I got a remote job for a EU company, I'd find it hard to go back to a US-based

https://www.businessinsider.com/remote-work-european-company-us-work-life-balance-2025-6

by nixass • 1 year ago

58 83 1 year ago

bloqs• 1 year ago

wonder what the pay difference is

Wait till someone gets a serious disease (as it happens in many families) and lose their home, car, and their shirt because US healthcare is ....(crickets).

Also, imagine a woman having a baby and going back to work on Monday, and having to pay a full salary for care.. insane right?? Who needs babies.

But sure, salary difference..

lmz• 1 year ago

They're working remote from the US so not sure how your first point is relevant.

elmerfud3• 1 year ago

I'm not saying that all US companies offer decent healthcare options, but that's often because employees don't value that as a negotiation point. I did, and my son was in a horrible car crash and died after many days in ICU and many surgeries. My out of pocket cost was a few thousand to hit the max. Because I cared about healthcare coverage instead of a slightly higher salary.

People often forget that freedom of choice in the marketplace is freedom to allow some people to make dumb choices or bad choices. Often times when I hear people complaining about the lack of health care in the US It's because they prioritize short-term gains over budgeting for health care. They're gambling with their health, most people win but some people lose and they lose hard. They're hindsight isn't that they teach people that they should get health care and prioritize that in their budget. Rather they talk about socializing the costs because their irresponsibility somehow a burden to every other responsible person in society.

sokoloff• 1 year ago

She works in people ops, where I’d expect the US pay premium to be low or non-existent, at least as compared to tech.

poisonborz4• 1 year ago

The whole point is that this doesn't matter, it's a much less important factor than US employees would assume.

jeroenhd• 1 year ago

Michigan's average salary is a it below Austria's average salary. Not having American costs covered (healthcare etc) may change the salary impact a little.

It's hard to tell without knowing what she does exactly, but as a white collar worker for a tech company she'll probably be earning similar to other white collar workers in Michigan.

You won't be able to enjoy the same comfort working for a Bulgarian company in Silicon Valley, but this seems like a rather balanced pick.

ghusto4• 1 year ago

When you find out, don't forget to factor in everything else she gets.

The things your higher salary gets you can be had _right this instant_ if you took a different job with a (potentially) lower salary. Money doesn't make you feel good, the things money can _get_ you makes you feel good, and they are often free!

onel• 1 year ago

Not everything in life is about money

supriyo-biswas2• 1 year ago

I'm not disputing the title per se as I have not worked for EU companies. Having said that, news articles of this sort usually interview a few people and then has the journalist draw a conclusion by way of storytelling.

However, this article seems like an ad for a single company, where they post a direct link to their careers section and even heap praise on the interview experience, which is unusual unless the person is specifically talking about their career to another prospective employer or to an otherwise "professional" audience.

ericmay• 1 year ago

That’s because it is an advertisement.

buran77• 1 year ago

The points are generally applicable to any decent employer in the EU and most non-EU European countries, white collar work in particular. This is the norm not because companies are so much nicer. Most of this is codified in law. Some countries have better conditions than others. Minimum vacation period, paid overtime, the healthcare system, the public pension system, job security (protections from dismissal), employee representatives or union, etc. Your mileage may vary if you work remotely.

The obvious drawback is the difference in pay. European salaries are lower for the same job. Probably still lower even relative to real hours worked.

There's a less tangible and harder to quantify benefit of not having to deal with the same kind of job related stress a US worker has to deal with. The boost in quality of life that can't be gleaned from the size of your house or number of cars you own. So it's hard to factor that in when making a data driven comparison.

paulcole2• 1 year ago

I love it when HR commenters discover PR.

supriyo-biswas2• 1 year ago

The question then is why there's an advertorial on the front page? :)

ghusto4• 1 year ago

I couldn't my finger on this myself, but you nailed my feelings well.

Having said that, it doesn't make anything she's said inaccurate in itself, and I would even back up her take. I've worked for and with a few US companies, and ... jeeesh.

I feel the main cultural difference is that people here _presume_ you're doing your best, whereas in the USA people feel like they have to _prove_ they're doing their best.

r0ckarong• 1 year ago

"I didn't feel appreciated when I got sold back into slavery."

constantcrying4• 1 year ago

When will Americans realize that the EU is not a monolithic bloc? She worked for an Austrian company and benefited from Austrian laws and work culture.

messe• 1 year ago

I would challenge you to find a country in the EU that has worse worker protections than the US, whether through statute or culture (for example norms about unionization).

I live in Denmark at the moment, and if my company wanted to lay me off without cause, they would have to give me three months notice. I have 6 weeks of vacation (with the option to take more unpaid; this 6 weeks is not including public holidays), private health insurance on top of the public health system through my company, pension both public and private, have no practical restrictions on sick leave, and work 37.5 hours a week (much of which can be done remotely). I have not once been asked to, or needed to work overtime, or be on-call unpaid. When I return home from work, unless I have planned to put a few remote hours in (to reduce my time spent at the office that week), I am neither expected nor required to answer emails or messages.

If I do lose my job, I will still receive a significant portion of my salary for a year, thanks to insurance through my union (I work as a software engineer).

constantcrying4• 1 year ago

The working culture and laws between Bulgaria and Denmark are drastically different. It is absurd to talk about Denmark as if it were universal EU law. What you are experiencing is particular to Denmark. It is Danish law and work culture you are benefitting from.

makeitdouble• 1 year ago

It's not monolithic, but with freedom of movement inside its bound, it creates enough competition it's structurally harder to have any single country with really bad labor laws.

jxjnskkzxxhx• 1 year ago

When will Europeans realize that the USA is not a monolithic bloc?

ACS_Solver• 1 year ago

The EU is not a monolithic bloc, we have vast differences in overall culture, language, politics and more. Economy as well of course. To me, used to the northern parts, a place like Italy certainly feels foreign because so much is different. But employment laws are not as different as that.

Four weeks (20 days) of vacation is an EU-mandated minimum even if some countries give more. Parental leave varies a lot, but the EU minimum is 14 weeks of maternal and 2 weeks of paternal leave. The concept of "five sick days" or whatever other number doesn't exist in the EU, sick leave policy varies by member state but it's never limited to a few days. At-will employment likewise doesn't exist for normal jobs, there's no firing people on a whim because you don't like their work, and there's no place with less than a month's notice.

Healthcare is a bit different as it couldn't apply to a remote US worker, but still worth mentioning. The EU is very non-monolithic in the organization, quality and culture of healthcare, but each country has some kind of universal coverage model and so you cannot lose healthcare access by losing your job.

ghusto4• 1 year ago

Sure there are cultural differences between countries, but everything she said applies to all EU companies as far as my experience goes. Work life balance, work not being identity, holidays, etc. it's all applicable to every country in the EU I've worked in regardless of the local culture.

newswasboring• 1 year ago

I have worked for a european tech giant for over six years now. And when talking to my US friends, this is the biggest difference I have seen.

In the US, it can often feel that your work is your identity. My European colleagues take pride in their work and are extremely hard workers, but their job is one facet of their identity.

In a non-office setting, I would sooner introduce myself as an improviser and bouldering enthusiast than an engineer. Although, I am the kind of person who codes to relax, not letting my job take over my identity is my last resistance in this boring dystopia.

edit: forgot a negation which totally changed the meaning of last sentence.

NalNezumi• 1 year ago

This difference is probably also why my brother who moved to US, and Now back to Europe (with his American wife) struggle with European colleagues.

They're both passionate about their work (game devs usually are) but feel like no one at their office share that sentiment. When it's 5Pm, even before deadline, people just leave. During breaks, they rather talk about local football teams than most recent news about their profession.

So that's the other side of the coin

spacemadness• 1 year ago

Leaving at 5pm seems entirely reasonable to a non workaholic. When is a reasonable time that you think people should leave to prove their worth I wonder. At some point it’s a performative race to the bottom. And yes I know the game industry loves to abuse peoples passion by demanding crunch and burning out young engineers for crap pay.

h1fra• 1 year ago

https://archive.ph/tiaLg

farceSpherule• 1 year ago

Business Insider... What a rag of a publication...

creshal• 1 year ago

A German-owned rag, courtesy of Axel Springer SE, the continent's most famous yellow rag sweatshop

mcntsh4• 1 year ago

I've worked for major US companies in the Bay Area/NYC and German companies here in Europe so I feel like I can weigh in here.

In Germany I make way less, it's true, but I have a much higher quality of life and feeling of security here and I'd never willfully move back to the US. There's more to life than money, as they say...

xnx• 1 year ago

I'd never willfully move back to the US

Do you think there's benefit to working for an EU company from the US?

mcntsh4• 1 year ago

Culture. You probably don't have to take PTO for sick days, you probably get a lot of vacation days and won't get pressure not to take them, you probably won't get called past 5 o'clock or on weekends, etc.

nicbou• 1 year ago

I run a website about migrating to Germany. I have to teol people that they should take sick days when they're sick, and that they should not even look at their emails when they're on vacation. It's not just laws, but a culture that backs them up.

A favourite fact of mine is that if you're sick when on vacation, you get your vacation days back.

mcntsh4• 1 year ago

My favorite is the right to go to part time work after 6 months. People don't realize the 4 day work week already exists in Germany if you want it.

cardanome2• 1 year ago

I mean there are still toxic companies in Germany as well. There are people who are too scared to take their sick days.

Worker's rights are vastly better in Germany than the US but that is a very low bar to set.

If you work at at a company with strong union presence and Betriebsrat, yes, you will have a good life. That is not the reality for most people though. If you work for a smaller company in some low skilled job, your life will be vastly different.

Social security and worker's right have constantly been attacked politically in the last decades and are chipped away piece by piece. The public health care system has be systematically and purposely weakened to the point that it is close to collapse.

Germany is still one of the better countries to live and work in but not as great as it used to be. But that is true for most countries thanks to the rise of neoliberalism.

jonmil3• 1 year ago

Any advice for an American in BigTech looking to move to Europe? I've been applying for EU jobs for awhile but that seems like a lottery

BrandoElFollito3• 1 year ago

First choose your country. It will be much more difficult to get a job in France than in, say, Poland for an American (because of how the US is perceived)

Then you need to look at the company and see if they already have some US staff. Some do, some don't.

Finally you must have a very unique set of skills to be taken into consideration. We have plenty of excellent people in high tech.

Finally, but you know that already, you raw pay will take a huge cut.

wenc• 1 year ago

I've never worked in Germany, but I worked for the U.S. branch of a German multinational company, reported to a German manager and visited Germany a couple of times.

Living in Germany felt like it wasn't for me. There is very little diversity in ethnic foods (doner kebaps and Italian was about as ethnic as it got, outside of a sprinkling of Chinese restaurants), and everything felt really old (in a conservative way -- not in an artistic way like in Paris). Foodies would struggle with Germany (great breads, sausages, pork, and beer but nothing else stands out).

German management was also not for me -- it felt really old-fashioned compared to American management, and it was hard to do anything new -- there were a lot of gatekeepers where it was their way or the highway. Ideas would get discussed and blocked at every turn, and there were lots of rigid egos.

The U-Bahn/S-Bahn/ICE train systems there were good (undoubtedly, better than anything in America), but compared to Asia or other parts of Europe, they felt a bit old and not really that punctual. The whole place just lacked dynamism.

It's ironic because I've admired Germany all my life. This is, after all, the land of Gauss, Bach, Goethe, Beethoven, etc. It's the land of great physicists and chemists.

Yet there is a sense that what was once great about Germany (all the great thinkers, high tech, etc.) is not really at the forefront anymore. Instead, I saw a nation resting on its laurels, and accepting too much bureaucracy in many aspects of life.

If I was into doing lifestyle optimization, I feel I'll find a decent, if unexciting, life in Germany where my basic needs are taken care of.

But I feel if you really want to work on something new and exciting, that's not the place to be. (I was in Munich where the money is but people are conservative when it comes to new things. I heard Berlin is much more innovative but generally have no money to scale).

BrandoElFollito3• 1 year ago

It of course depends on the company, area and vertical but yes, there is a lot of stiffness. German humour is not mainstream:)

But every European country has its specificities - in France for instance you have an ungodly controlled chaos and draining bureaucracy (I am French).

Having worked in many, many countries in the world, Europeans cities/companies are on the top for me, all taken into account.

b3ing• 1 year ago

I had this same situation but if you are located in the US they will lay you off accordingly to US laws, which means it can happen anytime, but they will be nicer about it and maybe pay you a month to do nothing, on top of severance pay. The vacation time was high though.

stuaxo2• 1 year ago

I worked in Glu Mobile when EA took them over.

The US folks were all told to leave immediately.

In the UK they had to give us notice and pay, also negotiate with employee representatives.

austin-cheney2• 1 year ago

I have had a federal security clearance since I was a teenager and most of that time it’s been a top secret clearance. Yet, I never worked as a government contractor until my current employment. Huge mistake.

It’s so much better than the corporate world even as a software developer and even with all the draconian security restrictions. Actually, the restrictions are nearly identical to working at a major bank. The primary reason it’s so much better is the people. The people tend to skew much older with far more experience, they tend to be better educated, and they all must have clearances and IT certifications. That eliminates so much of the entitlement, insecurity, and general stupidity I saw in my peers as a 15 year corporate software developer.

glimshe• 1 year ago

How do you solve the catch-22 of security clearance? It seems that a lot of jobs require it but not so many people want to pay for me to get it. Is it possible to get clearance by myself on the side (assume I'm willing to deal with the fees and paperwork)?

austin-cheney2• 1 year ago

No. You must have a sponsor that pays for the clearance. The government officially claims that a secret clearance costs around $3000 and a top secret costs around $15000. That does not include the actual investigation of sending people into the field to perform interviews. The actual costs can be well into 6 figures. You don't want to pay for that.

If you have critical skills then a large contractor like Raytheon or McDonnelL Douglas will gladly pay for it. The cost of the clearance is absolutely worth it to fill a position that drives a project forward.

jcadam• 1 year ago

I worked in defense contracting for most of my ~20 year career up until a few months ago. So I'm experiencing this culture shock the other way around. Being the oldest person on a team is... strange.

Still have my clearance for a couple years I suppose - perhaps all this anti-remote madness will be over before then.

I got a remote job for a EU company, I'd find it hard to go back to a US-based

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