Ask HN: Review my web app? Trying to get out of slump.

http://www.wysp.ws/

by fchollet • 14 years ago

53 36 14 years ago

fchollet12• 14 years ago

I have a pretty high churn rate, so I've recently been rolling new features to try to stay afloat. User feedback is positive, but the usage stats aren't.

Any insight as to what I could be doing wrong?

thejerz2• 14 years ago

What kind of specific feedback are you getting? And what do your usage stats specifically look like?

fchollet12• 14 years ago

Usage: I have a very restricted core of regular users. Most new users quit after a few days or a week (I suppose the app did not deliver on the reason why they joined the website in the first place?). When contacted, these users basically never reply. Paid users also never reply when contacted for feedback.

The spontaneous feedback I'm getting is positive but unhelpful, in the lines of "this site is great, love the concept", etc.

Any idea? What's your first impression?

shubber• 14 years ago

Consider reaching out to a new in-person group of users. Bring the site to them, show it off, and ask what they think. Local uni art program, maybe?

PedroCandeias• 14 years ago

Like you said, user feedback is one thing and usage stats quite another. I learned from threddie (so far my only SaaS which got any traction) that feedback should be taken with a Gibraltar-sized grain of salt. Often, people tell you your app is great out of sympathy or because they hope to gain something from you. Don't disregard feedback, but focus on your metrics. I'm curious about your metrics strategy. Are you keeping track of ALL meaningful user actions with a tool like mixpanel, or simply relying on google analytics? A good metrics tracking strategy can be quite revealing.

By the way, kudos for the project and for posting it.

thejerz2• 14 years ago

Your practice engine idea is really smart, but it isn't at all immediately apparent upon visiting the site. At first, your website looks like any "portfolio site" (deviant art, dribble, etc). To make the practice engine the focus of the website, I would consider a new homepage design that focuses on the "learn to draw" aka "practice engine" aspect of the website, as opposed to a portfolio showcase. There are lots of portfolio sites, but very few websites that teach you how to draw on a structured learning path. It is a great idea, stick with it!

fchollet12• 14 years ago

Thank you! So, are you suggesting to send any new visitor to a landing page describing the site's features, with a focus on the practice engine?

tomblomfield• 14 years ago

Yes, and include screenshots & explanation of the practice engine.

Also, the practice engine is cool but feels incomplete. There are random lines between body parts - I'm sure they are there for a reason, but I don't know what that reason is.

hu_me• 14 years ago

thejerz feedback is spot on. This is how my visit went right now: i clicked through the site and immediately started scrolling through images. and didnt even know there was anything else. came back to hn opened comments and saw the practice engine mentioned. went back to the site looking to checkout the practice engine, noticed it mentioned as a single line on top. clicked through but all I found was a page to pay.

My thoughts: i m intrigued by the practice engine but with no demo, no convincing plus a limited course offering, im going on blind faith. the value proposition is hidden. images are overwhelming and i lose all my attention to them.

hope this helps. good luck.

kevinconroy3• 14 years ago

Agree with other comments that at first use it's not clear what the site is for, but shows a lot of potential. Have you done any A/B testing? If not, check out https://www.optimizely.com/

Also, are you sending email to users whenever they get comments? Emails to people who sign up but never post anything? Welcome emails to people who sign up telling them what to do? Create sets of automated email campaigns and it will dramatically improve your usage stats. Articles from Patrick trend on HN all the time, but here's a link in case you missed it (+1 from my professional experience): http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/05/31/can-i-get-your-email/

Best of luck to you!

fchollet12• 14 years ago

Thank you! I will investigate mailing campaigns.

kevinconroy3• 14 years ago

If you don't already have a mailing system in place, check out MailChimp (www.mailchimp.com) or SendGrid (www.sendgrid.com).

MailChimp is great if you want a full WYSIWYG newsletter solution.

SendGrid is great if you want to roll your own software to generate emails - they provide a ton of terrific SMTP-based add-ons that trick out your emails with analytics, click tracking, and best-practice stuff that's a pain to automate. I don't work for them - just love their service.

roninresearcher• 14 years ago

Thank you for the insight and link for email campaigns! Addresses a lot of biases i had about them.

kevinconroy3• 14 years ago

Don't let bad marketing give email a bad name.

Yes, I too have had my biases. If you do them well, then email can be incredible effective and welcomed by users. It's all about how you target, segment, and position yourself in a genuine, authentic, and helpful way. (The "bad marketing" emails tend to forget that last part.)

georgeecollins2• 14 years ago

I agree with other comments that this looks like a portfolio site while your USP is teaching.

I tried your tool and I didn't really understand why it taught me anything. It put up a picture, waited for me to draw in your limited drawing tool, then asked me to evaluate myself. I just scribbled and gave myself four stars an everything continued happily.

It seems like the practice engine lacks useful feedback, but maybe that is a feature I would get if I signed in?

fchollet12• 14 years ago

How would you expect that useful feedback to be implemented?

The self-rating system currently in place in meant as a guide for the spaced repetition system. If you give yourself unrealistic ratings, it will only result in a less optimized learning experience...

georgeecollins2• 14 years ago

But then I don't understand how the "teaching" app is really teaching me. It's just telling me to draw a set of pictures. Why does that have to be an app? Couldn't you just have 20 images to practice drawing as an HTML page?

wisty2• 14 years ago

You have 2 courses. The first prominently displays $2.00 price, and then says "$2.00 (one session free!)". The second is free.

But when I scanned it, all I saw was "$2.00", not the freebies.

Maybe style the buttons, so they display what is free?

fchollet12• 14 years ago

A more prominent, colorful "free!" label? Most definitely a good idea. Thank you!

wisty2• 14 years ago

Also, a "first session free" label. Maybe CSS style the button? Though patio can tell you horror stories about "great" changes like this which decreased sales, as he didn't test on IE (which simply didn't show his button).

etherealG• 14 years ago

focus on what sets you apart, the practice engine. on your homepage although just under the nav you have text explaining this, people are generally more visual as I'm sure you know, try using something more visual to explain how this practice engine works maybe?

by way of an example, http://www.sublimetext.com/ has a set of features that really make it stand out as a text editor. they could be written out in text, but it's hard to understand what they are when described in words. instead the author has put some animated pictures showing the actual features in use. this presentation instantly shows how you would use those features and most people understand right away where the benefit is.

i'm not sure animated would work for yours, but perhaps a swapping image showing a particular artists progress over a few weeks/months.

just an idea, hope it helps. 1 other tiny thing that got to me, the top nav text isn't vertically centered in the space. it's a small gripe, but sometimes little details can make the difference, especially on a site for artists.

edit: another thing that comes to mind, you feature art on the homepage in a similar style to a portfolio. including what's new or popular. what if instead you featured the artist, and then change between pictures of their progress up to that point. you could highlight the learning aspect by showing progress of each artist you feature on the homepage, rather than just 1 piece of art by that artist.

fchollet12• 14 years ago

Thank you for your great feedback! I particularly like the idea of showing the progress of an artist on the landing page, that would be quite powerful. Thanks!

pemmigiwhoseit• 14 years ago

Positives: 1. Generally great idea. 2. Very nice css, looks beautiful. 3. Really like the blank page section - it really encourages people to get involved. (make this more prominent). Advice/Criticism: Just looked at it for a few minutes but here are my first impression thoughts: 1. You say on home page it is for practice and personal progress, but all I see is other people's are that is way better than mine. 2. You feature the practice engine but it only has two courses, and feels incomplete. (plus it looks like you are asking for my money before you convince me I should use your site / before I even fully understand the purpose). Maybe try to feature your best feed back coupled with the piece instead of your most popular art. Add more classes and make a couple of them (more obviously) free. Encourage me to upload art from the start - right now it feels like I should focus on other peoples art instead of my own.

fchollet12• 14 years ago

Thank you for your insight. Very useful!

nanijoe• 14 years ago

It's not immediately apparent what your site does. Instead of the cryptic "unlike other websites, wysp is not about showcase etc" , can you just write something as straight forward as "Learn how to draw" or " Let us help you improve your pencil skills" or whatever message directly tells your target audience what it is exactly you do

hippo33• 14 years ago

I completely agree with this. I think using plain English and a couple of concrete examples at the top of the page would help immensely.

I didn't know what this meant, for example: "Wysp is a journey to realize your full creative potential."

devgutt• 14 years ago

You could disable user-scalable in meta tag viewport. Painting Application didn't work in iPad.

fchollet12• 14 years ago

Ah yes, I haven't added touch support yet. I'll get to it!

some1else• 14 years ago

I love the concept. In the past, I've taken part in many communities and forums that had an immensely positive effect on my progress in learning to design graphics and music.

One thing you can improve instantly, that will probably reduce the bounce rate, is the landing page copy. Make it very clear what your product does.

Otherwise, I think you may be limiting the users and yourself too much by enforcing the time-trial and web-based drawing tool. It's probably quite engaging for those who dig in in front of their PC with a graphics tablet in hand. But it didn't work out for me on the MacBook trackpad or the iPad.

If it was my MVP, I'd just let people upload the image -- no matter how they made it -- and focus on community building. 9 times out of ten, the thing that helped me improve was advice from a peer or mentor.

You want to have an environment where people aren't scared of posting because of unsubstantiated negative reviews. But you need to have members that are capable of constructive criticism. Otherwise you just end up with praise and flattery, which belongs in a showcase more than it does in a Practice Engine.

Goood luck! I'll take another look at the app when I'm at a desktop computer.

fchollet12• 14 years ago

Thank you for your insight! A new landing page is in preparation : )

Ask HN: Review my web app? Trying to get out of slump.

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