Living with Williams Syndrome, the 'opposite of autism' (2014)

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-26888280

by colinprince • 11 months ago

116 102 11 months ago

bbc.com

ryandv• 11 months ago

Are you a patient of this condition or something? Would you mind sharing your story?

learningmore• 11 months ago

Published in 2014.

firefax3• 11 months ago

Published in 2014.

Yes, that is in the article.

Anything you wish to add?

Developments since then the article lacks?

southwindcg• 11 months ago

It's common practice here to point out the date of older articles so the year can be added to the post title.

empressplay• 11 months ago

Despite having almost all of the prerequisite conditions (heart murmur, lazy eye, left-dominant, hernia, poor motor skills etc.) this was ruled out for me when I was a child due to exhibiting a high-IQ (~130), and I was repeatedly diagnosed with autism, despite being outgoing and high-EQ (and horribly naive!).

When I got older I began to develop connective tissue disorders and spasticity, which were incapacitating until I found treatment. I was diagnosed with EDS but that may also have been not-quite-correct, since apparently these issues are also common in WS.

Also, it apparently _is_ possible for people with WS to also have higher-than-average IQs. God, life is so frustrating sometimes!

cjbgkagh• 11 months ago

All your items on your list for WS is on my list for hEDS, add in the IQ and I’d say likely 2 TNXB SNPs, do a high quality WGS to be sure. Given the hEDS I highly doubt you have WS as well, just hEDS presents in a variety of depending on other co-occurring SNPs and you got a particular combo.

hEDS is far more common than currently thought because the medical diagnostics are not very sensitive, it’s a spectrum and what doctors tend to think of hEDS is the severe form of it.

iainctduncan• 11 months ago

Williams Syndrome is discussed in the (fantastic!) book by Oliver Sacks, "Musicophelia". It is often associated with hypermusicality, and the chapter on it is super interesting.

type02• 11 months ago

I spoke with one person with WS recently, very musically minded. I haven't recognized what the syndrome was at the time, but I remembered that it was some textbook case of genetic disorder. As adults I think they're aware to be gullible and might take "too much precautions" when it comes to crime in a city so they might bother the police a bit too much.

mcdeltat3• 11 months ago

Empathy, hypersensitivity, anxiety, difficulty understanding social nuance, nonstandard eye contact - it actually sounds quite similar to autism, rather than the opposite. (Not the stereotypical autistic traits that most people misunderstand but the actual traits.) The overlap is interesting. I wonder if in the future some related mechanisms/explanations will be discovered.

exasperaited4• 11 months ago

The specific "opposite" they talk about is clarified further in the article and is interesting:

Lizzie Hurst, chief executive at the Williams Syndrome Foundation, says: "People [with the disorder] conduct themselves in a way that makes them extremely vulnerable.
"They don't have the cognitive ability to match their linguistic age.
"There is a classic autistic profile to which Williams Syndrome is the polar opposite. People can gauge the mood of a crowd and adopt without understanding the nuances of the situation."

The last bit of that is the difference, right? You wouldn't say an autistic person could easily gauge the mood of a crowd and adopt. These are people who are -- compared to neurotypical people! -- social butterflies, linguistically talented, friendly, open, happy-go-lucky, but gullible. This is not the picture of classic autism for sure. It does feel somewhat opposite.

But then I guess one of the interesting things about opposites is that they are within the same plane or category, right? The opposite of a knife is another item of cutlery, not a haddock.

It seems like this syndrome is a genetic deletion, which is not my understanding of autism, but it presumably could have some similar neurological impacts.

topato• 11 months ago

Hmmm.... But many pieces of cutlery can still be used to cut... Haddock would be exceedingly hard to cut anything with. IPSO FACTO! HADDOCK IS THE OPPOSITE OF A KNIFE!

mcdeltat3• 11 months ago

In regards to the genetic deletion, yeah that doesn't seem to be the cause of autism, but cells are so complex that their could be related mechanisms downstream from that. E.g. it's not like there's a single "socialising gene" which is either on or off and explains the entire phenotype. I thought of it because we know there's a lot of overlap between other neurodivergent conditions like autism and ADHD. Maybe one day we'll discover a model which explains all these conditions.

ethan_smith• 11 months ago

The deletion of ~25 genes on chromosome 7 in Williams Syndrome affects oxytocin regulation and amygdala function differently than the neurobiological patterns in autism, creating distinct social-cognitive profiles despite the superficial similarities you've noted.

FollowingTheDao4• 11 months ago

Oxytocin plays such a small role in Autism and it is not consistent across the disorder. I have Aspergers but I react much like someone with Williams Syndrome. For example, I usually end up crying when I see live music, even more so when I experience live tribal music, for instance, at a Powwow.

shazbotter9• 11 months ago

People with WS are empathetic, social, friendly and endearing but they tend to have a low IQ, making tasks such as counting money difficult.
They can feel anxious over stimuli such as the buzzing of a bee, or the texture of food.

Plenty of autistic folks are empathetic, social, and friendly. And many experience stimuli that cause anxiety.

The whole "it's the opposite of autism" doesn't actually help anyone understand and, IMO, reinforces the incorrect idea that autistic people are asocial, emotionless automata.

mcdeltat3• 11 months ago

From what I've read there's been a history of people not fitting the strict "Asperger's boy" type traits being excluded from autism diagnoses, so we end up with a narrow, wrong stereotype. Plenty of autistic people who outwardly appear antisocial and plenty who appear quite social. Also worth remembering that autism occurence significantly overlaps with other conditions like ADHD, which may mold the presentation of the traits.

porknubbins• 11 months ago

Having worked with some brilliant people with autism, I argue that deficits in cognitive empathy/ inability understand intuitively what other people are thiking in real time is the hallmark of autism.

Moreso than anything about emotions, body language, social skills etc this is the most common trait. It pops up in odd places no matter how much you mask or learn the visible skills.

dagurp• 11 months ago

As they saying goes. If you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism.

ekianjo• 11 months ago

the term "autistic" pretty much lost all meaning since its an umbrella term for a bunch of very different traits.

sethaurus2• 11 months ago

It didn't lose all meaning, it just became more difficult to stereotype. The diagnostic criteria for ASD are about its impact on the individual, not how it superficially presents to other people.

The DSM-V combined together a bunch of old disorders with largely overlapping symptoms and no consistent differentiation at the diagnostic level.

dimal2• 11 months ago

I’m autistic and I agree with this. Pretty much any time someone says, “autism is…” they’re wrong. So, saying this disorder is the opposite of a poorly defined cluster of traits is just absurd.

exasperaited4• 11 months ago

It has just dawned on me that I know someone with Williams Syndrome, and I think this idea of an "opposite" is actually quite valuable.

The title does put 'the opposite of autism' in quotes, to make it clear it's someone's phrasing, not a matter of fact, but the body of the article quotes someone from a foundation for the disease saying:

"There is a classic autistic profile to which Williams Syndrome is the polar opposite. People can gauge the mood of a crowd and adopt without understanding the nuances of the situation."

That, it seems to me, could be a defensible point. That is not something you'd ever say an autistic person would be good at; it's antithetical.

But more to the point, not everything is an attack on autistic people. These are people trying to make a case that people should care about and be aware of the welfare needs associated with a poorly-understood disorder (which is maybe a hundred times rarer than autism). It would be fair I think to allow them the room to explain that.

shazbotter9• 11 months ago

An autistic person can absolutely be good at that. It might not be intuitive, but that doesn't mean they can't be good at it.

But more to the point, not everything is an attack on autistic people

No one said it was. I said it perpetuates a stereotype. I think that's different than an attack, personally. It's careless, not malicious.

But careless can still be irritating.

dimal2• 11 months ago

That’s the opposite of an incorrect stereotype. The idea that autistic people don’t have empathy is false. I’m autistic. Of all the other autistic people I know (about a dozen) all are highly empathetic. To neurotypical people we often don’t appear empathetic but that’s very different.

This disorder actually sounds somewhat adjacent to autism. Many autistic people have intense affective empathy and get overwhelmed by other’s emotions, especially in groups. But often we just shut down, which appears like nothing is registering and we have no empathy.

tsoukase4• 11 months ago

I think I fall under the autistic umbrella (spectrum). I definitely show empathy but "it is not enough", as my wife usually says. I am responding, it might not be enough but that is all my soul gives 100%.

dang2• 11 months ago

Related. Others?

Williams Syndrome: The people who are too friendly - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44011380 - May 2025 (2 comments)

Williams Syndrome - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24536693 - Sept 2020 (2 comments)

Williams syndrome - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22082839 - Jan 2020 (7 comments)

Williams Syndrome: What World’s Most Sociable People Reveal About Friendliness - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20093646 - June 2019 (5 comments)

Living with Williams Syndrome, the 'opposite of autism' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7583121 - April 2014 (65 comments)

austin-cheney• 11 months ago

Not the same, but another genetic disorder that also impacts intelligence and social reasoning is Fragile X. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragile_X_syndrome

tsoukase4• 11 months ago

Intelligence is extremely sensitive to all chromosome abnormalities (eg all trisomies, Klinefelter syndrom)

RobRivera• 11 months ago

The opposite of something with a large spectrum...

I just can't sorry

mjklin• 11 months ago

One theory for how wolves became domesticated is that certain of them had a condition like Williams that made them friendly to humans, who became the ancestors of modern dogs. It was mentioned on the Ologies podcast that covered canines I believe.

Aachen• 11 months ago

Makes me wonder if the original wolf is similarly smarter as well

Tamed is a nice read by Alice Roberts, about domestication of various species like potatoes and horses (most of them before written history, so it's a puzzle with pieces being put together with archeological finds). One chapter is about dogs aka domesticated wolves

ziofill• 11 months ago

Back when I was in high school I read a book ("the speed of dark" by Elizabeth Moon) which is written from the perspective of an autistic person who works for a pharmaceutical company (I won't add spoilers). It was full of nuggets of wisdom that made me appreciate how many autistic people just think differently, and how the deficit perspective is wrong and conterproductive.

r0ze-at-hn• 11 months ago

Armchair geneticist: So in the group of genes that are deleted in particular LIMK1 stands out. After it is deleted there is only 1 copy behind. The other copy could be less effective as sometimes seen, but Estrogen in particular inactivates LIMK1. So in those with genetics for high estrogen signaling (that they are also known for) are more likely to inactivate the one remaining copy of LIMK1. And then you get the highly verbal, social, poor math & visual-spatial information, outcome. This combo would be more likely to be found in families of HPA Axis issues so anxiety, insomnia, etc I would speculate come along for the ride, more than directly influence that brain development branch. It is always more complicated, but for the curious.

Edit: lol no need to actually poke around just see wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_syndrome#Cause

sandspar• 11 months ago

People get upset when I share this anecdote but I think it's enlightening. I talked to a guy whose sister has Williams Syndrome. About her personality, he said "She's like a Golden Retriever who can text." I got the sense that he was referring to her cheerfulness, kindness, and inspiring openness. I also got the sense that he felt very protective of her, as if she were a young woman with a beautiful soul who is nevertheless extremely vulnerable.

rickandmorty99• 11 months ago

I was late diagnosed with autism at 35 due to sleeping difficulties. I don't have a lot of social difficulties. I currently have some at work but before this job I didn't have issues. I have 0 dating difficulties, mostly because I tackled that issue in my early teens studied everything I could find and at one point I just got it. I'm not sensitive to light or smells. I am slightly sensitive to sound such as sirens from an ambulance. My special interest revolves around learning anything and everything (basically the Hacker News ethos about being curious), which is also atypical as it isn't a restrictive interest.

The comments here need to be a bit careful with what autism is as it can present itself very differently in people. In part this is because the medical establishment doesn't know a lot yet about what it is. Only quite recently did they find that there's 4 subtypes [1].

It's funny. My wife, non-autistic, tells me I'm one of the most emotionally intelligent men she knows. She keeps saying that. In part, I trained it through meditation (1000 hours in), in part it's just really about paying attention. She hasn't been the only one. I've also met one person at times saying I lack empathy and come across as robotic at times. But I can tell you, in general, I empathize and feel things. I have noticed that I can't always communicate well that I understand what other people mean. When I was younger they went on to explain it to me and it was always really annoying since I understood but people thought I didn't.

I often go against the grain with things because I think things are foolish. If I'd have done otherwise, I'd have definitely been trapped into the toxic masculine culture and drink a lot more alcohol. So often times what I do may not look empathetic or sympathetic but that's because many people don't care that they are toxic themselves and then just put the emotional burden to me.

Related to empathy: ever since I got the autism diagnosis, to the people I've told, I've seen an uptick in them saying I'm not empathetic at times by one person. So sharing your diagnosis does give some people a prejudice over you that shouldn't really be there.

[1] https://www.princeton.edu/news/2025/07/09/major-autism-study...

JackMorgan• 11 months ago

I wonder how this relates to Sensory Processing Sensitivity? I know some folks with this who experience some of the same attributes but are otherwise very high IQ.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_processing_sensitivi...

codr7• 11 months ago

This doesn't sound much like an opposite to me.

There are different levels of ADHD, and many are judged as stupid in school simply because they're bored and overstimulated at the same time.

The rest of the traits described are pretty common in ADHD from my experience.

FollowingTheDao4• 11 months ago

People with autism and Asperger‘s have empathy. Just updating people cause this article is from 2014 and they didn’t know that back then.

And I don’t think being endearing to people is representative of empathy.

Shorel• 11 months ago

I think I get that syndrome when I am around a woman who I find very attractive.

yapyap• 11 months ago

pretty wild title, very ignorant as well

Fnoord2• 11 months ago

People with WS are empathetic, social, friendly and endearing but they tend to have a low IQ, making tasks such as counting money difficult.

FWIW, this describes me (ASD, diagnosed) on XTC.

akk0• 11 months ago

This is the opposite of autism like dogs are the opposite of cats.

tsoukase4• 11 months ago

Especially we can say, all dogs are autistic and all cats have William's.

FollowingTheDao4• 11 months ago

This article is old and stupid. They find traits of Autism in Williams Syndrome. Why do ten year old science articles make it to the top of HN?

Symptoms of autism in Williams syndrome: a transdiagnostic approach

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-68089-0

Autism and Williams syndrome: truly mirror conditions in the socio-cognitive domain? https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9351567/

smnthermes• 11 months ago

Autism is a common comorbidity of Williams syndrome.

Living with Williams Syndrome, the 'opposite of autism' (2014)

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