Gemini can't be disabled on Google Docs

https://twitter.com/kevinbankston/status/1811075836558114968

by h1fra • 2 years ago

60 51 2 years ago

twitter.com

aniviacat• 2 years ago

The title does not match what is said in the post. The post implies there is indeed a setting to turn it off.

baud147258• 2 years ago

except the setting doesn't seem to work cf https://x.com/KevinBankston/status/1811194932931027298

whoitwas• 2 years ago

Is there a setting or not? Should we migrate from docs? Is it time to finally cut the cord officially de-Googlify?

michaelmior• 2 years ago

Does it matter that much if there is a setting or not? Google already has your documents anyway. They're not being used for training either way.

yawpitch2• 2 years ago

Possession of a file doesn’t imply that Google was reading that file, and absent a very limited set of criminal actions for which a search warrant might be issued there’s always been a reasonable expectation that Google was not reading your files… now Google is reading that file, apparently by default.

barnabee• 2 years ago

It matters to me.

I don’t use Google to create personal documents precisely because I can’t trust or verify that their apps aren’t doing more than provide storage, versioning, conflict resolution, and an editing UI without my permission.

That said, I think it’s way past time to give up on hoping to trust a cloud / “big tech” provider.

There are now only three models for applications I’m happy to use, and I try to do everything in one of those three where possible:

1) Verifiably end-to-end encrypted. This is the only option way I can get comfortable with cloud software.

2) Self hosted applications.

3) Local first applications with “dumb filestore” data syncing via a provider of my choice (likely self hosted).

In all cases I have a strong preference for truly open source (avoiding VC funded open core weirdness etc.) and try to donate more than the equivalent subscription or purchase price for proprietary alternatives to the projects I find that meet my needs.

viraptor2• 2 years ago

A best time to get off Google was before the previous problems. The second best is now. (applies after every Google issue)

Sayrus• 2 years ago

Title is sensationalized. According to the thread, Gemini is enabled only after opening Gemini. Ingestion is enabled until Gemini is closed.

OK, more testing and I think I've figured it out (and it's still bad!). It seems that if you've ever clicked the Gemini button for a type of document then it remains open whenever you open another of that type--and therefore automatically ingests and summarizes it. So, e.g...

rezonant• 2 years ago

What is the problem here? Google already has your document, all they are doing with Gemini is running it through a bunch of transformers and spitting back some information. The act of sending input into an LLM does not itself train the LLM on that data (these systems don't "learn" via execution of normal input/output).

Is the concern that Google would consider your use of Gemini on this document as consent to use it for future training?

zarzavat• 2 years ago

Unless explicitly promised otherwise, the assumption is always that anything being passed to a LLM API may be retained for various reasons. That’s the expectation that’s been set by the industry.

delusional• 2 years ago

I would presume that google has already trained Gemini on all the documents.

fauigerzigerk3• 2 years ago

Agreed, but as I understand it they do make that promise:

"We do not use your Workspace data to train or improve the underlying generative AI and large language models that power Gemini, Search, and other systems outside of Workspace without permission."

https://support.google.com/docs/answer/14615114?hl=en

Edit: I believe that this "without permission" caveat refers to experimental things like Workspace Labs where you have to give them that permission if you decide to join.

Ferret7446• 2 years ago

Why would that be limited to passing it to an LLM and not just passing it to any server? If Google wanted to use your data for training, they would just... do that? No Gemini needed

austhrow743• 2 years ago

Sure. That's also the assumption when you upload your private information to someone else's computer. Except for the "unless explicitly promised otherwise" part.

viraptor2• 2 years ago

You should have the control of your information per use case / purpose. The ad networks are also Google's property - would you be fine with the Adsense looking at all your private documents? GDPR got that right - you consent to a specific usage, not to a free-for-all.

michaelt• 2 years ago

From the user's perspective:

1. Some people (e.g. some artists) don't like generative AI as a matter of principle, seeing it as soulless, corporate, and entirely trained on stolen data.

2. Many people resent Clippy-style popup features. They appear at the most inconvenient times, and everyone knows they're mostly for the benefit of the product manager with a user count KPI. And the harder they get pushed, the more people resent them.

3. The distinction between things-known-from-training-data, things-known-from-context and things-known-from-RAG and so on is pretty opaque to most users - and not clearly guaranteed by the documentation. If it's an assistant that can schedule reminders, can find things in your e-mails and google drive, and it promises "Personal Results" where "your communication requests will be used to improve your experience with Gemini" the distinctions are pretty ambiguous.

4. The LLM industry norm is to play fast and loose with training data.

cynicalsecurity• 2 years ago

Google is not a privacy company. Don't use their services if you are looking for privacy.

wcoenen2• 2 years ago

This just weird Twitter rage. The user seems to think the private information in their tax return will leak, just because Gemini tried to summarize it.

To back this up, they reference the story about Gemini chats "leaking" on the public internet. What actually happened there was that people were creating publicly viewable chats via gemini.google.com/share/ links, and some of those got posted on social media and were indexed.

nitinreddy88• 2 years ago

Its not the matter of getting leaked. Without my consent, reading my documents to do something should be illegal

wcoenen2• 2 years ago

Gemini is "reading" your documents in the same sense that google servers are "reading" your documents in order to show them in your browser. Gemini is not a person and won't remember what it has "read".

If you don't want google to handle your documents, then don't put your documents in Google docs.

wodenokoto• 2 years ago

You gave them your consent when you opened the document in Google Docs.

And it is not like Gemini is the first NLP model to be reading your google docs. Google have had one of the most advanced spell/grammar checkers reading through your docs for years now.

steve1977• 2 years ago

One could argue that by using Google Docs, you are giving your consent. If you don't want that, stop using this service.

hiddencost• 2 years ago

Try some empathy? A user is upset and scared. AI is scary and hard to understand. We owe our users a sense of safety and trust.

robertlagrant• 2 years ago

It's not clear who you're replying to, but this isn't a conversation with a person. What's being discussed - away from the person who published this - are the truth claims in the post.

BSDobelix• 2 years ago

Try some empathy?

NO! Don't put your private documents on someone else's computer, that's easy.

But if you do, don't put it on the hard drive of a company that makes money from your personal data for advertising, it sounds almost childish to explain.

fragmede• 2 years ago

It’s disabled on $JOB and my personal Google Workplace. Author opted into some bard thing and then forgot about it.

hexage1814• 2 years ago

Don't use Google if you don't want Google to know what you are doing.

Gant12• 2 years ago

"Gemini is your always-on AI assistant across Google Workspace" So user buys a product without even reading the product page, then complains about product? m'kay

rvnx• 2 years ago

Except if was added recently, and most users are long-time users.

Gant12• 2 years ago

Gemini is an add-on. No matter the current workspace plan, one has to sign up for it

egorfine• 2 years ago

Rationally I understand that no training is happening and this is no different than slicing a substring for preview purposes.

Emotionally it makes my blood boil though. I am absolutely with the author.

I had to leave Sentry for crash reports because they did report things to me I have never asked them to watch for in the first place. Same vibe.

kkfx• 2 years ago

Hem... How "private" can be something existing on someone else computer, not just as mere data, but also the code to use and visualize them?

31337Logic• 2 years ago

I never use Google docs. This is a great reminder of why I have no reason to start. Thanks.

Gemini can't be disabled on Google Docs

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