What are great international locations to work at?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41187828

by Python3267 • 2 years ago

18 46 2 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I'm ~4.5 years into my career and I'm thinking about doing something outside of the US for my next job. I'm looking to jump in about half a year, so right now is the time to figure this stuff out.

I've got no responsibilities, no kids or SO at the moment, so now would be the perfect time in my career to do something wild. Where do people recommend for culture, outdoors, tech, and /or ease of visas?

For example I was thinking about New Zealand.

dotcoma• 2 years ago

Or Norway. South Africa. Israel (Tel Aviv) if you like beaches. Go for it.

Python32677• 2 years ago

I've heard of a lot of people heading up to Norway recently. What's your experience up there?

erkzswe• 2 years ago

Are you aware of current situation in Israel? It seems like it's very dangerous to live there right now.

aristofun2• 2 years ago

Actually statistically speaking you’re safer in Israel then in the safest US state. All things considered. Even during escalations.

Unless you live near hot spots.

Mainly because of a very low crime rate and decent medical services.

But I don’t suggest going there to work for other reasons: crazy expensive and very bad service, quality of living. Unles you are a billionaire.

zerosun• 2 years ago

South Africa

Python32677• 2 years ago

Interesting, anything specific you like about South Africa? I've gotten the impression that it is a bit dangerous.

GianFabien2• 2 years ago

So are UK, Ukraine, Middle East. The AU govt has released a travel advisory cautioning travel to UK !

codingdave• 2 years ago

It is a bit dangerous, yes. All the way down at 130th in ranking of the safest countries.

Of course, the USA is 131st.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-co...

d13• 2 years ago

It has the world’s worst unemployment rate and, depending on how you slice the stats, the worst crime rate.

tithe• 2 years ago

Tallinn, Estonia; good technology sector, too.

wojciii4• 2 years ago

The good: Estonians. The bad: The big scary neighbour.

titoktok• 2 years ago

the good: lots of trees and lakes. the bad: depressive winters

spacemanspiff01• 2 years ago

The Finn's are terrifying, held off the Russian invasions multiple times with a much smaller population, and were able to stay independent despite a 1000+ km border.

ChumpGPT• 2 years ago

You can't just go anywhere and work. You need to hold a work VISA. If you go anywhere in Europe, you're not allowed to stay longer than 90 days in a 180 day period. Every country will require a work VISA and they are not that easy to get. Expect a huge pay cut compared to a US salary.

I suppose if you're self employed you can go anywhere but there are legal limits to the time you are allowed to stay in almost every country. This is not a planet where one can just work and live where ever they want.

Want to do something wild, Ukraine's International Legion is looking for people. It seems to meet your requirements of culture, outdoors, tech, and /or ease of visas.

wojciii4• 2 years ago

Enlist today!

Use your drone tech skills to kill Russians!

That's a bit much for my taste..

danschuller2• 2 years ago

A tech worker can get a job with a visa pretty much anywhere that has a sector.

Python32677• 2 years ago

I know about that, part of the question is figuring out what nations have easier visa requirements.

gabriel_dev• 2 years ago

If you have a remote dev job in the US then any Asia country would be great. Just need to do some visa runs every couple months and that's it. Low entry barrier and fun. Not a local job though but much better salary/cost of living ratio. Also if the chosen country is say Thailand - positive overall vibe.

GianFabien2• 2 years ago

Having lived in both NZ and AU I would suggest AU has more opportunities if you are looking to find a local job. Must check work visa conditions re: age, qualifications, duration, etc.

nicbou• 2 years ago

You would need to be a lot more specific. This is a big planet. Have you travelled a bit before? Are you comfortable with not speaking the local language? How do you feel about Asia? Are you comfortable with being a visible minority? With benevolent racism? With living in an enclave with other well-off people? Is bike infrastructure important to you? How much bureaucracy are you willing to deal with? Do you want a high income or a low cost of living? Do you want something familiar or completely different? Can you handle extremely hot summers? Long and dark winters? What kind of nature are you looking for? Do you want something a little new, or a Big Adventure? What kind of work do you want to do there?

Think about what you want, and narrow it down from there.

steve1977• 2 years ago

Doing what?

Python32677• 2 years ago

Software Engineering

petargyurov2• 2 years ago

I've got no responsibilities, no kids or SO at the moment, so now would be the perfect time in my career to do something wild.

Perfect opportunity to NOT work for a bit. If you can afford it, go backpacking. Solo or otherwise. You will gain direct insight into where you want to live/work. Of course, when travelling, everything is seen through rose-tinted glasses, so bear in mind that the reality of living somewhere new is always more complicated than what you see when "on holiday".

m463• 2 years ago

the reality of living somewhere new is always more complicated than what you see when "on holiday".

Perfect opportunity to work international for a bit. :)

Honestly, I wonder where the line is. You want to immerse yourself in another culture, but not flounder/drown either.

Might be better to work at a more similar culture (ie us->england) as a stepping stone to a challenging change (us->asia)

Python32677• 2 years ago

Yeah I've been thinking on this one and Asia would be too wild for me so Europe would be the destination.

Xen9• 2 years ago

Not working—the most valuable skill of our era.

ogou• 2 years ago

The first criteria is whether you will be remote for a U.S. company or working within the region you're moving. That will have a huge impact on your options. If you're going for local work, keep in mind that international tech sectors can vary widely. Some countries have modern economies but underdeveloped tech industries. They tend to heavily recruit foreign workers. You'll be treated like royalty, but that doesn't mean it's interesting or fun to work there. Others have a large supply of tech workers but poor conditions for actual tech companies, like Poland and France.

Also, many countries and cultures have completely different work ethics and expectations. You may be used to fairly loose structures in terms of hours and management hierarchies. Many countries still expect tech workers to work like engineers from 20+ years ago. That means all day in your chair, long hours, and reporting to a manager that is not invested in your personal experience. American tech workers are often shocked when they land in these places.

In the opposite direction, if you work with many western Europeans, you'll be surprised at how some of them aren't very work oriented. That may be frustrating to people used to American companies. Also, communication is very different. I worked with an Italian engineer who got very loud very fast in any tech debate. It took me a while to get used to it, but I did when I understood that was just his background. He wasn't angry or confrontational, his previous jobs all communicated like that.

Those these kinds of differences exist around the world and can be very difficult for some folks. But, lots people also thrive in those environments. Your mileage may vary.

A small tip I have offered to people is to search for "relocation + [your main language/framework] + [region]" in LinkedIn job search. It will give you a general sense of the demand for particular skillsets industry directions in those areas. It's not foolproof, but usually leads to some interesting locations.

meiraleal• 2 years ago

I'm having the time of my life working for a US company and living in the beautiful city of Rio de Janeiro. Highly recommended!

aristofun2• 2 years ago

After north america being a new hotel:

Europe - old hotel Middle east - beduin tent Asia - buddhist temple with a twist (twist depends on the specific place)

Donnow about the rest.

siamese_puff• 2 years ago

Can anyone speak to their experiences leaving the US and working for and within an EU country?

olegious• 2 years ago

Worked in Paris for a year, great work environment, wonderful work/life balance and benefits, smart co-workers, shit pay.

danschuller2• 2 years ago

Singapore - great food, easy travel to the rest of Asia, very safe, English speaking, hires a lot of tech workers internationally. However it is hot and humid.

mstaoru• 2 years ago

I looked at Singapore as a relocation target, but I noticed that post-covid silly money from PRC nationals fleeing the country has pushed the rent and other expenses way too high. The software sector jobs are also 90% either finance or crypto.

markus_zhang• 2 years ago

My mandatory criterias:

- I can speak the language and preferable have some contacts. Contacts don't have to be friends and Internet random people are fine, but they need to be locals to give me some information;

- The government does not have very stringent control over Internet. I don't want to have someone break into my door just because I reposted someone else's Tweet or voiced my concern;

- The city should have good hospitals, reasonably well public transit and other infrastructures. All public service should be of reasonable price to foreigners. They can and probably should be more expensive than the costs charged to the locals, but if it's 10x then it's too much.

- The local people don't dislike strangers;

- Crime rate is reasonable and I should not be afraid to walk after 9 p.m.;

- Living expense is lower than my resident country, otherwise it's just going to be a short vacation;

- It doesn't have large cockroaches;

Optional ones:

- It rains very little;

- It has public computers;

- It has a large electronics retail market;

I know some places that satisfy all mandatories except one, and some optional ones.

mindwork2• 2 years ago

Amsterdam or Berlin in Europe

Python32677• 2 years ago

Is the visa process easy for those two?

mindwork2• 2 years ago

Germany had a Blue Card visa, supposedly it's easy to obtain. As for Amsterdam, my only piece of knowledge is that booking.com is a big supporter of visas in there

alexmolas• 2 years ago

Barcelona. It has good weather all the year. A great start-up environment. Great WLF. Great people. And a lot of things to do after work. Geographically it's placed in one of the best spots in the world. In winter you can go to ski in the Pyrenees, and in summer you can go to the beach yo Costa Brava or Mallorca/Menorca

tinkertrain• 2 years ago

Barcelona is great! Lived there for 4.5 years, beautiful city, amazing food and wine, not as much culture as say Madrid, but you can get there in 2 hours by high speed train for cheap!

Also, great public transport, biking infrastructure, _very_ walkable, they've made incredible progress here by restricting cars with initiatives like the "super blocks", I lived near where they put the first ones and loved it (I'm quite anti-car in general though).

It does get too busy in the summer with tourists but just avoid the worst areas (like a New Yorker wouldn't spend time in Time Square for example, I almost never went to "Las Ramblas") or spend part of the summer somewhere else in Spain like most Spanish do, at the beach or escape the heat in "the green Spain" (Asturias, Coruña, etc).

Also, Spain has recently released a Digital Nomad Visa, so you could get a remote job in the US and move there.

ffhhj• 2 years ago

Costa Rica

lancewiggs• 2 years ago

I'm a New Zealander who lived in the US for ~5 years amongst other places, and have been back here for 20 years. I worked or studied in a new location, used the money earned to travel for a few months (up to 2 years), and then started afresh in a new location. It was an amazing way to combine learning and great international travel experiences with career progression.

Some learnings to consider

1: Fit in a box. Accountants, teachers, nurses, doctors are easy jobs to travel with, once they understand how to get local accreditation. So for tech/engineering jobs it's good to have a very clear definition and track record of what you are and for that to be in demand. (Even better - have your own business and operate from anywhere, and/or study abroad)

2: Be in the right time and place. Cities and countries have a sweetspot for life stages, and also for political and economic cycles. I got to be in the UK doing the 90s, and US during the dot com boom, and Australia in a mining boom. Go where it is easy and fun.

3: Balance work and travel. Work hard, but enjoy the location while you are there. But if work is all consuming then take a lot of time between destinations to travel locally and internationally.

Come to New Zealand! We have a number of ways to get in. At one end is the working holiday visa (1), which is available to a few countries, costs NZ$420 to apply and gets up to 12m work. At the other end is the Active Investor Plus Visa (2) (Our fund is on the eligible list). And there are the usual options in-between (3).

(1) https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/visas/visa... (2) https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/visas/visa... (3) https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas

Python32677• 2 years ago

Thank you, this is wonderful!

What are great international locations to work at?

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