Fluoride at twice the recommended limit is linked to lower IQ in kids

https://apnews.com/article/fluoride-water-brain-neurology-iq-0a671d2de3b386947e2bd5a661f437a5

by geox • 2 years ago

81 42 2 years ago

The 324-page report did not reach a conclusion about the risks of lower levels of fluoride, saying more study is needed. It also did not answer what high levels of fluoride might do to adults.

It also does not address the effects to children (and/or adults) when exposed to additional neurotoxins.

What's often not mentioned in the context of Fluoride's "success" is how improved diets have contributed to oral health.

phs318u2• 2 years ago

I think the assumption that diets have materially improved needs to be clarified and challenged. I very much doubt that in the West, our diets have 'improved' since (say) the 50s/60s. The increase in sugars in just about everything, the increase in consumption of highly processed foods and acidic drinks - none of this is good for oral health.

chiefalchemist4• 2 years ago

You underestimate food insecurity in the 50s, especially at the lower end of the economic scale. Heck, it's still an issue today. Worse in the sense, that diets are under nourished *and* packed with sugar. Let's not forget meth.

weberer• 2 years ago

Back when people would regularly die of pellagra? Diets have absolutely improved since then.

advisedwang• 2 years ago

There's plenty of studies that compare locales with fluoride in the water to those that don't, eliminating time-based correlations like improving diet. There are other things to criticize in the data though (most of the data shows results with children, and not a lot that accounts for fluoride toothpaste).

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ipd.12928

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26092033/

aurizon• 2 years ago

There is a lot of anti fluoride hysteria that wants to eliminate water fluoridation, which has eliminated a cash cow for dentists = frequent cavities = fillings. The rise in fluoride made dental incomes decline as dental health improved. (sugar in soda drinks kept them alive). This paper notes that cleaning teeth and applying a topical solution and holding for 5-10 minutes and then washing is best. High fluoride toothpaste is also better than adding to water. The water method is automatic, while tooth painting = dental visit costs. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK587342/ There are areas with high natural fluoride, that can stain teeth, but there is no apparent reduction in IQ in those areas. Most free fluoride is grabbed by teeth from the blood and is laid down as hydroxy fluoro apatite where it makes the tooth structure more competent as a solid by minutely filling the matrix so it has fewer flaws that bacterial acids can use to open gaps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorapatite

pcdoodle• 2 years ago

nih.gov also has studies showing the opposite. It's fair game to question IMO.

zahlman• 2 years ago

If dentists are so interested in challenging the water fluoridation narrative so that they can do more fillings - why do they offer that tooth painting?

TeaBrain3• 2 years ago

Probably because cavities aren't a cash cow for dentists. More expensive crown and veneer procedures, and other elective procedures, are the cash cows.

ffgjgf1• 2 years ago

Is drinking fluoride somehow more effective than just using toothpaste with fluoride ?

adrian_b• 2 years ago

I have never seen any study showing that the fluoride from the blood can have any influence on the teeth.

The enamel of the teeth does not have blood vessels, so it cannot "grab fluoride" from blood. As far as it is known, the biomineralized calcium phosphate is always hydroxyapatite. When the hydroxyapatite of the enamel of the teeth is in contact with a solution containing fluoride ions, there is a passive ion exchange process (i.e. not mediated by biological enzymes) which results in partial replacement of the more soluble hydroxyapatite with the less soluble fluorapatite.

There is no doubt that using a tooth paste with fluoride or washing the mouth with a fluoride solution can prevent caries.

However there has never been any evidence whatsoever that drinking fluoride has any beneficial effect, beyond that of the teeth being washed by the fluoride solution before ingesting it. On the contrary, it is well known that too much fluoride in the drinking water interferes with bone growth, as it happens in some countries where the drinking water is naturally rich in fluoride.

bofadeez• 2 years ago

Yeah that's the whole point. Who thought teeth? lol

pengaru• 2 years ago

Tangentially: I own property in Wonder Valley by 29 Palms, where the municipal water district received a fluoride levels variance and federal assistance in building a water treatment facility to remove excess naturally occurring fluoride from the groundwater.

I dunno what's worse, the excess fluoride or hexavalent chromium...

https://29palmswater.com/wp-content/uploads/Consumer-Confide...

iancmceachern• 2 years ago

Definitely the chromium

euroderf• 2 years ago

Some areas of Finland have lots of fluoride in the groundwater, caused by rapakivi granite. Which also has uranium/radon. Healthy teeth, healthy glow.

Argonaut998• 2 years ago

I think Finland also has the highest IQ in Europe.

NotGMan• 2 years ago

Instead of not eating that much carbs which rot teeth we instead try to work around the issue by poisoning children with flouride.

Can't stop eating those carbs tho, too addictive!

ben_w3• 2 years ago

Plenty of rotten teeth before we had easy access to addictive cheap carbs.

tmn2• 2 years ago

Animals seem to do well enough. Sure there is the occasional issue. But it seems pretty clear the modern diet is the significant factor.

Ylpertnodi• 2 years ago

Try not eating carbs for a week. Then walk up some stairs.

anonbanker• 2 years ago

pretty easy for me. exclusively Carnivore for over a year now.

oldgradstudent• 2 years ago

Wait another week and you'll be fine. Anyone who's ever done keto for any length of time knows that.

hirvi74• 2 years ago

I grew up on spring water from a (small?) cavern system in my backyard. People can say what they want about fluoride, but I truly believe it makes quite the difference in dental health based on my experiences.

copperx2• 2 years ago

I'd rather keep my IQ points than have a decent smile.

foxyv2• 2 years ago

How Poor Oral Hygiene Could Affect Your Child’s IQ?

https://www.ba-dentist.com/how-poor-oral-hygiene-could-affec....

TeaBrain3• 2 years ago

It's largely not controversial that it is beneficial to dental health in low concentrations. The issues arise when the concentrations are higher, due to fluoride's neurotoxic potential and it's potential to compete with iodine.

Fluoride at twice the recommended limit is linked to lower IQ in kids

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