Things Are Bad at Tesla. They're About to Get Much Worse

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2025/03/27/things-are-bad-at-tesla-theyre-about-to-get-much-worse/

by n1b0m • 1 year ago

32 43 1 year ago

forbes.com

n1b0m• 1 year ago

Summary:

https://youtu.be/_SKaBwmHq9Y?si=tUMKzL9X_VNc6Pj_

ninjin-carh• 1 year ago

https://archive.md/HTFE4

joejohnson2• 1 year ago

BYD makes nicer cars at a cheaper price. The only advantage Tesla has is protectionism in the US market.

readthenotes1• 1 year ago

-- “China had a plan when they let Tesla have a fully owned factory. They wanted the technology and the knowledge and experience. With that came a risk China would take that technology and build better stuff,” said shareholder Ross Gerber, CEO of Gerber Kawasaki Wealth and Investment Management. “That’s exactly what they’re doing. Now they’ve got really competitive vehicles, really competitive technology and the vehicles are cheaper.” --

And BYD had a leg up...

jordanb• 1 year ago

This has been going on for decades. Any adult in Tesla management should have known that the chances of this happening were 100%.

lloyds_barclays• 1 year ago

This is what Beijing government did on high speed railway system. Global railway manufactures were asked to hand over their technology, then they can begin to build, ship, and run their rolling stocks on Chinese railway. Beijing did this in early 2000s, and now they dominated the high speed railway standards in many countries.

joejohnson2• 1 year ago

This is nonsense to smear Chinese companies and perpetuate this idea that they aren’t innovative and only steal.

Anyway, didn’t Tesla give away these patents?

https://medium.com/@mk_26304/the-genius-behind-teslas-patent...

A_D_E_P_T• 1 year ago

The US, for all its "free market" pretensions, doesn't really do capitalism very well.

What people are now seeing in China, with the rise of more than a half-dozen EV companies in competition with each other, would be impossible in the US. We've got nascent protectionism, total non-enforcement of anti-trust laws (and a very slow and very cowed judiciary,) a complex+selective regulatory environment, and industrial policies that shift with the weather. American manufacturing firms like Tesla and US Steel no longer know how to compete on the merits. And big tech, like big pharma, is a game where small firms are inevitably bought before they can possibly threaten the entrenched major players.

benguild• 1 year ago

Are TikTok users being steered to anti-Elon content as retaliation for DOGE or something?

meltyness• 1 year ago

I definitely have heard a frazzled shift in tone from the fine folks at donation-centered talk-oriented journalism folks which I have listened to obsessively for years.

I think it's OK, if there's a lion hollering you might need some gravity and momentum to hear it and they are certainly trying to find the new polarity.

stephen_g• 1 year ago

I’m seeing a huge upswell in organic hate for Musk over the last little while across a bunch of forums online, as well as people making jokes about him in real life (this is in Australia), and the dropping Tesla sales seem to be confirming the trend.

So the simplest explanation is not anyone ‘steering’ anything, but just that he’s absolutely trashed his own reputation outside what is a fairly narrow political persuasion internationally…

(The kind of pro-Trump style conservatism is fairly large in the US but a much smaller minority in much of the rest of the world, and of course the overlap of that and people who would buy EVs is even smaller)

ozmodiar• 1 year ago

This even under sells it a bit. Trump style conservatism has turned toxic and Musk is heavily associated with its worst aspects (think the "salute"). I think a lot of Americans just don't get how angry the constant threats of tarrifs and attacks is making people. For a mental exercise they should try imagining how mad people were about egg prices, then imagine how much angrier they'd be if on top of that their largest partner started talking about wanting to explicitly ruin their economy if not outright invade them. It's insanity.

AndrewDucker• 1 year ago

He's making his own perfectly well.

jqpabc1235• 1 year ago

To be such a smart guy, Musk does some really dumb stuff --- like alienating most of his customer base. Like investing billions to build an auto manufacturing academy for the Chinese --- now his primary competition.

The article highlights Tesla marketplace trouble --- but it ignores the other half of a "double whammy" that envelopes Tesla.

While Musk was busy shooting his company in the foot, investors were buying his stock like crazy. And not just the "dumb money" retail investors but also the "professional" institutional investors who do this for a living. They now hold 70% of TSLA stock.

The P/E of TSLA is around 130. The P/E of GM, Ford and Toyota are all less than 10. In other words, TSLA is outrageously overpriced --- by a factor of at least 10. If TSLA was valued like other car companies (90% of TSLA revenue is from auto sales), would Musk look like a business genius? I don't think so.

Tesla's stock price and Musk's business persona are dangling by a thread being held up by these "professional investors". In my opinion, out of fear for their upcoming performance bonuses.

Once this thread is cut, Musk will own one of the worst self inflicted financial disasters in the history of business.

Agingcoder• 1 year ago

I understand his shares are collateral for his various other ventures ( and most likely personal expenses ) - a Tesla stock crash might have other consequences

dkjaudyeqooe2• 1 year ago

That's why he had to "sell" X, he was facing margin calls on this Tesla stock and would have been forced to sell stock.

itsdrewmiller2• 1 year ago

If TSLA was valued like other car companies (90% of TSLA revenue is from auto sales), would Musk look like a business genius?

Yes? In that world he built tesla into only a 60 billion dollar company, along with his work at X/paypal and SpaceX. That's still incredible. (Obviously that skill hasn't transferred to government work though.)

jqpabc1235• 1 year ago

In that world he built tesla into only a 60 billion dollar company

Only $60 billion??? You're selling him way short.

At it's peak earlier this year, Tesla market cap was $1.5 TRILLION --- valued at more than all the world's major auto manufacturer's COMBINED. All while commanding only about 4% of unit sales.

Can you say O-U-T-R-A-G-E-O-U-S-L-Y over priced?

Since then, TSLA has lost almost half it's value --- and by any sane measure, it is still OUTRAGEOUSLY over priced.

watwut• 1 year ago

His work in X was failure (except of political goal of raising up far right) and he seemed to be more of obstacle in paypal then reason for success.

happytoexplain• 1 year ago

It seems more like he simply doesn't care very much about the money side of things. I.e. he simply values what he's doing ("fixing" government, championing the current tone of the right, etc), and believes the business-side impact is worth it. He also may believe that the long-term impact isn't as bad as it seems because this all might enlarge the right-wing part of his customer base.

mingus88• 1 year ago

Conservatives by definition are not prone to paradigm shifts.

I own an EV truck and I simply cannot comprehend the animus from “truck guys”. Here is a vehicle made in a U.S. factory, powered by 100% US energy, no foreign oil, with towing capacity, torque and top speed that puts legacy vehicles to shame.

But for reasons that only make sense inside their political bubble, these trucks are threats to their way of life.

Musk’s concept vehicles with nothing but flat screens that promise to take the burden of driving away from us entirely are never going to catch on with heartland Americans.

jqpabc1235• 1 year ago

It seems more like he simply doesn't care very much about the money side of things.

Yes, that certainly does explain his substantial history of charity, benevolence and ethical business practices.

https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/12/elon_musk_appeals_voi...

kreetx3• 1 year ago

Tesla stock buyers are buying it for future promise, thus the value. The other car makers aren't innovating as much so there isn't any perceived future to pull forward and buy.

The disaster you are expecting is just your wishful thinking, if you look around the web, there is an alternate reality that says the direct opposite from you.

JohnFen2• 1 year ago

The reality is that nobody knows what the future will be. Not the person you're replying to, not the investors, not you, not me.

But my gut tells me it's more likely to be the speculative investors who are engaging in wishful thinking. I haven't seen any real reason to suspect otherwise, even before the events of the last couple of years.

jqpabc1235• 1 year ago

if you look around the web, there is an alternate reality that says the direct opposite from you.

If you look around the web, you will see this alternate reality changing rapidly.

https://cleantechnica.com/2025/03/18/another-leading-us-bank...

dkjaudyeqooe2• 1 year ago

Tesla stock buyers are buying it for future promise

Indeed, they're buying into Musk's deep vaporware product line.

I think the robots really took the cake. He wasn't even trying anymore.

maxglute• 1 year ago

IMO if Musk serious about going to mars, being mere richest 100 billionaire from wildly overhyped meme Tesla stock simply isn't enough. The smart play IS what he's doing right now... go for government power and get trillions, not just any government, but US government with trillions to extract. Of course that assumes he can secure his influence medium-long term, but dumb execution = doesn't look like he can survive next 4 years with how many enemies he's making.

morkalork• 1 year ago

You either die trying or live long enough to become the legacy car company

BMc2020• 1 year ago

A lack of compelling new products is also a problem. Tesla’s most recent addition, Musk’s hard-edged Cybertruck that’s become a favorite target of anti-Elon vandals, has been a flop, selling about 40,000 units last year–a fifth of the annual volume Musk predicted. The vehicle has a shockingly bad record for quality, with eight recalls...

politelemon• 1 year ago

Is there a chance BYD would be willing to share its 5 minutes battery technology with other makers? I feel that could bolster the EV market, especially where people don't have charging capabilities at home.

perrohunter• 1 year ago

sight another mainstream article pointing how Tesla will fail, they've been against him since 2017 even before he was somebody, now his track record is undeniable and still they are painting this cynical picture. I'm tired of mainstream media.

satisfice• 1 year ago

I’m tired of mainstream fanboys who ignore his track record of foolish behavior, and assume he is a magical being.

rich_sasha• 1 year ago

“China had a plan when they let Tesla have a fully owned factory. They wanted the technology and the knowledge and experience. With that came a risk China would take that technology and build better stuff,” said shareholder Ross Gerber, CEO of Gerber Kawasaki Wealth and Investment Management. “That’s exactly what they’re doing. Now they’ve got really competitive vehicles, really competitive technology and the vehicles are cheaper.”

They seem to allege that BYD somehow mushroomed on the Tesla secret sauce. But really? It seems to surpass it on all angles.

I'm sure they wouldn't be beyond IP grabbing, but let's give credit where it is due. BYD cars just seem better than Teslas, regardless of subsidies, labour costs and price comparisons.

1vuio0pswjnm7• 1 year ago

https://fortune.com/2025/03/27/anti-musk-bmbper-stickers-tes...

Maybe Tesla short sellers will make a fortune.

Things Are Bad at Tesla. They're About to Get Much Worse

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