Mega-victory: Kim Dotcom search warrants “invalid,” mansion raid “illegal”

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/06/mega-victory-kim-dotcom-search-warrants-invalid-mansion-raid-illegal/

by evo_9 • 14 years ago

416 127 14 years ago

arstechnica.com

pdeuchler• 14 years ago

Does Dotcom have any legal recourse to sue the FBI/US Gov't if he is found not guilty/the case is thrown out?

People need to realize that this kind of action is not O.K., and those responsible should be brought to justice.

toyg• 14 years ago

Since Mega/Dotcom had no representation in the US (on purpose), I'd say no. He could try going after the NZ police though.

grecy2• 14 years ago

> He could try going after the NZ police though.

According to the judge, the NZ Police clearly broke the law, so he should go after them.

genwin• 14 years ago

The US gov't doesn't have to answer for its crimes, obviously. For example, to achieve everlasting immunity they simply don't subscribe to the international court.

rhizome4• 14 years ago

Nobody can sue the US Government without the US Government's permission.

refurb• 14 years ago

Correct, it's called sovereign immunity.

mkaltenecker2• 14 years ago

US citizens most certainly can.

PerryCox• 14 years ago

Previous discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4170398

w1ntermute6• 14 years ago

I hope Dotcom comes out of this victorious and relaunches MegaUpload. It was the best free one-click hosting site out there - everything available at the moment sucks. Not to mention it would be a wonderful "fuck you" to the US government, abusing its global hegemony for personal purposes.

kintamanimatt2• 14 years ago

If it does relaunch, the constant publicity Kim and MU have been receiving will only help their numbers.

gscott2• 14 years ago

Kim Dotcom might not be going to America but his money has already flown the coop. He is broke now, the United States will keep his money he will never see any of it back. He won't be able to pay for hosting, and because his servers are here in the United States the government won't let him have them back/turn them on.

udp• 14 years ago

You really liked MegaUpload better than Dropbox?

I remembered it as being covered in adverts with long waiting times, capped speeds, no parallel downloads from the same IP address, etc.

Goronmon• 14 years ago

You can't use Dropbox to serve content to more than a handful of people.

w1ntermute6• 14 years ago

File syncing, not hosting, is Dropbox's primary use. Many people have used Dropbox in a manner similar to one-click hosting services, but that is in violation of the spirit (and maybe terms) of the service. Those who use excessive amounts of bandwidth on Dropbox by using it in that manner have been banned. I'd rather not abuse Dropbox when a perfectly good alternative was available.

> covered in adverts

If advertisements concern you, use AdBlock. Or use JDownloader, like I do, and avoid viewing the site entirely.

> long waiting times

If you created a free account, you would only have to wait for 25 seconds, better than the vast majority of other similar sites (MediaFire being one of the few sites that doesn't have a wait time). JDownloader alleviates this issue as well - it supports "logging in" to reduce wait times, and once you've passed it the link, it'll auto-start the download after the wait time.

> capped speeds

Nothing could be further from the truth. MU was one of the only sites that didn't cap speeds. Downloads from MU always maxed out my (24 mbit fiber) connection. Slow download speed is one of the biggest problems with the hosting sites that have remained online.

> no parallel downloads from the same IP address

Considering that it maxed out your connection, this didn't seem to be an issue. JDownloader again - it'll automate serial downloads of a large number of files.

planetguy5• 14 years ago

You do realize that if people like Kim Dotcom ... is that really his name? Fuck him, apparently his name is Kim Schmitz and I don't care what stupid name he changed his name to.

Wait, sorry, I got distracted, let me start my paragraph again.

You do realize that if people like Kim Schmitz win their legal cases it'll just mean a massive push to change the law? If current laws aren't good enough to stamp out things like MegaUpload (which, let's face it, is a massive scale piracy site which exists to make money off other people's IP) then the laws will be changed until they can.

drcube5• 14 years ago

How was MU different from any other cloud storage provider, or for that matter, Google?

They let people store data on their servers and access it over the web from their browser. That's it. You might as well say "Fuck Tim Berners-Lee, if current laws aren't good enough to stamp out things like the Web, then the laws will be changed until they can." Which, frankly, seems to be happening, unfortunately.

jat850• 14 years ago

I'm going to throw in my opinion on the name thing. I welcome disagreement, especially in this specific case, but there have been 3 or 4 different occasions lately where I have seen something similar come up.

Kim Dotcom legally changed his name, for whatever purported reasons (publicity, most likely). He willfully has chosen this as his legal name, and while the name (or his reasons) might be silly or frivolous, I think he is owed the due respect of calling him by his chosen name.

Other noteworthy examples of late have been Ron Artest changing his name to "Metta World Peace" and Chad Johnson to "Chad Ochocinco" (which he may have changed back, I cannot recall at this time).

Their chosen names may too be silly or frivolous, and I have seen media examples where they have called it out and said "forget that, I'm calling him Ron Artest/Chad Johnson, I don't care what his legal name is."

In my belief this is patently disrespectful, in the same way that it was disrespectful for people to call Muhammed Ali "Cassius" after he changed his name, and in the same way it would be disrespectful for me to call you by some name that you did not wish to be called by (legally, for religious purposes, or any other personal reason).

I do fully understand your stance and I wouldn't call it "wrong", I just don't agree with it.

rangibaby• 14 years ago

You do realize that the DMCA, SOPA, PIPA, ACTA etc. were dreamed up without Kim Dotcom winning anything, except maybe a free raid on his house?

J3L24047• 14 years ago

The majority of the HNers believe that there should be no intellectual property at all. Whether this is wise or not hardly matters because changing the law to reflect such a radical position will be virtually impossible. Enforcing the current law is, of course, another matter.

Edit: I could be wrong about the majority of HN but pg clearly feels that way.

grecy2• 14 years ago

> If current laws aren't good enough to stamp out things like mixed race schools, same sex marriage, The right to privacy of your own information, etc. then the laws will be changed until they can.

FTFY

alan_cx• 14 years ago

I agree with your point. However, it will happen anyway. We know they are trying to force draconian laws down our throats already.

As I keep saying, people need to wake up and take some responsibility for allowing our democratically elected governments to treat us the people like their business pawns. Problem is most people dont care because it does not effect them. Never forget the selfish serf serving nature of humans.

Sorry to be biter and negative, but history has left me no option. Government will prioritise business over the rest of us. I mean, banks?

FaceKicker• 14 years ago

So we shouldn't take advantage of current laws because then they might get changed and we wouldn't be able to take advantage of current laws anymore? Hm.

Symmetry2• 14 years ago

The Miranda decision didn't lead people to change the law, and that literally lets people get away with murder, not this moral equivalent of mass jaywalking.

shellox3• 14 years ago

Maybe the service wasn't illegal, but he is still a criminal. Just look up his history what he did to the warez scene with his friend Gravenreuth. He also was involved in other criminal activities, so I don't know how people can say "The poor guy".

I don't think he care much about internet freedom and he would probably sell his mom if he could make money with it.

PS:(google translation of a paragraph on https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Schmitz)

"Schmitz, who claimed to be a "highly talented high school" placed at the boarding school at Plön have visited, in reality, Henry Harms school, a school principal Plön. After leaving school he spent two years in boarding school Rohwedder, a facility for adolescents with behavioral problems."

I would sum him as fat, retarded, wannabe hacker chav with a strange drain to criminal activities, who try to place himself in the center of attention. He couldn't get attention without doing this things, because nobody would give a fuck about him.

untog• 14 years ago

I would sum him as fat, retarded, wannabe hacker chav

I was with you up until this point. None of those things are relevant to whether he engages in criminal behaviour.

SatvikBeri• 14 years ago

Regardless, prosecuting someone in an illegal fashion for something that wasn't a crime is something a government shouldn't do.

sixothree• 14 years ago

Still, breaking the law to prove someone is breaking the law taints your claims; and these claims have taint all over them.

pippy• 14 years ago

I'm very proud of the ingenuity of New Zealands high court. So far the government, police and court systems have all bent over backwards to the Americans.

It's nice to know at least one public service still serves the people.

rdl• 14 years ago

I think you mean integrity, not ingenuity.

koide• 14 years ago

and by Americans, you mean people of the United States of America.

I wish police and court systems all around the world bent over backwards to the chileans, mexicans, peruvians, bolivians, etc.

wissler• 14 years ago

The US government has successfully destroyed the world's largest storage medium that they couldn't just walk in and spy on without detection (US-based companies are subject to The Patriot Act and other "laws" that stand in defiance of The US Constitution).

I don't see how this counts as a "victory." It is probably all part of the game plan.

flyinRyan4• 14 years ago

But on the good side, it should be harder to get other countries to simply play the bitch and do whatever the US says in future.

njharman• 14 years ago

That's not how these things work. Governments don't give up. Next time they will not make same mistake or get laws passed so this is no longer mistake/illegal or just do it again the same and gamble they get a more cooperative judge.

zaphar• 14 years ago

I'm curious now. Does the warrant being invalid open the US up to a class action suite from people who lost data? I know nothing about the law regarding this sort of thing but its what immediately leaped to my mind when I saw this article.

[Edit: spelling]

maeon3• 14 years ago

Kim will get his servers and hardware back.... Pulverized to pieces by the might of a legion of pissed off FBI data workers who had their power checked and found lacking. You gotta set an example that even when you win a battle against organized crime, they make you pay dearly for every inch.

danielweber• 14 years ago

I thought he had leased them all.

flyinRyan4• 14 years ago

Wonderful! Kim Dotcom doesn't seem like the cleanest of individuals but the US government is even worse. I hope that people in NZ law enforcement suffer enough career damage that other countries think twice before simply bending over for US exceptionalism.

res0nat0r2• 14 years ago

I asked this in the other thread but no one responded so I'll try here again: This appears related to Dotcoms house raid and seizure. Is the raid on all of the servers in VA still valid? I'd assume that is where the majority of all of the evidence in this case lies, and if that is still valid there is still a huge case to be had. Does anyone know?

redthrowaway2• 14 years ago

The raid in VA is "valid" until a US court says otherwise. The NZ court only has jurisdiction over those parts of the case that pertain to NZ, although it has ordered the US to turn over any evidence they have on K.C to his defense. Again, though, that's only as it relates to the extradition process.

_fpkq• 14 years ago

His wife is hot.

vecinu4• 14 years ago

She's only there for his money.

Kim isn't a hero, nice or generous person. He's just a geek with money who is now 'abusing' his new found wealth.

I don't look up to him, personally.

J3L24047• 14 years ago

Well you are one of the few on HN. Although a lot of it is probably more of a hate America thing, which is always popular.

drivingmenuts• 14 years ago

Cold comfort, since the FBI will keep his servers tied up in knots until the end of time and most likely, refuse to pay for the loss of business.

ChuckMcM• 14 years ago

Interesting comment stream.

In one view you have 'America, World Police' being handed a defeat. That is a good thing because I believe that both the precedents the USA is trying to set on the world scene are wrong, they will also come back to roost in unpleasant ways.

In one view you have a victory for the Libertarian Internet which gives us a stronger 'nation independent' view of the Internet, but this is part of a wider set of events which are trying to figure out the role of the 'information-state' if such a thing could exist. This is stuff SF writers have chewed on considerably and to see it in 'real life' is fascinating.

In the third view we have someone who has many of the characteristics of 'nerds' which seem to have taken on some of the aspects of a counter culture.

The interesting things is that this fiasco has neatly tied together three on-going 'conversations' [1] about the autonomy of the Internet, the role of nation states in world government, and the rise of 'nerd culture'.

As we enter the 'post-American' century the discussion of world government will be be, by far, the most influential on our day to day lives, but the autonomy of the Internet will also become a central theme, much as human rights is a central theme in our interactions. The story of Kim Dotcom will then fade to being the tag line for one of the things that shaped how we feel about the first two.

[1] The term 'conversations' here is used to indicate that its a topic of discussion at all levels of our society with various competing views fighting for dominance as the 'group consensus'. This is also the name of the process by which a community arrives at a common understanding much like two people conversing about the topic might come to a consensus.

adamsmith• 14 years ago

If the 150 TB's slowed down local law enforcement enough to make them mishandle the warrant, any bets on how many petabytes he'll have waiting for them next time? : )

Mega-victory: Kim Dotcom search warrants “invalid,” mansion raid “illegal”

Related Stories