America's Space Force Is Preparing for the Risk of War

https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/americas-space-force-is-preparing-for-the-risk-of-war-d6b5e9c7

by bookofjoe • 2 years ago

36 55 2 years ago

bookofjoe2• 2 years ago

https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/americas-spac...

Roark66• 2 years ago

Good. The only thing that can create a lasting peace with authoritarian regimes abound is facing them from a position of strength. As the roman saying goes. Si vis pacem, para bellum.

bovermyer3• 2 years ago

And if the USA becomes one of those authoritarian regimes?

krapp2• 2 years ago

It is, and has been for a long time.

clarionbell• 2 years ago

So you'd rather if they didn't prepare? I'm sorry I don't understand the point of your comment. If USA turns to authoritarian principles, then it won't really matter what Space force does at this point.

amanaplanacanal• 2 years ago

In my techo-anarchist headcanon freedom loving hackers will take down the bad guys.

badpun2• 2 years ago

It’s two different dimensions. A country can be democratic or authoritarian, and also a country can be driven by conquest or not.

For example, USA is a democratic, conquest-driven empire. While Russia is an authoritarian, conquest-driven empire. Living in democratic empires is usually nice for citizens in the metropolis (the USA), while it can be absolutely miserable for the conquered parts (millions killed in SE Asia in countries attacked by USA and its cronies, in Iraq etc.). While, in Russia’s case, life in the metropolis is only somewhat less miserable than in the conquered non-Russian-majority regions.

somenameforme• 2 years ago

This is what America thought all the way up until 1983. That was the year we ran one of the most elaborated and sophisticated war games to date, Proud Prophet. [1] US military policy to date at that point had been trying to compel cooperation through force and displays of strength. So the wargames were to simulate what might happen if this strategy reached its logical conclusion and the Cold War turned hot.

In literally every single scenario that was trialed, you ended up with a rapid escalation to nuclear war, and the complete extermination of the Northern Hemisphere. About half a billion died from the immediate nukes, the rest from starvation and nuclear fallout. These wargames are what caused US military policy with regards to the USSR to take a sharp turn towards de-escalation, and within a decade there'd be McDonalds and Donald Duck in the USSR, and the entire nation would collapse.

By contrast we went for force in Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, and so on endlessly. And all outcomes have been catastrophic from not only a humanitarian point of view, but even from a morality-free geopolitical point of view. And those were conflicts with nations who were ostensibly incapable of fighting back.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Prophet

ChumpGPT• 2 years ago

Good. The only thing that can create a lasting peace with authoritarian regimes abound is facing them from a position of strength.

Problem is the USA doesn't. You have one party that wants to abandon its partners and has no interest in supporting Freedom and Democracy and you have another party that is so hesitant and non committal that it only encourages authoritarian regimes. It is playing out around the entire world with North Korea, Iran, terrorists, Russia, China, etc.

Unfortunately the USA has no one who can project strength and decisiveness. Just look at what is happening with Ukraine, a good lesson that the West has no resolve or willingness to let Ukraine win and end the war. We're screwed until someone comes along that is right for the job ahead and unfortunately there are no good candidates currently.

Ancapistani2• 2 years ago

You have one party that wants to abandon its partners and has no interest in supporting Freedom and Democracy and you have another party that is so hesitant and non committal that it only encourages authoritarian regimes. It is playing out around the entire world with North Korea, Iran, terrorists, Russia, China, etc.

This is my favorite post in this thread so far, because I don't know which party you're assigning to which side!

I by no means intend that as a slight, by the way. It's striking to me how easily statements with clear meaning to one person can be viewed in with completely opposite meaning by the "other" faction.

Just look at what is happening with Ukraine, a good lesson that the West has no resolve or willingness to let Ukraine win and end the war.

I'll be a bit more specific about my own views for this part.

It seems to me that the Democratic Party vocally and fairly consistently supports Ukraine, but that their measured approach and desire not to escalate is only extending the conflict. Meanwhile, the Republican Party seems split on the issue, and their Presidential candidate rather milquetoast when it comes to setting a clear policy proposal in this specific case.

So, yeah - I'm about 70% sure you and I are on opposite sides politically for most issues, but if we constrain the topic to the Russo-Ukrainian war, there really isn't a clear preference for either party. The choices seem to be "incur significant additional debt to keep Ukraine in the fight, but not enough to end the war" and "hope Trump chooses to fully support Ukraine if elected, but not be sure if he will or not".

US politics have been depressing my entire life, but this election seems to be particularly unsatisfactory for everyone involved, regardless of faction.

josefritzishere• 2 years ago

Like the TSA, spaceforce is just another government employment program. I'd prefer we waste less on the performative function and just pay more in entitlements.

alephnerd3• 2 years ago

Geospatial intelligence collection and analysis is extremely important, but before the USSF, this capability and mission was disjointed across multiple branches.

Furthermore, where should missiles lie? This distracts from the Army, Navy, and AF's core missions.

This is why ALL countries are constituting their own "Space Force" or "Rocket Force" - to manage missiles and geospatial intel gathering.

mistrial9• 2 years ago

one quarter of countries worldwide do not make or publish basic national statistics. Countries are political-economic entities and carry huge historical technical debt.. bombastic declarations about "all countries" are hallmark to shallow thinking

michaelt3• 2 years ago

Back when nuclear weapons were relevant, every service wanted them. The air force wanted bombers and ground-based missiles. The navy wanted submarine-launched missiles. Even the army got in on it, with nuclear artillery.

Why have we waited until missiles are fading from relevance, years after the end of the cold war, and only now decided they need their own branch?

howeyc4• 2 years ago

US Defense spending is a US employment program. I really wish we would drop the pretense and just make it a full employment jobs program. Anyone that wants to work should be able to get a job.

The private sector can then get employees by paying above the minimum wage offered by the defense department job program.

m1012• 2 years ago

This would be a terrible idea for all sorts of reasons. I will start with a few questions.

How would you determine the wage level of the govt?

How would you differentiate pay at the govt?

How would you prevent govt sector bloat and excessive spending?

How would you ensure people put in the work required at the govt if they were guaranteed a job?

JumpCrisscross• 2 years ago

US Defense spending is a US employment program

Out of curiosity, have you or anyone you know served in any armed forces?

klyrs• 2 years ago

The private sector can then get employees by paying above the minimum wage offered by the defense department job program.

Well that's one way to grow a private army to overthrow your country: capitalist incentives

petre• 2 years ago

"In 2018, 71% of young people in the United States would not be able to join the military if they wanted to."

Source: CDC.

abduhl2• 2 years ago

What is the substantive difference between a government employment program and entitlements in your view? Is it that people don't have to do the performative function of working for an entitlement?

Note that Social Security, pretty much the leading entitlement program, requires that you pay into it before being able to draw.

delfinom• 2 years ago

Space Force is an actual military branch now just like the Air Force, Navy or Army. It isn't an employment program because it's no different than the other branches. You have to go through all the standard army training, bootcamp, rules, etc.

meepmorp• 2 years ago

They're a branch of the military, preparing for war is literally their raison d'être.

bovermyer3• 2 years ago

Yeah, I'm not sure why this is news.

Maybe it's because up until recently, space has been tacitly off-limits for warfare... but then I remember the Star Wars program and I wonder if I'm misremembering.

SoftTalker• 2 years ago

You may be thinking of arms conntrol treaties to not test nuclear weapons in space.

stableappendix• 2 years ago

Reminds me of a presentation I recently watched by Dr. Pippa Malmgren, which reminded me of space as an active domain for warfare:

"Discover how nations' expenditures on space programs, telescopes and interplanetary communications are shifting balance of power and influencing 21st century warfare strategies. This is an eye-opening dive into the terrestrial impact of humanity's cosmic curiosity and interstellar reach."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvsTHj-MNAc

ImJamal• 2 years ago

The article is paywalled so I didn't read it, but isn't the point of the military to prepare for war and to actually engage in war? Is that not what the military is currently doing?

bookofjoe2• 2 years ago

Here are two options so you can read it:

1. https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/americas-spac... (posted three hours ago)

2. https://archive.is/ZDykj (posted 23 minutes ago)

netule• 2 years ago

https://archive.is/ZDykj

slowhand09• 2 years ago

Chang resecured himself to the space station and made his way to the main hatch while Huan brought Tiangong-3’s weapons online. The station crew had realized they were moving to war footing twelve hours ago when Huan switched off the live viz feed of their activities. But it still felt slightly unreal. Once the taikonauts were all inside the station, Huan powered up the weapons module. The chemical oxygen iodine laser, or COIL, design had originally been developed by the U.S. Air Force in the late 1970s. It had even been flown on a converted 747 jumbo jet so the laser ’s ability to shoot down missiles in midair could be tested. But the Americans had ultimately decided that using chemicals in enclosed spaces to power lasers was too dangerous. The Directorate saw it differently. Two modules away from the crew, a toxic mix of hydrogen peroxide and potassium hydroxide was being blended with gaseous chlorine and molecular iodine. This was really it, thought Chang as he watched the power indicators turn red. There was no turning back once the chemicals had been mixed and the excited oxygen began to transfer its energy to the weapon. They would have forty-five minutes to act and then the power would be spent. The firing protocol for mankind’s first wartime shots in space was well rehearsed. The targets marked in the firing solution had been identified, prioritized, and tracked for well over a year in increasingly rigorous drills the crew eventually realized were not just to support war games down on Earth. The long hours spent in the lab would finally pay off. “Ready to commence firing sequence,” said Huan. “Confirm?” One by one, the other taikonauts checked in from their weapons stations. Chang touched the photo taped to the wall in front of him. His fingers lingered on the image of his beaming wife and their grinning eight-year-old son. The smiling Ming, missing his two front teeth, wore his father ’s blue air force officer ’s hat. What the photo did not show was how upset his wife had been when he’d given Ming that hat the night before. She thought it made her son look like a prop in a Directorate propaganda piece. He moved his hand away from the photo and began his part of the operation, monitoring the targeting sequence. He startled even Huan when he cried out, “Ready!” For years, military planners had fretted about antisatellite threats from ground-launched missiles, because that was how both the Americans and the Soviets had intended to take down each other ’s satellite networks during the Cold War. More recently, the Directorate had fed this fear by developing its own antisatellite missiles and then alternating between missile tests and arms-control negotiations that went nowhere, keeping the focus on the weapons based below. The Americans should have looked up. Chang snuck another look at the photo and caught Huan pausing, his trigger finger lingering above the red firing button. He appeared to be savoring the moment. Then Huan gently pressed the button. A quiet hum pervaded the module. No crash of cannon or screams of death. Only the steady purr of a pump signified that the station was now at war. The first target was WGS-4, a U.S. Air Force wideband gapfiller satellite. Shaped like a box with two solar wings, the 7,600-pound satellite had entered space in 2012 on top of a Delta 4 rocket launched from Cape Canaveral. Costing over three hundred million dollars, the satellite offered the U.S. military and its allies 4.875 GHz of instantaneous switchable bandwidth, allowing it to move massive amounts of data. Through it ran the communications for everything from U.S. Air Force satellites to U.S. Navy submarines. It was also a primary node for the U.S. Space Command. The Pentagon had planned to put up a whole constellation of these satellites to make the network less vulnerable to attack, but contractor cost overruns had kept the number down to just six. The space station’s chemical-powered laser fired a burst of energy that, if it were visible light instead of infrared, would have been a hundred thousand times brighter than the sun. Five hundred and twenty kilometers away, the first burst hit the satellite with a power roughly equivalent to a welding torch’s. It melted a hole in WGS-4’s external atmospheric shielding and then burned into its electronic guts. Chang watched as Huan clicked open a red pen and made a line on the wall next to him, much like a World War I ace decorating his biplane to mark a kill. The scripted moment had been ordered from below, a key scene for the documentary that would be made of the operation, a triumph that would be watched by billions.

-Ghost Fleet: A Novel of the Next World War by P.W.Singer and August Cole https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2J8BG-XlCfeNHlYbWN4aVhDQlE...

fragmede2• 2 years ago

As soon as it came over the horizon I could tell that its orbit had shifted radically. As I closed the distance, I could see why. Their escape pod had blown its hatch, and because it was still docked to the primary airlock, the entire station had depressurized in seconds. As a precaution, I requested docking clearance. I got nothing. As I came aboard, I could see that even though the station was clearly large enough for a crew of seven or eight, it only had the bunk space and personal kits for two. I found the Yang packed with emergency supplies, enough food, water, and O2 candles for at least five years. What I couldn’t figure out at first was why. There was no scientific equipment aboard, no intelligence-gathering assets. It was almost like the Chinese government had sent these two men into space for no other purpose than to exist. Fifteen minutes into my float about, I found the first of several scuttling charges. This space station was little more than a giant Orbital Denial Vehicle. If those charges were to detonate, the debris from a four-hundred-metric-ton space station would not only be enough to damage or destroy any other orbiting platform, but any future space launch would be grounded for years. It was a “Scorched Space” policy, “if we can’t have it, neither can anyone else.”

-World War Z, by Max Brooks.

mapt2• 2 years ago

Won't be much point in space war if LEO is filled with space debris before the war even begins. The Chinese constellations going up at 800-1200km altitude are more than sufficient to destroy safe access to space for centuries, before you even consider the fact that their upper stages appear to explode into thousands of pieces every single launch after releasing their payload.

Every hundred kilometers of altitude increases orbital lifespan by about a factor of ten. AFAICT Elon voluntarily reduced his proposed orbital altitudes, apparently without any pressure from regulators, when it was recognized that debris from 20-year-old SpaceX satellites would likely destroy 1-year-old SpaceX satellites reliably enough to cost SpaceX debilitating amounts of money. Even at ~550km, the concerns are significant for a 10^5 satellite swarm.

Conversely, if we load up on SEP and fly a billion satellites (with a B) at 300km altitude, shooting each other with buckshot, it's safe to fly again in a very short period.

If we can't get some kind of international agreement on restricting mega-constellations to very low altitudes, with a quickness, and with a consensus strong enough to hold during wartime and in the face of competing profit interests, then the game is lost before we even begin.

Mid to Upper LEO is uniquely uncompromising to a race that refuses to cooperate with each other; A war up there would have qualities of MAD, but even a peacetime competition is sufficient to lock us out.

marssaxman• 2 years ago

What is SEP? Presumably unrelated to "simplified employee pension", which was the only thing a search turned up...

mapt2• 2 years ago

Solar electric propulsion.

If you want to be really safe, you need to fly so low that you have to exert a few millinewtons of steady thrust to overcome inertia lost to atmospheric drag. The natural orbital lifespan is less millennia or centuries, and more months or weeks; this is what keeps debris out of your path and out of having significant figures in any exponential growth equations.

Ion thrusters can now do this continuously for a decade from quite small, inexpensive argon propellant tanks, and that sort of thing now flies on every Starlink satellite already for orbital adjustments, albeit with undersized propellant tanks.

Do this right, low enough, and you can run something like a global cellular network with a million nodes without even having to think about avoidance maneuvers. Fly too high with too many satellites, and no amount of avoidance maneuvers per day will be enough.

If you want to be conservative about human spaceflight, ban all large constellations above or at ISS altitude (or some arbitrary safety altitude); It's virtually impossible for debris to go higher, while all high debris will ultimately decay into lower debris.

America's Space Force Is Preparing for the Risk of War

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