Professional Starcraft Team releases documentary with pay-what-you-want model

http://www.teamliquidpro.com/liquidrising/

by mwilcox • 14 years ago

77 52 14 years ago

teamliquidpro.com

sliverstorm• 14 years ago

Maybe this is because I'm only a casual SC2 player, but it seems like there is a big flaw here- what are we buying?

Sure, it's a video. And it has something about Team Liquid.

...

???

apaitch• 14 years ago

Team Liquid is a rather popular professional gaming team, especially in Starcraft 2. I doubt anyone would end up on their website not knowing who they are (why would you go to teamliquid.com just for kicks?) so it's not that bad of a flaw.

jmduke• 14 years ago

Because you were referred to the site by a link on HN, for one.

hkmurakami• 14 years ago

FYI, the proper domain is teamliquid.net

gcp• 14 years ago

doubt anyone would end up on their website not knowing who they are

Their community forum is the most popular non-Korean place for strategy discussion. I think many people get here without particularly caring about TeamLiquid itself.

dangrossman• 14 years ago

It's a documentary about Team Liquid. If you know what a documentary is, and you know who Team Liquid is, you know what you're getting.

Look at the "biographical documentaries" category on Netflix: the descriptions are mostly in the form of "[narrator name] brings you the [adjective] story of [topic]" with little or no elaboration.

kingofspain• 14 years ago

And I don't watch half of them unless I'm bored and desperate for something, anything, to watch in a hotel room.

They could put up a quick blurb and a trailer. I'll spend a few minutes on a trailer for virtually anything. Especially for a 'pay what you want' movie. The fact that it's about a subject I've so far had no interest in is irrelevant if it looks like a decent film.

Lorin• 14 years ago

To be fair after the first 15 minutes it isn't much of a documentary, more of an interview of the individual players. Not much of a story line.

neotorama• 14 years ago

JD557• 14 years ago

Well, you can watch it first and pay later... I don't think there's any better way to know what you are buying. :)

MikeCapone• 14 years ago

I've seen it and it's pretty good. I wish it had more of "following player X during a tournament day", but instead it's more based on interviews of all the members of the team. Still, worth the time and money (whatever you decide to pay for it).

franzus4• 14 years ago

Wow, what a great way to waste your life.

AlisdairO2• 14 years ago

One could take that perspective about most forms of entertainment.

franzus4• 14 years ago

Yes but entertainment per se is not bad - if you don't devote your life to it. Nothing against playing one or two rounds SC2 but becoming a "pro player" is so disgustingly wasteful. Imagine what you could create with all the time devoted to gaming instead.

Dn_Ab• 14 years ago

I lament the overlarge emphasis on entertainment careers by the general populace as much as anyone who will lament such things but.

Humanity must progress more than technologically, it must also progress culturally. What point is there to conquer diseases and have personal fusion if there is no entertainment to relax with? Some people enjoy relaxing by watching impressive displays of human ability; whether it be in sports, athletics, dancing or games. I do not watch much sports and not at all games but I can at least admire the mental acuity, precision reflex, long and short range planning and working memory of the top performers. But for the people who watch it I am sure it brings them enjoyment and happiness. That is a definite contribution to humanity.

There should be a profusion of ethical (not to be confused with politically lobbied) cultural artifacts to match the diverse whims and interests of humanity. A future where there is only a limited amount of scheduled scientifically approved things to do is not a future to look forward to.

mwilcox• 14 years ago

How is this wasting your life? These guys are young - instead of working low paid, boring jobs to pay off student debt and finance an alcohol addiction they're doing something they love, travelling the world, making some money, all while they're barely out of high school. None of these guys will have any problems getting into a reputable university if they choose to study, and they are even building their own brands & networks (through sponsors etc) that they can use once they stop playing.

tinco• 14 years ago

It teaches young people that with hard work and persistance one can achieve amazing feats. I think it is rather inspiring.

Besides, even if they didn't, and were just on some net community making lame comments and contributing nothing of worth to the world, who says they have to?

marcamillion2• 14 years ago

This is one of the reasons I love e-sports and the SC2 scene in general.

TOTAL CONTRIBUTIONS $39,972.81 ESPORTS Heroes

2. EvilGeniuses $666.00

For those that don't know...EvilGeniuses are a "rival" Pro SC2 team. It's awesome that they can support Liquid (and e-sports in general, I guess) like this.

trafficlight• 14 years ago

A rising tide lifts all boats.

I really think all of the SC2 teams take that to heart.

marcamillion2• 14 years ago

Agreed.

aw3c22• 14 years ago

Direct link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R2Ep6L5gIA

It is edited a bit annoyingly but shows a nice view into the personalities of a esports "family of friends". Definitely recommended.

cdr• 14 years ago

I'm a little disappointed there's no direct download (at least that I can see) for something they're asking money for. Could rip the youtube video I guess, but that's extra hassle and probably against the youtube TOS.

aw3c22• 14 years ago

If you are on Linux http://code.google.com/p/get-flash-videos/ is super easy and convenient.

I agree about your disappointment.

jiggy20115• 14 years ago

Slight OT:

I don't understand why Starcraft has such a big "Pro" scene compared to other RTS games, many of which are more sophisticated (e.g Total Annihilation/Supreme Commander).

Most of my experience playing Starcraft (the original) online was that the winner tended to be the one who could spam the most units out of the gate rather than any particular strategical cleverness.

thisisnotmyname• 14 years ago

I think it is because Blizzard is so careful about balancing the game, resulting in an immense diversity of available strategies. These become apparent once both players are sufficiently close enough in skill to be able to "spam" the same number of units out.

codehotter• 14 years ago

I have played starcraft for ten years and reached a reasonable high level of skill. To be a good starcraft player, you need to be skilled in three broad areas

~~~

- Good mechanics and multitasking

This is your ability to have your units do what you want. You want unit X to go to place Y, you are quickly able to give that command, without taking up much of your attention. You're also able to simultaneously build units, advance your build at home, harass your opponent, reposition units, look at the minimap, and micromanage where necessary. Top players can have more than 5 actions per second average.

- Good micromanagement and tactical skill

For example, your ability to spread your units to take less damage from area of effect spells, focus fire on the most important enemy targets to get them down faster, your ability to position your units for flanking, to keep a scouting unit alive while being chased, etc. Maximizing the effectiveness of individual units.

- Good macromanagement and strategical skill

Your ability to advance your build at home correctly (what most effectively counters the opponent), to spend all your resources and not have it stack up in the bank, to choose the correct timings for expanding across the map or amassing an army, and to anticipate your army composition for what your opponent will do.

~~~

If you expect to be playing a game of chess, you'll be far behind even in the first few minutes. Your opponent's scouting unit micromanages and interrupts your build without your being able to kill even the scouting unit, and while your concentration is on the harassing unit, your opponent, who can multitask, executes his build perfectly.

Without a base level of competence mechanically (which in starcraft is about 2 effective actions per second) you cannot even compete strategically.

All three of these areas impress viewers which makes for a very 'spectatable' game.

Good mechanics and multitasking are evident when, after you've watched a battle, you can see how many more units the top player has been able to produce - while he was simultaneously micromanaging his units in battle.

Micromanagement, at least in starcraft, is very fun to watch. You can see the small army outmanoeuvre the larger enemy by individual control of units - it's hard to explain why it is impressive in just words, but the joy of watching good micromanagement is a core feature of spectating starcraft games. Watch for example here, how the player's marines dodges the spines while he keeps shooting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQtPMLOctBg

Starcraft has a lot of 'soft counters' - units that counter other units but not completely. The focus on soft counters rather than hard counters gives players a lot of strategic freedom. Even if one player's units are countered, he can micromanage them and come out ahead. Or, for example, a player can take a risky early expansion to extra resources and rely on micromanagement of his few units to stay alive.

Finally, since the maps that people play on do change, it takes a while to find the optimal builds, so you do see a lot of really innovative strategic play that people love to watch. I really cannot give any examples on this without explaining many more details about the game. I am interested to hear why you think Total Annihilation would have more sophistication.

I must admit I haven't played many other games, but I have heard people complain that either the micromanagement or the multitasking aspect are not as much on the foreground in other games, and the combination of strategy + intense multitasking + micromanagement has kept starcraft exciting for both players and viewers.

jiggy20115• 14 years ago

Most of this could be applied to any strategy game (C&C etc), for example being able to build efficiently and Micromanage.

I would say that games like TA/Sup Com would seem more "strategical" since they tend to be bigger in the sense that they have bigger maps and bigger , more complex tech trees. You also have more options in terms of setting up queues and automated behaviours for units (patrolling,ferrying etc) which means that you don't have to worry about revisiting your base as often because you have already queued up everything you want built for the next 5-10 minutes. It also allows options such as going into a resource deficit to produce units you cannot afford (but will be built more slowly).

I suppose this could be said to reduce the importance of the "micromanagement" aspects of the game (although these can still be important) but I'm not sure if this is necessarily a bad thing in itself. Professional SC looks to me more like it is being played on the basis of quick reflexes and drilling build orders quickly in a sense closer to an action game where you control a lot of units rather than "strategy" as such, perhaps tactics is a better word.

To me it would seem that as technology advances strategy games should become less about micromanagement, since in a real war the General does not usually micromanage the actions of individual soldiers on the scale of "move left, now fire you gun" etc. Of course a general may make high level decisions such as how to train their soldiers which will affect how they behave in the field etc and this could be simulated with AI.

rdl• 14 years ago

I far prefer playing Supreme Commander -- by letting you queue, zoom out arbitrarily, etc., it de-emphasizes micro and APM.

I think people just like watching high APM.

corysama• 14 years ago

In this presentation given at the Game Developer's Conference, a designer from SCII describes how they specifically tailored the game to be an e-sport.

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014488/The-Game-Design-of-STAR...

otumm• 14 years ago

this documentary seems rushed and too scripted, maybe it could have learned something from this short video of the broodware scene, in which players were interviewed before and after a major tournament.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D9NYaE0AH4

Professional Starcraft Team releases documentary with pay-what-you-want model

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