JFK's Application to Harvard

http://www.scribd.com/doc/46828819/JFK-s-Harvard-Application-Materials

by valgaze • 14 years ago

73 84 14 years ago

scribd.com

sown• 14 years ago

Heh. Get born into the right family and off to Harvard you go.

leeoniya• 14 years ago

<del>Harvard</del><ins>ANYWHERE</ins>

zaptheimpaler• 14 years ago

Traditionally, we use s/Harvard/ANYWHERE/g around these parts.

hyperbovine• 14 years ago

If you're coming from the "right family" a Harvard education probably isn't worth that much to you anyways.

ladzoppelin• 14 years ago

I am sure the ones getting in because of family help pay for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_aid_%28educational_ex...

MisterBastahrd2• 14 years ago

Of course it is. Families like that don't think in terms of a single generation. Joe Kennedy knew that putting his kids in Ivy League schools meant that his grandkids had a very high probability of being in Ivy League schools, simply because of the connections you make with other wealthy people at these universities.

Joe didn't care whether his kid was in Princeton or Harvard, as long as it was one of them. Once you've made more money than you can count, the next step is to focus on your legacy.

sliverstorm2• 14 years ago

Does his application make him out to be unworthy? I'm having a difficult time reading bits.

yolesaber2• 14 years ago

I am not sure of how the grading system worked at his particular school at that particular time, but it would appear that JFK received numerous C's and D's during high school (see: scores in the 60s and 70s on page four).

MisterBastahrd2• 14 years ago

He would barely qualify for a state directional school with those grades at that time. Had he not been the son of Joe Kennedy, his school counselors almost certainly would have tried to steer him towards manual labor.

MengYuanLong• 14 years ago

I would be interested to hear other's thoughts on JFK's answer to why he would like to attend Harvard.

I suck at writing essays but it seems his reason for wanting to attend Harvard is incredibly trite and superfluous, especially coming from a man who would eventually be considered a great orator.

For example, he states that Harvard " is a university with something definite to offer." Yet gives no definitive examples. Why is "To be a 'harvard man' is an enviable distinction" in President Kennedy's mind? Essentially every sentence lacks justification and specificity.

Sigh. These sorts of materials at least provide fuel to refocus on work and studies. Being born outside a powerful family may lack certain advantageous but they can be overcome. Right?

forensic2• 14 years ago

His answers are shallow because they can be. The application was just a formality for the sake of show. He was guaranteed admission based on family connections.

mquander• 14 years ago

I assume his reason is trite and superfluous because it's a stupid question. When you're a high school senior, all you know about colleges probably boils down to

- General reputation

- About famous people (or family members) that went there

- A brief visit to a few of them that you pick out of a hat

- How much it costs

What kind of non-superflous evidence do you expect him to be able to bring to bear?

1337biz• 14 years ago

Just wondering: Is there any decent Pdf host besides scribd? Every time I visit the site I regret it once again. The list of additional domains to whitelist in no-script just to view the content is endless. Just a simple Pdf link would be much more pleasant.

agildehaus• 14 years ago

It's not a PDF, but here's the source:

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/Archives/JFKPP-002-00...

andreasvc3• 14 years ago

This version is more readable, so the PDF conversion was badly done.

rdl• 14 years ago

I used to hate Scribd when it was flash, but now that its HTML5 it is sometimes preferable to the broken PDF installations on borrowed computers (like, popping up Acrobat offering to update, selL me AV, etc). At home I generally prefer direct PDF, though.

danso• 14 years ago

There is DocumentCloud, which Jeremy Ashkenas led (and was the project from which he spun off Underscore.js and Backbone.js, among other things). It's the best implementation of PDF on the web that I've seen though it is invite only to news orgs (it was jointly sponsored by the New York Times and ProPublica)

http://documentcloud.org

jpeg_hero• 14 years ago

Seems like the most important page in the application is the letter from ole Joe Kennedy.

pkill17• 14 years ago

And how would you reply to a letter from ole Joe Kennedy if it were placed in your Inbox at work? ;)

forensic2• 14 years ago

Point? Is that rationale supposed to serve as justification for nepotism?

We should be creating institutions that have systems which will not respond to nepotism. Harvard is the precise opposite of this, with nepotism being one of its most sacred causes.

philwelch• 14 years ago

"Please tell me who found the secret of resurrection and taught you to use email. This is the most remarkable news I've ever heard."

mturmon2• 14 years ago

The recommendation letter takes pains to talk about JFKs health and vigor, but this is now known to be a front. He had health problems from an early age, and took lots of medications. Reference: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec02/jfk_11-18.h...

jontas2• 14 years ago

The letter from his father to Harvard does mention that he has had some health problems (blood disease) but that he has fully recovered.

Interesting that he was willing to contradict the letter of recommendation that you mentioned. However, it looks like the letter from his father was sent after he had been admitted, so maybe it didn't matter anymore.

mturmon2• 14 years ago

JFK had health problems in his youth and during his presidency, right up until he was killed. He felt it necessary to convey the impression of "vigor" (a key word for JFK) despite/because-of these problems. It's only recently that the inner circle has felt comfortable talking about it.

jordanbaucke2• 14 years ago

They should put up Obama's application to Harvard...or Occidental and Columbia for that matter.

slurgfest7• 14 years ago

Do we really need every thread that mentions the keyword 'President' to contain this kind of partisan rubbish? I don't see you calling for Reagan's, Bush's or Romney's applications.

tprynn• 14 years ago

His comment doesn't really seem partisan in any way to me. It's just a statement that it would be interesting to see the current president's college applications too, as it would be interesting to see any president's college applications.

jorahmormont• 14 years ago

GWB's yale record and application would be good.

abbasmehdi• 14 years ago

I'd be curious to see Obama's application as well to compare the difference in quality when you don't have a brand name behind you, like Kennedy did.

zbruhnke• 14 years ago

The reason people don't seem to be calling for those applications is because of family ties and connections, there was certainly never speculation that any of those men attended college on a Foreign Exchange scholarship.

I am not a fan of all the political hogwash about Obama not being American etc. I have plenty of gripes with just about every president on their politics alone and he is certainly no different, so for me if I am going to complain it will not be about where he is from or speculation about his birthplace but about his Senate voting record or the fact that his healthcare bill has little to do with Healthcare for the majority of the 2,600+ pages.

But honestly there is no reason to get upset that people are asking. The entire time Bush was in office people were speculating he was a C student and wanting his transcripts, they talked about how he only got in because of being a Legacy etc.

The only real difference was that apparently it was ok to pick on Bush, just do not do it to Obama since that somehow is not fair?

When you take the highest office in the land you open yourself up to scrutiny if you or your supporters cannot handle that then simply do not run.

President Obama was one of the MOST critical people of Geroge W Bush as a sitting president, he of all people should understand people reserve the right to be critical of him as well.

jordanbaucke2• 14 years ago

comment wasn't meant to be partison. I would favor seeing all former president / presidential candidates transcripts regardless of party.

They're hardly relevant anyways as whom someone is when they apply to college (typically 17-18 years old in the US) than whom they are as an adult.

slurgfest7• 14 years ago

If you would favor seeing all transcripts, then why did you choose to single out Obama?

I hope you'll understand why I struggle to believe that this singling-out is purely coincidental in the context of an election season where rhetoric about Obama being 'the least transparent in history' is abundant, on the same weekend as a new movie which claims to dig up sinister anti-American mysteries from Obama's past. It is just terribly convenient to bring up such issues as a topic change.

In any case I find it very irritating that almost any HN article tangentially touching on the government is co-opted for some kind of biased political propaganda, however subtle.

andreasvc3• 14 years ago

Please don't use 'whom' gratuitously.

jontas2• 14 years ago

I'm curious: does anyone know the context of the grades in the application? I saw actual grades listed in three places (pages 3, 17 and 26). He seems to have received scores ranging from 50-85. Are these out of 100? If so, it appears he wasn't a great student. He was ranked 65th out of 110 students (page 17).

I'm not questioning his intelligence, he was clearly brilliant. However, I find it interesting that he was an underachiever in high school (something I'm sure the HN community can empathize with).

The letter from his father (page 13) says:

"Jack has a very brilliant mind for the things in which he is interested, but is careless and lacks application in those in which he is not interested. This is, of course, a bad fault. However, he is quite ambitious to try and do the work in three years. I know how the authorities feel about this and I have my own opinion, but it is a gesture that pleases me very much because it seems to be the beginning of an awakening ambition"

I feel like this statement would've been equally accurate on my own college applications.

zerostar07• 14 years ago

One can certainly question his performance at that age. It's kind of reassuring actually, not all great people have to be born such.

However, why would his father write things like that?

ojiikun• 14 years ago

I can't speak for Harvard in particular, but back in the '30s, grade inflation hadn't yet taken hold, so it was quite normal for there to be many students with Cs, rather than 90% As like today.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/14/the-history-of-...

abalone• 14 years ago

That doesn't explain his middle-of-the-pack class ranking. Even at a prestigious boarding school that's not exactly "Harvard material". (Well, I guess it is...)

Clearly he got in because of family connections.

wilfra4• 14 years ago

In which quarter of the class is he? 3rd

What number out of 110 students is he? 85th

What honors has he won in literary or scholastic pursuits? None

So JFK was basically just George W. Bush. Interesting.

joshAg2• 14 years ago

those are his high school grades, not his university grades.

wilfra4• 14 years ago

This is his application to Harvard. Of course they are his high school grades...

heyrhett• 14 years ago

Also, he went to Choate, which is the most elite boarding school in the country.

jowiar• 14 years ago

Not sure the causality here, and I can't verify the citation on wikipedia, but from 1918-1928 2/3 of Choate graduates went to Harvard, Yale, or Princeton. Presumably by 1935 things were much the same. The number I would be much more interested in seeing in the context of this is what percentage of Harvard applicants were accepted.

That said, Harvard, 1935 was far different from Harvard 2010: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/books/review/06brooks.html

barking2• 14 years ago

There are other abilities that are not measured by tests, such as the ability to get on with people, humility, courage, willingness to learn from mistakes, insight, etc.

According to Robert McNamara, JFK's ability to empathise with the Russians' position was very important in resolving the cuban missile crisis. As was his courage in facing down the military who wanted to attack cuba.

Presumably he had also learnt from his mistake in authorising the Bay of Pigs invasion, a project he inherited on coming to office.

wilfra4• 14 years ago

George W. Bush wasn't a one dimensional idiot either. He had a lot of charisma and people skills and is probably one of the highest Presidents of all time on the 'would like to have a beer with him' barometer, even now.

I always thought of JFK as more like Obama (or rather, I thought of Obama as like JFK). As in, a genius. It is pretty clear from this application that a genius he was not.

jermaink• 14 years ago

P. 23 'please accept my thanks for your help ?'

abecedarius• 14 years ago

I liked the answer to "Why do you want to go to Harvard?" Shortened:

"Several reasons: Harvard is cool. Harvard is really cool. My dad went to Harvard. And then I could name-drop Harvard too."

dubrock• 14 years ago

However poor his grades, Harvard still had an interest in admitting him as a legacy, and it paid off.

lordlicorice• 14 years ago

The "Dear Sir" and "Mr." built into the form letter on page 7 caught my eye. That's not something you see anymore.

JoeAltmaier4• 14 years ago

Its easy to be critical of JFK's admission to Harvard as a result of priviledge. I think it natural and correct.

Lots of people go to Harvard, ordinary (my niece) and priviledged. Those with money and power, use it to get good things for their progeny.

Else why gain money and power? Its not just scorekeeping. If I can't work hard to get better things for my children, then its all a game.

In a free market things are for sale, and good things cost more. Harvard is a private institution. They use legacy, money, ability about equally as admission standards. And it has served them well.

superuser25• 14 years ago

>They use legacy, money, ability about equally as admission standards.

No they don't. Harvard, like just about every university these days, has need-blind admissions.

http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/inde...

As a middle-class high school senior, I would like to point at that Harvard's net price per year for me would be ~$13,000, or roughly half the in-state price of my local state school, the University of Wisconsin (~$24,000). The notion that Harvard favors the rich is BS as far as I can tell. I think it's a bit more likely the rich more consistently pressure and enable their children to prepare.

jbapple• 14 years ago

> >They use legacy, money, ability about equally as admission standards.

> No they don't. Harvard, like just about every university these days, has need-blind admissions.

"Need blind" doesn't imply "legacy blind" or "blind to the political connections of the applicant's family". Harvard may not distinguish between someone who can pay and someone who can't, but I would be surprised if they didn't distinguish between someone who can pay for tuition and someone who can pay for a new wing of the library.

JoeAltmaier4• 14 years ago

Wow, who do you know? My niece cost double that, as I recall.

JFK's Application to Harvard

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