to swim from YouTube videos and applying those lessons? Any recommendations on videos or playlists?

asdff• 8 months ago

You should look into Moe Norman. Legendary golfer on the spectrum. You might catch the bug like he did. A round of golf is about 5-6 miles of walking.

laszlojamf• 8 months ago

I've been trying to get into swimming for years, but being on the ADHD-side instead, I just find it intolerably boring >.<

BobaFloutist• 8 months ago

A lot of people swear by waterproof bone-conduction earbuds for swimming, which could probably make it considerably less boring.

Lord-Jobo• 8 months ago

I love swimming but it’s incredibly inaccessible for me. I don’t own a pool, the closet public pool is 20 minutes away and doesn’t have lane rental so I can’t consistently do laps, and everything is outdoors so it’s sun poisoning or winter temperatures for most of the year.

inverted666• 8 months ago

This article describes issues lurking unseen for inactive people. I have the inverse. I'm one of the more active people I know: lots of walking, biking, swimming, hiking (with a heavy pack). I like to do outside work like digging and chopping firewood, etc. Yet, my blood glucose went prediabetic a couple of years ago (I'm 45). I actually eat very well too, lots of greens and whole grains, mostly vegetarian (my wife is a dietitian). I rarely eat sweets.

So, I have the inverse issue: instead of being inactive with an unobserved symptom, I am active with an observed symptom.

Alas, I haven't been able to get any relevant medical advice because the answer is always: diet and exercise. And, while I suppose I could find some way to improve my diet and exercise to some degree, I'm clearly above the norm. And, when I got a referral to an endocrinologist, they ended up canceling the appointment without seeing me because I'm only prediabetic.

Does anyone have thoughts or advice?

__rito__• 8 months ago

I will recommend working while walking. Also learning while working.

One needs a standing desk and a treadmill.

Also, if you are watching an episode of a tv show, randomly watching YouTube videos, listening to podcasts, etc., walk an hour or two during that time. That time won't feel 'wasted'.

I can't point you towards any study. But intake of new knowledge and information is somehow better while I am walking.

eeasss• 8 months ago

One workaround that I have to maximize my steps is to have walking meetings whenever face 2 face camera is not mandatory or when discussing ideas. All hands - walk. Meet with peer - circle the office parking lot. The goal is to maximize steps starting from the first wake minute. That side I still have fatty liver. My doctor said it’s most likely due to genetics.

rzk2• 8 months ago

There's a quote in that blog that I quite liked:

We’ve engineered movement out of our lives. We sit in chairs, stare at screens, and outsource physical effort to machines. Then we try to cram all our movement into 45-minute bursts a few times a week.

This is like eating only once a week and calling it a balanced diet. Most people are malnourished, not from lack of food, but from a lack of diverse, nutrient-dense movement.

Metabolic and cellular differences between sedentary and active individuals

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