Converting shopping malls into apartments [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1GIF6VNipE

by debo_ • 2 years ago

46 62 2 years ago

ghaff5• 2 years ago

Housing conversions are great and all that. But we're talking 250 sq. ft. units here and not exactly in what a lot of people would consider prime locations. The affordable housing issue is mostly around what people generally consider prime locations.

jasonjayr2• 2 years ago

The Providence Arcade Mall works for this conversion because it is in a prime location in Downtown Providence. There are some pretty high-powered offices near by, RI School of Design is a brisk 5-10 min walk away, Kennedy Plaza, the (for now) central hub for the state's bus system is a 2 minute walk away.

ghaff5• 2 years ago

If you're good with a pied a terre in downtown Providence, this is probably an interesting option. Not sure how common that is.

ADDED: That was probably unfairly snarky. But I'm not sure how many people complaining about housing affordability really have in mind very small places in peripheral cities (even fairly nice ones like Providence).

Mengkudulangsat• 2 years ago

Malls have central HVAC, without which the common areas get dank very quickly. I doubt those can be operated affordably with residential tenants.

binarymax2• 2 years ago

Yeah not just the HVAC but the entire common area maintenance and pro rata property tax is a high portion of commercial rent in malls. A commercial tenant for the same space would probably pay 5x to 10x what an equivalent residential market rate would be.

jasonjayr2• 2 years ago

A vacant space without a commercial tenant is paying 5 x $0, so ... might as well put the space to good use.

neverartful• 2 years ago

I wouldn't want to live a structure shared by such a large number of people (fire hazard risk).

nayuki• 2 years ago

Fire sprinklers are common in buildings that hold hundreds of people. Sprinklers are basically nonexistent in single-family houses. Sprinklers are extremely effective at putting out fires and preventing their spread.

Fun fact: Ontario, Canada started mandating fire sprinklers in 4+ storey residential buildings started in the year 2010. Taking into account the lag in planning, design, and construction, it effectively means that any high-rise apartment building constructed after 2015 has sprinklers, and earlier ones don't.

fngjdflmdflg• 2 years ago

I can see how the apartments showed in the video would appeal to some types of people, although I personally would not like it. The mall is still open and has multiple stores in it that are convenient. When a mall is fully abandoned however I don't see what the appeal would be. And it's not like you can just put up some walls in a store and call it an apartment, work needs to be done to convert it anyway. I'm not sure if there is a clear benefit of retrofitting shops into apartments in a more abandoned mall. Surely there are big costs savings with this approach but there are other factors that would need to be considered.

Animats2• 2 years ago

That worked for the arcade in Providence because it's a pre-airconditioning long, narrow building with exterior windows. But what do you do with a big box the size of a Walmart? Most areas don't allow windowless apartments.

Most successful conversions are of older buildings with small floors and many windows.[1] Modern buildings with a central utility core and large floors are not good candidates for conversion. There have been some attempts at long, narrow apartments to maximize access to the outside walls, but the result is a slum.

Tearing down malls to build apartments is more common than converting the big boxy spaces.

[1] https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/vacant-offices-housin...

yowayb• 2 years ago

Funny you mentioned Wal-Mart because they've already been providing support to an effective housing solution in the form of letting RVs stay in their parking lot.

I've come across many people that this type of housing seems to work quite well for. Of course, I wonder what might be the repercussions? Might require some oversight to prevent devolving into tent cities? But then again, I'm not personally aware of tent cities causing much harm (to anyone outside of the tent city)

gedpeck• 2 years ago

RVs in the parking lot of Walmart is an effective housing solution? I think not.

paulryanrogers• 2 years ago

Plenty of Walmarts have signs posted that prohibit overnight parking

ratg13• 2 years ago

The wal-mart RV parking thing is intended for one night, for people who are on a journey.

It is not in any way shape or form a 'housing solution'

janalsncm2• 2 years ago

But what do you do with a big box the size of a Walmart?

Cut out a square in the center and make it a courtyard. Now you can have windows on the inside and outside.

Animats2• 2 years ago

See "The Sordid History of NYC Air Shafts".[1]

[1] https://www.citysignal.com/the-sordid-history-of-nyc-air-sha...

bobthepanda8• 2 years ago

The late-20th century big box store is also not really a structure designed to last more than a few decades at most. They usually get torn down because they are at end of life and it is cheaper/easier to demolish than invest significant sums.

Enclosed malls have a better shot because they were built with (slightly) higher quality, but none of the strip mall boxes are worth saving.

csomar2• 2 years ago

This looks like a cheap shack house inside an old mall and it's also incredibly small. Value for money is ridiculous. The tenant also doesn't seem very happy with it and only accepting the situation because alternatives are more expensive. You don't need apartments inside a mall. You can a building on top of the mall a 20 story building and have the mall on the first floors. This way the tenants can enjoy full and real apartments while the convenience of the mall is one elevator ride away.

This is not some sci-fi shit, many places in Asia are doing it. The situation in the US is going from sad to pathetic.

mcny• 2 years ago

You can a building on top of the mall a 20 story building and have the mall on the first floors. This way the tenants can enjoy full and real apartments while the convenience of the mall is one elevator ride away.

Absolutely. For anywhere other than the biggest cities, I suspect you don't even need twenty stories if you have enough of these buildings that are about eight to ten stories above the tall first floor for retail AND an excellent public transit infrastructure so you don't need parking lots.

I think the big problem is people don't want bad public transit to replace cars and are rightly skeptical of any plans that promises good results long term after an initial period of pain where we don't have parking space but we also don't have an excellent public transit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed-use_development

Dracophoenix• 2 years ago

You can a building on top of the mall a 20 story building and have the mall on the first floors. This way the tenants can enjoy full and real apartments while the convenience of the mall is one elevator ride away.

Even in Asia, those residential mall complexes usually house very expensive luxury apartments.

csomar2• 2 years ago

Even in Asia, those residential mall complexes usually house very expensive luxury apartments.

No. Some of them are expensive. Most of them are middle-class.

lazyasciiart• 2 years ago

I believe you have to build those apartments at the same time as the mall, no?

tuna74• 2 years ago

This is about converting an already existing mall into something more profitable and productive. If there is not demand for retail space you can convert that into housing instead. It is not "perfect" housing, but it is better than staying vacant.

phire• 2 years ago

Nobody is converting suburban shopping malls into appartments.

The Arcade is a special case, because it's actually a central-city mall, located right in the heart of the city, near a bunch of other apartment and office buildings. It's basically the complete opposite of your typical suburban mall, miles from anywhere, surrounded by way too many parking lots.

The other examples this video briefly touches on are something completely different, and far more interesting. These aren't simple conversions of shopping mall interiors, they are projects that are tearing down large chunks of existing suburban shopping malls (and their parking lots) and attempting to re-invent them as a town centre, with added outdoor shopping, high-density housing (brand new apartment buildings), parks and office space.

It's far more than just converting malls into housing. It's an attempt at a completely new approach.

ghaff5• 2 years ago

The dead or mostly dead malls around where I live don't seem very attractive for housing or mixed residential/retail. They'd still be very car-centric, aren't in especially upscale areas, and I'm not sure how much you'd actually want to preserve.

The closest I'm specifically aware of in the US in Santana Row in the South Bay but that's not really residential (maybe there's some but I'm only aware of the hotels)--and, while there are a fair number of restaurant options--you don't really have groceries or other retail that people would want on a day to day basis AFAIK.

pzo2• 2 years ago

In malaysia a lot of residential buildings are build on top of mall altogether but those are planned ahead from the start and those residential buildings are 40 levels high. 3 levels are mostly reserved for car parking for residents, 1 floor have shared facilities like swimming pool, gym. Top level as playground room or cowork or for organising barbeque or birthday party. Lifts are super fast. Then you have malls attached to those residential buildings and those are usually connected with nearby public transport.

Sadly in western world we don't build such high residential buildings - mostly 5 levels or less than 10 levels with not enough parking places around.

cluckindan2• 2 years ago

That sounds like an arcology.

I would not want to live in an arcology.

madaxe_again3• 2 years ago

My sister lives in one in KL, and describes it as an arcology - and I’ve gotta say, it’s super convenient to not need to leave the building to go grocery shopping, or for pretty much any of the day-to-day services you might need. It’s like a 5 minute city, never mind 15 minute.

And no, residents are not imprisoned.

danlugo922• 2 years ago

There's always been a push/astroturfing online towards dense housing against americans because they know sparse populations are harder to control.

goodpoint2• 2 years ago

I very much want to live in an arcology

otikik• 2 years ago

It's very difficult to escape when the giant spider attacks it.

goodpoint2• 2 years ago

It's very common in many countries in asia and leads to excellent quality of life. You can live without a car and have everything at hand.

Peteragain• 2 years ago

Thanks for the comments - I'd often thought this was a good idea but then.. So perhaps an issue is the distinction between a shopping mall and a shopping centre. Malls have "exterior" windows on the inside overlooking public spaces. Is that sufficient? And also, a place is not a slum while it is desirable, and perhaps the conversion process needs to start when a mall is still a popular destination. Sheffield's Medowhall is a place I'd love an small flat, but the rental per square meter would not allow anything residential ATM.

ted_dunning• 2 years ago

I have a personal beef with the way that Meadowhall contributed to the decline of Sheffield city center and the high streets there. The light rail sucked the transit budget away from other projects as well.

Converting shopping malls into apartments [video]

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