If you witness a cardiac arrest, here's what to do

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/the-dose-cardiac-arrest-1.7136483

by colinprince • 1 year ago

56 59 1 year ago

ggm• 1 year ago

Always good to do. Medicos I talk to say two things: you have to press a LOT harder than people think, and when they do it, cracked ribs are normal. And, its really sad, but it just doesnt work sometimes. A lot of times.

Do it, but don't be surprised if it doesn't work. But do it.

Helen Clark, ex PM of NZ tried to save her mountain guide friend up a hill, kept going for an hour or more. When I measure up prime ministers, this is the standard I look for.

unsnap_biceps• 1 year ago

Another thing said by medics that's stuck with me is "you can’t screw up CPR because the person is already dead"

TechDebtDevin2• 1 year ago

Well dang, I guess in hospital success rates for CPR are <20% survival to discharge. Outside of hospital they are < 10% and quickly drop. Sort of terrifying, even though I've done CPR training many times for work I was of the impression that success rates were much higher.

dsymonds• 1 year ago

It's low with CPR alone, but getting an AED involved (which should be accessible in most urban places these days) raises the chances to 50-70%.

mmooss4• 1 year ago

Where can I find those numbers?

sklargh• 1 year ago

Effective CPR is a team effort because it is physically demanding and requires a number of individuals to work other elements of the problem set (airway, medication and access, AED, relief for CPR practitioner, communication with emergency department, police etc...). There is an awful lot to do in these situations and the scenario balloons in players from the first rescuer to the receiving emergency department. The goal should really be continuous motion to a higher level of care vs. getting frozen in place.

I will also note that it is pretty emotionally demanding, particularly given that it's likely to fail, and be coincident with someone else in distress (family member, friend etc...). This is an event you're going to want to put into a box and give yourself some time to work with.

kurthr2• 1 year ago

You're a lot better off, if it's just a Heimlich. They don't say it, but probably much better, if you have access to an AED (most of that remaining 10%).

westurner• 1 year ago

From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39850383#39863280 :

Basic life support (BLS) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_life_support :
> DRSABCD: Danger, Response, Send for help, Airway, Breathing, CPR, Defibrillation
"Drs. ABCD"

From "Defibrillation devices save lives using 1k times less electricity" (2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42061556 :

"New defib placement increases chance of surviving heart attack by 264%" (2024) https://newatlas.com/medical/defibrillator-pads-anterior-pos... :
> Placing defibrillator pads on the chest and back, rather than the usual method of putting two on the chest, increases the odds of surviving an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest by more than two-and-a-half times, according to a new study.

From SBA.gov blog > "Review Your Workplace Safety Policies" (2019) https://www.sba.gov/blog/review-your-workplace-safety-polici... :

Also, consider offering training for CPR to employees. Be sure to have an automatic external defibrillator (AED) on site and have employees trained on how to use it. The American Red Cross and various other organizations offer free or low-cost training.

pestatije3• 1 year ago

whats the liability if you dont?

JumpCrisscross• 1 year ago

Legally or morally?

pestatije3• 1 year ago

legally, in Australia

blindriver• 1 year ago

Like Seinfeld?

redsaz• 1 year ago

Thankfully the episode's interpretation of a Good Samaritan Law is completely wrong, at least in many (most?) US states. They protect citizens acting in good faith to help somebody, not like it was interpreted in the episode to require somebody to help.

bobsmooth• 1 year ago

You probably have a liability to call 911 if you are able to. You're never liable for providing untrained medial assistance but if you're a medical professional that might change.

voidfunc2• 1 year ago

It's been drilled into my head as an American that I should never help anyone. Too much risk.

onemoresoop3• 1 year ago

Is it really? If I help someone am I really risking being sued?

kurthr2• 1 year ago

That's why there are good Samaritan laws.

   No person who in good faith, and not for compensation, renders emergency 
   medical or nonmedical care at the scene of an emergency shall be liable for 
   any civil damages resulting from any act or omission.

https://recreation-law.com/2014/05/28/good-samaritan-laws-by...

JackMorgan2• 1 year ago

In the US, you don't have to do anything. If they are not responsive without a pulse you can legally administer CPR with the "good Samaritan" laws. However it's extremely unlikely to actually work in the best of conditions. We were taught as EMTs that it's really for the bystanders to have something to do. Unless there's an AED, it almost never works, but hey you may as well try.

mmooss4• 1 year ago

If it works 10% of the time, that's unquestionably worth it. What's the cost, sore arms?

SapporoChris• 1 year ago

My concern would be the risk of going into cardiac arrest while performing chest compressions, because the universe has a sick sense of humor.

nayuki• 1 year ago

Here is the non-lite version of the article: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/the-dose-cardiac-arrest-1...

blondin• 1 year ago

thank you!

Springtime• 1 year ago

Useful illustrative graphic in that version of the article for remembering the compression rhythm with a Bee Gees' song mnemonic and required depth.

leeoniya• 1 year ago

remembering the compression rhythm with a Bee Gees' song mnemonic

i prefer the Queen song mnemonic :D

rkagerer• 1 year ago

A few years back while recertifying, I got interested in what the world record was for the longest successful CPR recovery. Found this incident that lasted 4 hours, involving someone who'd gone into hypothermia some hours before:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/christine-tin...

In this case, her lowered body temperature contributed to surviving long enough for rescue.

CPR doesn't have the highest success rate, but it's worth knowing how to do as it can make a life or death difference.

0_____02• 1 year ago

"They aren't dead until they're warm and dead."

M95D• 1 year ago

Survival rates when CPR is applied outsite a hospital is below 10%. About 1/3 of those 10% that survive will have permanent neurological disability and about 50% whish they died instead of having CPR.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/05/29/1177914...

spondylosaurus• 1 year ago

onemoresoop3• 1 year ago

That still leaves a small percentage of those to survive and continue their lives, I’d say it’s worth it. My father was probably killed by CPR as we found out at autopsy that he had aortic aneurism, an aortic fissure that ruptured badly during CPR. And yet ER tried their best and was his only chance of survival.

harrylove• 1 year ago

Also learn the Heimlich maneuver if you can. It’s easy to learn and you don’t need to be certified. Never thought I’d need it but I saved my brother’s life many years ago. An outlier for sure given about 6,000 people in the US die from choking each year, but still.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/21675-heiml...

OutOfHere2• 1 year ago

Heimlich maneuver is good, but it must be done right, and customized for the person. Doing it wrong can cause injury that can kill a person.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9108913/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37695097/

OutOfHere2• 1 year ago

This article fails to mention that if their lungs aren't breathing, you could also do two rescue breaths for every thirty compressions. This will also give you a break from doing all those compressions. Obviously call emergency services before you do anything at all.

If you witness a cardiac arrest, here's what to do

Related Stories